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Hey mates, got my Chimeras and starting to work on my Infantry for my DKOK Grenadier Assault Brigade list, however I currently facing a delima. Currently my list has 7x Storm Chimeras (aka come with Autocannon Turrets base), and a Avenger Strike Fighter, and at the moment I am debating between with Leman Russ Varient to field for my Hvy. Support. And since I lack any true Long-Range Anti-Tank Weaponry I am debating to field the Leman Russ Annihilator or the Leman Russ Vanquisher.

Both have there pros and cons, but both basically fulfill the same role. The Vanquisher is a bit more expensive point-wise and I have to pay points to make it Twin-Linked with the Coaxial Hvy. Stubber, but it does have the longer range and the 2D6 Armor Penetration. Annihilator is cheaper, and basically a more heavily armored Predator, but lacks any extra penetration power. Plan to field either with a Hull-Mounted Lascannon, so at this point it's basically which one would be more effective. Appreciate the feedback mates.

I've never had much success with the Vanq (but I run stock Guard so what would I know?). I would recommend the Annihilator, you'll want to probably try to hull point vehicles to death instead of hoping for one shot kills

Annihilator as a more common tank it has enough power to deal with most things you will find.

Only bring out the Vanq when you see something with armor 14 and your just not having luck even with lascannons removing hull points. The Vanq will at least give a chance at a pen and removing a hull point.
That and I would imagine you have IA so the Vanq can have Beast Hunter shells which can ID some things.

My Vanqs have cracked open Land Raiders, Battlewagons (from the front), Baneblades, etc. An Annihilator could have done it sure, but with less pen power (Vanq is essentially a melta with really long range) and range there could have been problems.

I like my Annihilators to push forwards going pew pew. I have considered creating more of them to run them as main line machines with Heavy bolter sponsons and maybe a lascannon in the hull, making a Predator Annihilator with a little more Dakka and Armor, if more expensive

Both are based around an earlier edition sadly.

However, what I recommend is running your Vanquisher as an Armored Battle Group Company Command Tank. S8 AP2 Instant Death small blasts are no joke.

Yeah, if you're already using FW, use the ABG Vanq with Beast Hunter shells.

I second what others have suggested.

An HQ Vanq from the ABG can do some damage. BS4, orders, and beast hunter shells to ID the big and bad! To make the most out of it, TL the main cannon with a coaxial stubber and include a hull-mounted LC. Sure he's expensive, but ready to throw down some long-range hurt. Fill out the rest of the ABG CAD with Thunderers.

If you want to boost his durability and buff damage output further, back him up with a tech-priest militant from the DKK CCS.

Appreciate the replies so far, however I am fielding the DKOK Grenadier Assault Brigade list mainly because I can field units of Storm Troopers in Storm Chimeras. They don't get Command tanks in that list, and the closest they get is the Forward Observer tank, which is BS4. Other then that, they don't have access to the Special Ammunition that the Leman Russ Tanks get in the ABG.

For an Assault Brigade, with the option of a coax stubber, the Vanquisher is the better choice. In fact, really in general, the Vanquisher is better (unless youre hunting flyers or heavy infantry) if youre looking at heavy tank hunting.

That said, neither are really functional in their role in 7E. Tanks are usually killes throuh HP loss, not damage chart kills, and neither variant has the raw rate of fire to be effecticr at HP stripping nor the ability to enhance damage table results enough to make damage table kills a reliable result (even with a TL'd Vanq, youre looking at a damage table kill against an AV14 tank about every...14 turns).

If you're running an assault brigade...your best AT is spamming Rapiers, theyre cheap and much more effective.

The worst part about the AB is how cool the concept of the list is...and how poorly it runs and how painfully overcosted almost everything is, especially the tanks and chimeras.

I would actually go with the Annhilator.

If you're planning on adding more lascannons to it, then there's little reason to go with the Vanquisher. It has superior range, but that means any sort of benefit you get out of that range means your lascannons won't be firing. The volume of fire should be more than enough to compensate for the loss of the Vanquisher's other special rules.

To be fair, range is probably never going to be an issue with 48" on the lascannons unless you're firing corner to corner. On either you'd pretty much always add the hull lascannon either way.

And, sadly, the Annihilator has no additional rate of fire over the Vanquisher, it's just inherently twin-linked.

I have always had a lot of luck with vanquishers, I use a commander in a vany with hull LC and MM sponsons and try to place him in the middle of my deployment zone, he can threaten any armor from there and after he takes out all the armored threats he is dishing out 4 seriously ainful shots on any nearby heavy infantry/light tanks.

You could always us an Allied detachment of an IA armored battle group, command vanquisher with beasthunter shells and any lrbt/thunderer as a troop choice...

For the sake of comparison, how about some mathhammer probabilities...

Vanquisher (BS3, co-axial stub) vs AV14/13
72">36" - HP: 0.36/0.42 Pen: 0.29/0.36 Explode: 0.049/0.060
<36" - HP: 0.54/0.62 Pen: 0.44/0.54 Explode: 0.073/0.090

Annihilator (BS3) vs AV14/13
<48" - HP: 0.25/0.375 Pen: 0.125/0.25 Explode: 0.021/0.042

Assuming I did the math right, the Vanq outperforms the Annihilator.

 Ironwolf45 wrote:
Appreciate the replies so far, however I am fielding the DKOK Grenadier Assault Brigade list mainly because I can field units of Storm Troopers in Storm Chimeras. They don't get Command tanks in that list, and the closest they get is the Forward Observer tank, which is BS4. Other then that, they don't have access to the Special Ammunition that the Leman Russ Tanks get in the ABG.

The Armoured Battle Group List can take Armoured Fist Storm Trooper Squads (Stormtroopers in a Chimera), as an Elite. They can also take Armoured Fist Veterans (5 Vets in a Centaur, or 6-10 Vets in a Chimera) as a Troop choice. Might give you an alternative if you want better Russ options.