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Greetings!

So I'm currently starting the process of sourcing parts for a Praetor miniature I hope to use as a leader of my Blood Angels forces once I dip my toe into 30k.

I'm going to be going with the newly revealed assault oriented rite of war with my force, lots of Jump Pack infantry, possibly a flyer or two, etc.

I'm looking at using a combination of Sanguinary Guard parts and various other plastics from the Blood Angels range to make a truly unique looking model to lead my 30k forces. I also hope to eventually get my hands on a metal Astorath the Grim jump pack to create a mid-flight pose for my Praetor. Fingers crossed on that end.

That said, I've got most of the parts sorted (sans astorath's jump pack, and a suitable sword for the left arm) and want to know if the following build is possible and legal before I set about actually modeling and painting up this Praetor. I don't own any of the Horus Heresy rule books as yet, so I come here seeking aid as far as the build I have in my head, it's legality, and also what this model will cost points wise (in total, not concerned with individual points costs of specific weapons and wargear of course, but would like to know what the total point cost of the Praetor would be).

Without further ado, here's the Praetor build I'd like to run.

Praetor - Blood Angels
Wargear: Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, Inferno Pistol (in lieu of a Plasma Pistol per the new BA rules update), Iron Halo(? Is this part of his natural wargear or is it purchased as an upgrade?), Frag & Krak Grenades (? Default equipment?), and for the other weapon, the Relic Blood Angels ap2 sword that has soul blaze, fleshbane, fear and blind.

That's the build idea I'm working with. I do have one additional question for those in the know.

Can a Praetor carry multiple relics, providing one of those relics does not replace a weapon? Would it be wise to include one of the 'generic' relics in lieu of the Iron Halo, such as the Warp Field 3++ invulnerable relic?

Thanks in advance for any and all info and feedback folks. I look forward to getting these questions answered so I can begin the modeling and eventually start the painting up.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

ok, a few things:

1) your loadout looks fine, you DO need to buy the Iron Halo
2) I wouldn't rely on relics. since the new FAQ you need to get the other players permission
3) Yes you can stack up on relics

Honestly though, your loadout would work fine since the sword can also be a paragon blade. One thing that I love to bring on my praetor is a paragon blade/power fist since they are both specialist weapons, you get more attacks AND versatility. Beyond that, looks like an okay loadout. I would look at the 1d4chan page on the space marine legions and see what you can figure out.

You could instead use the Blade of Perdition, a Master Crafted, two-handed AP2 S User Power Sword

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You could instead use the Blade of Perdition, a Master Crafted, two-handed AP2 S User Power Sword

Why? The paragon is better. If I recall correctly the point of that sword is a ap2 sword you can give to consuls.


I 2nd that a fist instead of a pistol is pretty nice. It helps give options in CC and the two weapons pair off. The problem is the pistols is they usely only over kill some bolted goon nine times out of ten.

I use to take a archeotech pistol on my warsmith since the servo arm can pair off the paragon blade. But I stopped since it didn't feel worth the points.

As for a paragon blade I like to use the PA Grey knights huge power sword. It's big enough to stand out. The smaller two handed swords I use for normal power swords.

 Lockark wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You could instead use the Blade of Perdition, a Master Crafted, two-handed AP2 S User Power Sword

Why? The paragon is better. If I recall correctly the point that of that sword is a ap2 sword you can give to consuls.

Because maybe he doesnt want too just take a Paragon Blade? I mean yeah it's +1 S AP2 with murderous strike, but there are options for a reason and 30k is about fluffing your army out how you want to, not just about taking the good choices.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Lockark wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
You could instead use the Blade of Perdition, a Master Crafted, two-handed AP2 S User Power Sword

Why? The paragon is better. If I recall correctly the point that of that sword is a ap2 sword you can give to consuls.

Because maybe he doesnt want too just take a Paragon Blade? I mean yeah it's +1 S AP2 with murderous strike, but there are options for a reason and 30k is about fluffing your army out how you want to, not just about taking the good choices.

Sorry, I don't see how choosing one sword over the other is "unfluffy". You are modeling a sword at the end of the day.

Fluffy options in my mind is when you are taking upgrades that look cool to model

Because one is purely a BA thing? And maybe you want to use things unique to them?

Also with the Blood Angels rule that makes them require 1 less to wound, its essentially a Paragon Blade where each wound inflicts 2 wounds rather than a 6 causing instant death.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Because one is purely a BA thing? And maybe you want to use things unique to them?

Also with the Blood Angels rule that makes them require 1 less to wound, its essentially a Paragon Blade where each wound inflicts 2 wounds rather than a 6 causing instant death.

But it's also 2 handed, meaning it's like a specialist weapon, but has no way to gain more attacks. I like the Idea of the BA blade, but I dislike how limiting it is, especially since fluff wise, a paragon blade is described as literally any kind of old-school, rare, or powerful hand weapon. Want your paragon blade to look like a lightning claw, but with neat claw designs? you can do it! Want your paragon blade to be a morning star? sure, why not?

 Brennonjw wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Because one is purely a BA thing? And maybe you want to use things unique to them?

Also with the Blood Angels rule that makes them require 1 less to wound, its essentially a Paragon Blade where each wound inflicts 2 wounds rather than a 6 causing instant death.

But it's also 2 handed, meaning it's like a specialist weapon, but has no way to gain more attacks. I like the Idea of the BA blade, but I dislike how limiting it is, especially since fluff wise, a paragon blade is described as literally any kind of old-school, rare, or powerful hand weapon. Want your paragon blade to look like a lightning claw, but with neat claw designs? you can do it! Want your paragon blade to be a morning star? sure, why not?

Two-Handed Axe, Two Handed Mace, Pair of Lightning Claws (that aren't actually a pair) A Glaive, a Halberd.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Because one is purely a BA thing? And maybe you want to use things unique to them?

Also with the Blood Angels rule that makes them require 1 less to wound, its essentially a Paragon Blade where each wound inflicts 2 wounds rather than a 6 causing instant death.

But it's also 2 handed, meaning it's like a specialist weapon, but has no way to gain more attacks. I like the Idea of the BA blade, but I dislike how limiting it is, especially since fluff wise, a paragon blade is described as literally any kind of old-school, rare, or powerful hand weapon. Want your paragon blade to look like a lightning claw, but with neat claw designs? you can do it! Want your paragon blade to be a morning star? sure, why not?

Two-Handed Axe, Two Handed Mace, Pair of Lightning Claws (that aren't actually a pair)

yup, and then you can do things like model on 'wrist mounted combi-weapons' and what not

 Brennonjw wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
Because one is purely a BA thing? And maybe you want to use things unique to them?

Also with the Blood Angels rule that makes them require 1 less to wound, its essentially a Paragon Blade where each wound inflicts 2 wounds rather than a 6 causing instant death.

But it's also 2 handed, meaning it's like a specialist weapon, but has no way to gain more attacks. I like the Idea of the BA blade, but I dislike how limiting it is, especially since fluff wise, a paragon blade is described as literally any kind of old-school, rare, or powerful hand weapon. Want your paragon blade to look like a lightning claw, but with neat claw designs? you can do it! Want your paragon blade to be a morning star? sure, why not?

Two-Handed Axe, Two Handed Mace, Pair of Lightning Claws (that aren't actually a pair)

yup, and then you can do things like model on 'wrist mounted combi-weapons' and what not

Yeah, so since you can fluff the Blade of Perdition the same as the Paragon Blade, it just comes down to 2+* to Wound and a chance for isntant death with the Paragon Blade, or 3+* to wound and double wounds with the BoP.

* vs a T4 Praetor

On the topic of modeling a paragon blade. A large heavy chain sword would probably be a pretty fluffy paragon blade. Especially if your doing the blood angels 2nd company who latter became the flesh tearers

 Lockark wrote:
On the topic of modeling a paragon blade. A large heavy chain sword would probably be a pretty fluffy paragon blade. Especially if your doing the blood angels 2nd company who latter became the flesh tearers

just loot seth's chainblade and use that! fluffy, AND you get to tie it into current standing fluff

Lots of replies! Thanks for the feedback folks.

Firstly, I had planned on having a couple of different builds on my Praetor such as having one with an Iron Halo and another with the 3++ relic stacked on instead, and the Iron Halo version wielding a Paragon Blade while the 3++ relic version has the Blood Angels Specific relic blade with ap2 that has soul blaze, fleshbane, fear and blind. (Is this the Blade of Perdition? Just clarifying) and also having a version with just an Iron Halo and the Blood Angels Relic sword instead of the Power Sword, that way I can just pick the list I want to run with whatever Praetor version my opponent is cool with, as the lists be be fairly identical outside of the HQ loadout.

I had not thought of mixing a Powerfist into the mix in lieu of a pistol. I like that thought, though the Pistol does give him a means to actually hurt something at range, particularly an armored target, at the cost of not being quite as lethal in melee as far as raw number of attacks. I guess the reason I'm not as concerned is that the Blood Angels relic sword has Fleshbane (2+ to wound) so the odds of getting hits through as wounds is much higher. That said, more attacks area always a good thing. I was not aware the Blood Angels Relic power sword was 2 handed, which is why I went with the pistol in the initial build to gain the +1 attack and give him a ranged attack to take advantage of his higher than average ballistic skill (BS:5, correct?)

So, I suppose the question I have is this, what is the name of the Blood Angels Relic sword with AP:2, Fleshbane, blind, and soulblaze, and is it a 2 handed or a 1 handed blade?

I know the blade of perdition is a specialist weapon, so what I may wind up doing is having one Praetor built with a Paragon blade and a power fist, and a second praetor built with the Blood Angels Relic sword and an as-yet-to-be determined off hand weapon, depending on weather it's a two handed blade or not.

Apologies for not having all this information myself as yet, but I want to make sure my builds are legal while I work on getting the models ready and planned out, pending I get my hands on the rule books myself.

Thanks for the help so far and I look forward to more info and replies.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

The Blade of Perdition in their new Wargear from HH6 and not a Relic. The relic is the Photonic Blade and it does not have Specialist Weapon.

The Blade of Perdition doesnt have Specialist Weapon, but Two Handed, but you can take Digi Lasers for the +1 Attack.

A BoP Praetor with Iron Halo, Volkite Charger (more shooting is good), Meltabombs and Digi Lasers is 175pts with 5 attacks standing still and 6 on the charge, where each wound rolled does two wounds that need to be saved individually.

A Paragon Blade Praetor with Iron Halo, Volkite Charger, Power Fist, Digi Lasers and Master Crafted (to bring it up to the BoP) is 210pts with 6 attacks standing still and 7 on the charge, where you have a chance for Instant Death on the wounds.

The blades we are talking about is a legion spefic bit of kit BA can buy for any preator or consul. They are two handed ap2 power sword that can generate extra wounds.

I think of them as paragon blades light, so personally not something I would consider on a preator. But a great bit of kit for some of your consuls.

For anti-tank your pistol will not be effective against some of the larger tanks that can take armored cerimite. Just the small tanks no one buys the upgrade for.

Alot of people will sujest melts bombs for this reason. Since they still get armour bane against ceramite.


Note about relics. They are only meant for use in campaign games described in book 4. To use them outside of that in pick up games you will need opponent permission. So unless your group plans to allow them or run a campaign do not count on them.

If you buy book 6 and the crusade list you will have all the BA rules except for the relics. Relics are part of the campaign system in book 4.

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:The Blade of Perdition in their new Wargear from HH6 and not a Relic. The relic is the Photonic Blade and it does not have Specialist Weapon.

The Blade of Perdition doesnt have Specialist Weapon, but Two Handed, but you can take Digi Lasers for the +1 Attack.

A BoP Praetor with Iron Halo, Volkite Charger (more shooting is good), Meltabombs and Digi Lasers is 175pts with 5 attacks standing still and 6 on the charge, where each wound rolled does two wounds that need to be saved individually.

A Paragon Blade Praetor with Iron Halo, Volkite Charger, Power Fist, Digi Lasers and Master Crafted (to bring it up to the BoP) is 210pts with 6 attacks standing still and 7 on the charge, where you have a chance for Instant Death on the wounds.

Ok, now I'm tracking better. Photonic Blade and Blade of Perdition. I like the doubled up wounds, that's pretty slick. Though I agree with Lockark, they might be better served on a Consul or other character beyond the Praetor, whom I hope to be a beatstick of sorts.

Lockark wrote:The blades we are talking about is a legion spefic bit of kit BA can buy for any preator or consul. They are two handed ap2 power sword that can generate extra wounds.

I think of them as paragon blades light, so personally not something I would consider on a preator. But a great bit of kit for some of your consuls.

For anti-tank your pistol will not be effective against some of the larger tanks that can take armored cerimite. Just the small tanks no one buys the upgrade for.

Alot of people will sujest melts bombs for this reason. Since they still get armour bane against ceramite.


Note about relics. They are only meant for use in campaign games described in book 4. To use them outside of that in pick up games you will need opponent permission. So unless your group plans to allow them or run a campaign do not count on them.

If you buy book 6 and the crusade list you will have all the BA rules except for the relics. Relics are part of the campaign system in book 4.

I understand regarding Melta pistols not being as effective, meltabombs will likely be the better option, or just power fist swings against thin rear armored tanks, depending on build.

So, here's a revised set of builds, two with, and one without relics. Ideally I'd like to run one model to represent all three builds. Let me know what you guys think.

Build 1: Paragon Blade (Relic, Specialist), Power Fist (Specialist, unwieldy), Digi-Lasers, Iron Halo, Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, Melta bombs, Frag & Krak Grenades

Build 2: Blade of Perdition (2 Handed), Power Fist, (Specialist, Unwieldy), Digi-Lasers, Iron Halo, Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Frag & Krak Grenades (No relics here)

Build 3: Photonic Blade (relic), Power Fist, (Specialist, Unwieldy), Digi-Lasers, Iron Halo, Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Frag & Krak Grenades

In theory, I could use the one model build out with a larger sword (Sanguinary Guard blade) in one hand, power fist in the other, artificer armor and an iron halo mounted to a Jump Pack, melta bomb strapped on with grenades on the belt. I think I'm going to forgo any ranged weapon as, after thinking about it, I want this guy to be a melee centric character. I'll get shooting from other places in the army.

I appreciate the help folks, and hope to have this build started up in short order.

Take it easy for now and I'll post an update here once I get parts sorted and can get all the parts sorted out.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:The Blade of Perdition in their new Wargear from HH6 and not a Relic. The relic is the Photonic Blade and it does not have Specialist Weapon.

The Blade of Perdition doesnt have Specialist Weapon, but Two Handed, but you can take Digi Lasers for the +1 Attack.

A BoP Praetor with Iron Halo, Volkite Charger (more shooting is good), Meltabombs and Digi Lasers is 175pts with 5 attacks standing still and 6 on the charge, where each wound rolled does two wounds that need to be saved individually.

A Paragon Blade Praetor with Iron Halo, Volkite Charger, Power Fist, Digi Lasers and Master Crafted (to bring it up to the BoP) is 210pts with 6 attacks standing still and 7 on the charge, where you have a chance for Instant Death on the wounds.

Ok, now I'm tracking better. Photonic Blade and Blade of Perdition. I like the doubled up wounds, that's pretty slick. Though I agree with Lockark, they might be better served on a Consul or other character beyond the Praetor, whom I hope to be a beatstick of sorts.

Thats fair, but I think on average the BoP will cause more wound than the Paragon Blade with a similar number of attacks

Build 1: Paragon Blade (Relic, Specialist), Power Fist (Specialist, unwieldy), Digi-Lasers, Iron Halo, Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, Melta bombs, Frag & Krak Grenades

Build 2: Blade of Perdition (2 Handed), Power Fist, (Specialist, Unwieldy), Digi-Lasers, Iron Halo, Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Frag & Krak Grenades (No relics here)

Build 3: Photonic Blade (relic), Power Fist, (Specialist, Unwieldy), Digi-Lasers, Iron Halo, Artificer Armor, Jump Pack, Melta Bombs, Frag & Krak Grenades

In theory, I could use the one model build out with a larger sword (Sanguinary Guard blade) in one hand, power fist in the other, artificer armor and an iron halo mounted to a Jump Pack, melta bomb strapped on with grenades on the belt. I think I'm going to forgo any ranged weapon as, after thinking about it, I want this guy to be a melee centric character. I'll get shooting from other places in the army.

I appreciate the help folks, and hope to have this build started up in short order.

Take it easy for now and I'll post an update here once I get parts sorted and can get all the parts sorted out.

-Red__Thirst-

You wouldn't need the Power Fists where they are highlighted, but if you want to keep them for the sake of a one model for all 3 builds then I dont see why not. I would argue having a Volkite Charger though, because the Assault 2 causes additional wounds would be great for when you are charging and it doesnt take up a weapons slot.

Hmm, Ok.

So I'm back to looking at fielding two Praetors (Oh, Darn. ). One beatstick and one shooty/choppy.

A Shooty/Choppy One armed with Blade of Perdition, Digi-Lasers, Volkite Charger, meltabombs, and Frag+Krak grenades. Lots of wound potential here with the blade inflicting a second extra wound per wound inflicted, at -1 required to wound (so 3+ to wound normally against T:4).

A second pure choppy model armed with Photonic Blade (Or, Paragon Blade, depending on my mood), Power Fist, Digi-Lasers, Melta Bombs, Frag & Krak Grenades.

Both sporting Arificer armor, Iron Halos, and Jump Packs

Ideas continue to percolate for the modeling options.

Thanks for the feedback and help, Victor. I greatly appreciate it.

Take i easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

No problem, happy to help.