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A friend and I regularly play off against each other. He's Space Wolves, I'm Tyranids. He regularly takes thunderwolf cavalry kitted out with two close combat weapons that are shredding and AP3 or 4, with an 4++ invul.

They're fast, incredibly hard to kill, and with the shredding and high AP I really have no hope of ever taking this unit in close combat and where most tyranid weapons don't go through SM armour unless in CC the reality is I'm looking at shooting attacks only to take out a unit 6 +1HQ at a 3+.

Any suggestions on the best approach?

Hormagaunts and Termigants in Synapse range. He can only kill so many. Run the Endless Swarm Formation. I had 15 MegaNobz (that were also Fearless) that were tied up all game. Works against Imperial Knights et al.

How many points are you playing?

Counter-Charge would seem to be the obvious answer, depending on kit. Soak the charge with Guaunts, counter charge with everything. A wrecking crew of Fexes is going to hurt.

If you know he's coming to you, set the trap.

If he doesn't have storm shields on them, throw a few mucolids at it. Mucolids won't insta-gib them but will give him pause, especially since 2 mucolids (which are 30 points in total) stands a VERY good chance of nuking his thunderwolves. Use the Shield of Baal spore cluster formation if you want them to constantly come back to harass him.

 PipeAlley wrote:
Hormagaunts and Termigants in Synapse range. He can only kill so many. Run the Endless Swarm Formation. I had 15 MegaNobz (that were also Fearless) that were tied up all game. Works against Imperial Knights et al.

That might work against Mega Nobz, but TWC have a VERY high number of attacks.

Spores to just screen and blow up on them when they charge in. They can't touch a flyrant in the air which can spam shots into them. TWC are usally 3+ armor and 3++ invuln so it doesn't matter usally if your packing AP 3 or not. Volume of high strength (str 6 and 7 generally is good) to force a lot of saves and cut them down.

Dakka Flyrants, dakka fexen, Mawlocs, and Exocrines. Use multiple units of termagaunt / hormagants to screen your shooty guys.

Just drown them in dice and/or use the only high str AP2 we have access to that doesn't suck.

How many Thunderwolf Cav are we talking anyway?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Hormagaunts and Termigants in Synapse range. He can only kill so many. Run the Endless Swarm Formation. I had 15 MegaNobz (that were also Fearless) that were tied up all game. Works against Imperial Knights et al.

That might work against Mega Nobz, but TWC have a VERY high number of attacks.

They're still only hitting half the time against Hormaguants. Each wolf will be killing 2-3 per turn.

he has 6 calvalry + his HQ which is similarly equiped. 7*3 = 21 attacks per turn, not including charge.

21 shredding, ignore my armour attacks. I need a giant mob of gaunts to tie him down.

No, you need many small ones. A line of 10-15 gaunts, with another line 1" behind that, and so on, is surprisingly good.

If he wants to get at the juicy synapse creatures and bio-artillery behind it, he has to charge, but he can't kill more than one brood per turn. He will kill that one brood - 15 gaunts won't stand up to a cavalry charge.

Don't charge him with the next rank - just advance and lap around him, and shoot, and move up the next next rank.

Have Gaunts that surround, but don't actually charge the Thunderwolves.

That way he has movement restricted and you can control the rest of the board.

Flyrants are also pretty tasty.

 disdamn wrote:
A friend and I regularly play off against each other. He's Space Wolves, I'm Tyranids. He regularly takes thunderwolf cavalry kitted out with two close combat weapons that are shredding and AP3 or 4, with an 4++ invul.

They're fast, incredibly hard to kill, and with the shredding and high AP I really have no hope of ever taking this unit in close combat and where most tyranid weapons don't go through SM armour unless in CC the reality is I'm looking at shooting attacks only to take out a unit 6 +1HQ at a 3+.

Any suggestions on the best approach?

How is your opponent giving them a 4++ if they are using 2 close combat weapons, they then do not have any free hands for a ccw. Also the best way to take them down is just weight of shots, or fexes with upgrade to give them str 10 HoW. That will insta-gib the TWC.

Force them to make their saves!

As someone who regularly takes Thunderwolves with Storm Shields, I recommend Flying Hive Tyrants. Make me waste my Storm Shield upgrades by throwing high strength, poor AP shots at the Wolves. The thing that hurts me the most are the Flying Hive Tyrants with all that dakka coming from Devourers. Plus with the occasional Psychic spell messing them up (which one lowers their Weapon Skill?), Flyrants are probably the best bet against Thunderwolves.

It's when people throw Plasma or Melta style shots at my Thunderwolves that I laugh.

"Haha! Storm Shield save!"

But when I come up against a high volume of shots at Strength 6 or higher, that's when I weep.

"No! Poor puppies..."

I too play regularly against space wolves as tyranids, which are basically what I mainly play.

I must agree with BunkhoseBuster, those flyrants pump out so many shots that wound on 3's, that the puppies will start to loose saves eventually, and they're a swiss army penknife in supporting various aspects of your army! (With synapse, two warp charges, durable because of having to snapshoot 'em, weapon skill 9, if you really have to, and so many other things.)

The 'sporefield' formation costs 90 POINTS at minimum, which is completely amazing for the amount of board control it gives you. 3 single-man units of s8 ap3 will rough 'em up and spams of spore mines will certainly help you elsewhere.

Any monstrous creatures that have overwatch eaten up by some termagants all have AP2, which can force 4++ saves, as opposed to 3+ ones. A strategy I use is crushing claw carnifexs, these things have s10 ap1, meaning that if they get through their invuln, then it's insta-death for those pups. This is definitely something to consider, but those twc are gonna hit you back quite hard if you let them.

Hope this helps!

 QuazzaP wrote:
I too play regularly against space wolves as tyranids, which are basically what I mainly play.

I must agree with BunkhoseBuster, those flyrants pump out so many shots that wound on 3's, that the puppies will start to loose saves eventually, and they're a swiss army penknife in supporting various aspects of your army! (With synapse, two warp charges, durable because of having to snapshoot 'em, weapon skill 9, if you really have to, and so many other things.)

The 'sporefield' formation costs 90 POINTS at minimum, which is completely amazing for the amount of board control it gives you. 3 single-man units of s8 ap3 will rough 'em up and spams of spore mines will certainly help you elsewhere.

Any monstrous creatures that have overwatch eaten up by some termagants all have AP2, which can force 4++ saves, as opposed to 3+ ones. A strategy I use is crushing claw carnifexs, these things have s10 ap1, meaning that if they get through their invuln, then it's insta-death for those pups. This is definitely something to consider, but those twc are gonna hit you back quite hard if you let them.

Hope this helps!

Except the Carnifex will never REACH the TWC and they'll be striking first anyway, which means that they'll potentially kill it first; T6 3+ won't be too hard to get through.

Don't carnifexes come in broods now? As in MULTIPLE carnifexes?

 PipeAlley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Hormagaunts and Termigants in Synapse range. He can only kill so many. Run the Endless Swarm Formation. I had 15 MegaNobz (that were also Fearless) that were tied up all game. Works against Imperial Knights et al.

That might work against Mega Nobz, but TWC have a VERY high number of attacks.

They're still only hitting half the time against Hormaguants. Each wolf will be killing 2-3 per turn.

TWC are most often run out of a Champions of the Great Wolf detachment, which makes them WS 5, so not hitting half the time against Hormagaunts.

So I was just going through my box of unassembled Zoanthropes and came across the neurothrope. The spirit leech psychic power sounds like it potentially is an answer along with high volume shots. target unit within 18 inches takes a leadership test on a 3d6 and looses one wound for point the test is failed by.

the wording says no Cover Saves or Amour Saves. Doesn't specifically say, no saves of any kind allowed. Is an Invul Save an armour save, or would storm shields still be able to save the wounds caused by this power?

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Hormagaunts and Termigants in Synapse range. He can only kill so many. Run the Endless Swarm Formation. I had 15 MegaNobz (that were also Fearless) that were tied up all game. Works against Imperial Knights et al.

That might work against Mega Nobz, but TWC have a VERY high number of attacks.

They're still only hitting half the time against Hormaguants. Each wolf will be killing 2-3 per turn.

TWC are most often run out of a Champions of the Great Wolf detachment, which makes them WS 5, so not hitting half the time against Hormagaunts.

Whoops I was confusing Intiative and WS for Hormaguants. I haven't looked t the Tyranid Codex for awhile.

 disdamn wrote:
So I was just going through my box of unassembled Zoanthropes and came across the neurothrope. The spirit leech psychic power sounds like it potentially is an answer along with high volume shots. target unit within 18 inches takes a leadership test on a 3d6 and looses one wound for point the test is failed by.

the wording says no Cover Saves or Amour Saves. Doesn't specifically say, no saves of any kind allowed. Is an Invul Save an armour save, or would storm shields still be able to save the wounds caused by this power?

They could still use storm shields.

 disdamn wrote:
Is an Invul Save an armour save, or would storm shields still be able to save the wounds caused by this power?

Invulnerable saves are not armor saves. It's still a good power though.

How on earth do they get a 4+ invul and two weapons?

In any case, drowning them in gaunts works. They may have plenty of attacks, but so do gaunts. And gaunts cost practically nothing.

 BoomWolf wrote:
How on earth do they get a 4+ invul and two weapons?

In any case, drowning them in gaunts works. They may have plenty of attacks, but so do gaunts. And gaunts cost practically nothing.

I can only assume the 4++ is in reference to a Belt of Russ (or whatever the space wolves have nowadays) on the Wolf Lord IC that's attached to the unit.

So...that's one guy with a 4++
Go around him and shoot the flank?

 BoomWolf wrote:
How on earth do they get a 4+ invul and two weapons?

In any case, drowning them in gaunts works. They may have plenty of attacks, but so do gaunts. And gaunts cost practically nothing.

Considering they are T 5, would Toxin Sacs be worth it?