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I'm looking into turning my 2 B@A boxes into emporers children army since I really like the colorscheme and theme of them, but I notice their special unit, aside from the kakophone, are melee and rather expensive. How effective are they in a game where there are so many tanks and terminators?
Also, am I correct in thinking that the marines in the B@A box could be regular marines or if you have them special weapons, for a support squad?

1) EVERYTHING in 30k has uses/is good or playable, this is NOT 40k, you should NOT be min maxing

2) since you're getting 2 calth boxes, you will only have a max of 6 of each special weapon, so you could do something like this for your troops/elites

2 20-man tactical squads
5-man plasma or melta squad
5-man ML squad
10-man seeker squad or vet. tactical squad

3) melee units are good, but you shouldn't pick or avoid them out of fear of them being broken or not good.

 Brennonjw wrote:
1) EVERYTHING in 30k has uses/is good or playable, this is NOT 40k, you should NOT be min maxing

This is a dishonest statement. Some things in 30K are simply better than others- some legions are simply better than others. While "everything has a use", as long as the game is based on math some things will be mathematically stronger than others- and there's absolutely nothing wrong with preferring to use those things with the intention of winning your games.

- - - - -

Emperor's Children are one of the weaker legions in the game, unfortunately. Their special units are overpriced and their rules, while fluffy, kind of lag behind compared to the newer legions. Their rules are centered around out-maneuvering the opponent and using bonuses to win combats (Fulgrim+Rylanor means that your units could be getting as much as +6 to combat resolution, whew lad), which is great, but unfortunately they suffer from melee combat still being... melee combat, in a 40K rules-set. Shooting is still strictly stronger, and an EC army generally faces an uphill battle against the kind of gunlines that armies like Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists can bring to the table.

Still I wouldn't advise against playing EC if you're a fan of their fluff. They're still a fun army to play and so long as your local meta is not too competitive, battles may require a bit more effort on your part but it's unlikely that you'll ever be getting straight up obliterated.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
1) EVERYTHING in 30k has uses/is good or playable, this is NOT 40k, you should NOT be min maxing

This is a dishonest statement. Some things in 30K are simply better than others- some legions are simply better than others. While "everything has a use", as long as the game is based on math some things will be mathematically stronger than others- and there's absolutely nothing wrong with preferring to use those things with the intention of winning your games.

- - - - -

Emperor's Children are one of the weaker legions in the game, unfortunately. Their special units are overpriced and their rules, while fluffy, kind of lag behind compared to the newer legions. Their rules are centered around out-maneuvering the opponent and using bonuses to win combats (Fulgrim+Rylanor means that your units could be getting as much as +6 to combat resolution, whew lad), which is great, but unfortunately they suffer from melee combat still being... melee combat, in a 40K rules-set. Shooting is still strictly stronger, and an EC army generally faces an uphill battle against the kind of gunlines that armies like Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists can bring to the table.

Still I wouldn't advise against playing EC if you're a fan of their fluff. They're still a fun army to play and so long as your local meta is not too competitive, battles may require a bit more effort on your part but it's unlikely that you'll ever be getting straight up obliterated.

Why yes, you could math-hammer it up and bring PotL with min vet. squads so you can spam more sicarians/spartans/other typical no-thinking required stuff, but 9 times out of 10 30k communities are leagues less competitive, and "typical 40k WAAC lists" are frowned upon by most who play 30k. HOWEVER, I doubt that my statement is dishonest. Yes, there are better options, but in a game as fluff-centric as 30k is, bringing ONLY those options is like bringing a net/tournament list to a teaching game.

Additionally, the range of power from the weakest legion to the strongest legion is hardly game breaking. Additionally, looking at the armies played in 30k, melee is just as, if not MORE viable then shooting (against mechanicum it's better to CC most of the time, same goes for fighting auxilia) and marines vs. marines CC is fairly balanced for obvious reasons.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
1) EVERYTHING in 30k has uses/is good or playable, this is NOT 40k, you should NOT be min maxing

This is a dishonest statement. Some things in 30K are simply better than others- some legions are simply better than others. While "everything has a use", as long as the game is based on math some things will be mathematically stronger than others- and there's absolutely nothing wrong with preferring to use those things with the intention of winning your games.

- - - - -

Emperor's Children are one of the weaker legions in the game, unfortunately. Their special units are overpriced and their rules, while fluffy, kind of lag behind compared to the newer legions. Their rules are centered around out-maneuvering the opponent and using bonuses to win combats (Fulgrim+Rylanor means that your units could be getting as much as +6 to combat resolution, whew lad), which is great, but unfortunately they suffer from melee combat still being... melee combat, in a 40K rules-set. Shooting is still strictly stronger, and an EC army generally faces an uphill battle against the kind of gunlines that armies like Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists can bring to the table.

Still I wouldn't advise against playing EC if you're a fan of their fluff. They're still a fun army to play and so long as your local meta is not too competitive, battles may require a bit more effort on your part but it's unlikely that you'll ever be getting straight up obliterated.

I love the EC look, but the Iron warriors also interest me, but their huge lack of special units makes me think they will just be rather bland. My current area I stomp pretty well at in 40k, even with the less powerful codexs so im sure I could make anything 30k work, I just like the idea that anything can be useful!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Brennonjw wrote:
1) EVERYTHING in 30k has uses/is good or playable, this is NOT 40k, you should NOT be min maxing

2) since you're getting 2 calth boxes, you will only have a max of 6 of each special weapon, so you could do something like this for your troops/elites

2 20-man tactical squads
5-man plasma or melta squad
5-man ML squad
10-man seeker squad or vet. tactical squad

3) melee units are good, but you shouldn't pick or avoid them out of fear of them being broken or not good.

So far I built
5 heavy bolter
5 ML
30 tac
2 comp. dreds
10 terminators, 2 plasma, all Pfist

30k is about fluffy units and thematic battles. If you are playing 30k competitively you are playing it wrong.

IW special units flipping rock btw, perhaps the best shooting special units in the game.

 Brennonjw wrote:
but 9 times out of 10 30k communities are leagues less competitive, and "typical 40k WAAC lists" are frowned upon by most who play 30k.

And what data is this assertion based off of? Anything other than your own fluff-bunny bias?

Col. Dash wrote:
30k is about fluffy units and thematic battles. If you are playing 30k competitively you are playing it wrong.

Unless you're paying for his models, "the right way" to play 30K is however he pleases.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
I love the EC look, but the Iron warriors also interest me, but their huge lack of special units makes me think they will just be rather bland. My current area I stomp pretty well at in 40k, even with the less powerful codexs so im sure I could make anything 30k work, I just like the idea that anything can be useful!

FW has stated that as time goes on pretty much every army will have a roughly equal amount of special rules/units, so I wouldn't worry too much about IW getting the short end of the stick. In fact the Iron Circle is coming out soon:


Out of curiosity, what is the metric you're looking at for choosing a legion? Do you prefer the fluff/aesthetic of certain legions, or are you looking for a particular play-style? The nice thing about 30K is that every legion brings something unique to the table.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
but 9 times out of 10 30k communities are leagues less competitive, and "typical 40k WAAC lists" are frowned upon by most who play 30k.

And what data is this assertion based off of? Anything other than your own fluff-bunny bias?

Col. Dash wrote:
30k is about fluffy units and thematic battles. If you are playing 30k competitively you are playing it wrong.

Unless you're paying for his models, "the right way" to play 30K is however he pleases.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
I love the EC look, but the Iron warriors also interest me, but their huge lack of special units makes me think they will just be rather bland. My current area I stomp pretty well at in 40k, even with the less powerful codexs so im sure I could make anything 30k work, I just like the idea that anything can be useful!

FW has stated that as time goes on pretty much every army will have a roughly equal amount of special rules/units, so I wouldn't worry too much about IW getting the short end of the stick. In fact the Iron Circle is coming out soon:

Spoiler:

Rules

Out of curiosity, what is the metric you're looking at for choosing a legion? Do you prefer the fluff/aesthetic of certain legions, or are you looking for a particular play-style? The nice thing about 30K is that every legion brings something unique to the table.

well, you can brows through this forum and find that most would rather play fluffy then competitive.

Additionally, he's kinda right: If your trying to play competative 30k, you ARE doing it wrong since there are less competitive players, less competitive events, less support from ITC and other such systems, and everything that 'competitive players' would bring in a 30k list you can generally get in regular marine lists.

whether or not you want to admit it: 30k and 40k are vastly different animals. Against each other, it's a pretty even split favoring 40k, but when you look at the bulk of the players and playstyles 40k is more competitive and MSU-ish, while 30k armies flounder when using MSU (when they even can) and are much more "play for fun/what looks cool/fluff"

 Brennonjw wrote:
well, you can brows through this forum and find that most would rather play fluffy then competitive.

And? Forum posters are a vocal minority in the GW playerbase.

You're trying to use personal anecdotes to make a general statement... which is silly.

Additionally, he's kinda right: If your trying to play competative 30k, you ARE doing it wrong since there are less competitive players, less competitive events, less support from ITC and other such systems, and everything that 'competitive players' would bring in a 30k list you can generally get in regular marine lists.

All that means is that there are less competitive players in 30K. That doesn't mean that playing it competitively is "wrong", especially if your local meta supports it.

whether or not you want to admit it: 30k and 40k are vastly different animals. Against each other, it's a pretty even split favoring 40k, but when you look at the bulk of the players and playstyles 40k is more competitive and MSU-ish, while 30k armies flounder when using MSU (when they even can) and are much more "play for fun/what looks cool/fluff"

40K being stronger than 30K does not mean that you can't play 30K competitively. To the contrary, because 30K is more balanced it's actually more conducive to competitive play since the match-ups will be less one-sided. There is no "Eldar vs. Chaos Marines" scenario in 30K.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
but 9 times out of 10 30k communities are leagues less competitive, and "typical 40k WAAC lists" are frowned upon by most who play 30k.

And what data is this assertion based off of? Anything other than your own fluff-bunny bias?

Col. Dash wrote:
30k is about fluffy units and thematic battles. If you are playing 30k competitively you are playing it wrong.

Unless you're paying for his models, "the right way" to play 30K is however he pleases.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
I love the EC look, but the Iron warriors also interest me, but their huge lack of special units makes me think they will just be rather bland. My current area I stomp pretty well at in 40k, even with the less powerful codexs so im sure I could make anything 30k work, I just like the idea that anything can be useful!

FW has stated that as time goes on pretty much every army will have a roughly equal amount of special rules/units, so I wouldn't worry too much about IW getting the short end of the stick. In fact the Iron Circle is coming out soon:

Spoiler:

Rules

Out of curiosity, what is the metric you're looking at for choosing a legion? Do you prefer the fluff/aesthetic of certain legions, or are you looking for a particular play-style? The nice thing about 30K is that every legion brings something unique to the table.

that's pretty cool! As I remember the IW are about demolitions right? My playstyle is generally around using units specifically designed for one job, and do that job amazing, or artillery, as I love that look. I'm not playing to be competitive I just don't want to spend all this cash and end up buying the rough riders of 30k!
I'm a bit worried with all these new legions and models being released, how will I know what book to get that has the rules, and at this rate that book will be out of date really quickly it would seem.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
but 9 times out of 10 30k communities are leagues less competitive, and "typical 40k WAAC lists" are frowned upon by most who play 30k.

And what data is this assertion based off of? Anything other than your own fluff-bunny bias?

Col. Dash wrote:
30k is about fluffy units and thematic battles. If you are playing 30k competitively you are playing it wrong.

Unless you're paying for his models, "the right way" to play 30K is however he pleases.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
I love the EC look, but the Iron warriors also interest me, but their huge lack of special units makes me think they will just be rather bland. My current area I stomp pretty well at in 40k, even with the less powerful codexs so im sure I could make anything 30k work, I just like the idea that anything can be useful!

FW has stated that as time goes on pretty much every army will have a roughly equal amount of special rules/units, so I wouldn't worry too much about IW getting the short end of the stick. In fact the Iron Circle is coming out soon:

Spoiler:

Rules

Out of curiosity, what is the metric you're looking at for choosing a legion? Do you prefer the fluff/aesthetic of certain legions, or are you looking for a particular play-style? The nice thing about 30K is that every legion brings something unique to the table.

that's pretty cool! As I remember the IW are about demolitions right? My playstyle is generally around using units specifically designed for one job, and do that job amazing, or artillery, as I love that look. I'm not playing to be competitive I just don't want to spend all this cash and end up buying the rough riders of 30k!
I'm a bit worried with all these new legions and models being released, how will I know what book to get that has the rules, and at this rate that book will be out of date really quickly it would seem.

Like I've been saying, there is no 'rough rider' unit in 30k. the closest I can think of is breachers, but even then, they look amazing, and shine in IF lists and zones mortalis.

As for books: wait and get both of the new red books (legions and crusade army)

any ETA on when they will be out? I have been waiting for a bit now and am getting anxious!