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Hey all. I'm just now getting into the 40k scene from other tabletop games. I've chosen the Tyranids. I got a fantastic deal from a friend containing a Flyrant, Tervigon/Tyranofex, 30-ish Termagaunts, A Harpy/Hive Crone, Some Tyranid Warriors and a Carnifex. As well as some bits that I'm not sure what they make. From what I've read on forums, Tyranids only have one decent army with the two Flyrants, 2 Tervigons, 2 Thropes and 60 Termagaunts and maybe a Mawloc. I was wondering if there were other effective units? I haven't really looked into how to build an army yet other than looking at all the units and the points. I mean I havent read how formations work and I don't know the Tyranid formations (I've only just purchased the book). I was hoping to run more bigger models like the Mawloc, Flyrants, Carnifex and such as opposed to overwhelming them with tiny models. Are there formations other than all flying that are effective? I don't need to win tournaments but I would like to stand a chance against armies. Do Tyranids have variety or is it just the same thing with small tweeks?

It's the same thing with small tweaks. and by small tweaks I mean "Do you want to run 4 Flyrants or 5?" And the answer is typically how many points you're playing.

Thing with Tyranids is that the internal balance of them is just shocking.

It's basically:
Amazing: Flyrants
Good: Mucolids, Mawlocs, Rippers, Carnifexes.

After that it spirals down to average, poor, terrible and in the case of Pyrovores, utter joke. So many stuff outclasses itself in the Codex.

Forgeworld doesn't help much. The Malanthrope can be thrown in good, Hierodules possibly too, but Malanthrope is a support option and Hierodules are outdated considering their stat line and current weapons in the game.

It's sad really. I got probably 10,000 points of nids and most of them are worthless. I really wanted to do a Nidzilla army, but the fact is their big beefy nids are pretty weak.

I'd consider the Exocrine, Hive Crone and the Venomthrope to be in the Good category, too, with the Malanthrope sitting between Good and Amazing. The Dimachaeron is tricky to use, but dangerous - kind of a major gamble.

Nids aren't a one trick pony, but Frozocrone nailed it on the head when he brought up their internal balance. I've seen several builds that work, but Flyrants are pretty much the best unit in the dex, and while not required, you are handicapping yourself by not taking them. Most units are workable, but for each FOC slot, there are clear winners and losers in each of them.

They're most definitely a one-trick pony. The only things worth running are Mawlocs and Flyrants. Anything else is just for flavor that you want.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're most definitely a one-trick pony. The only things worth running are Mawlocs and Flyrants. Anything else is just for flavor that you want.

What about a heavy genestealer list that uses the formations to infiltrate really close to the enemy?

 Lord Scythican wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're most definitely a one-trick pony. The only things worth running are Mawlocs and Flyrants. Anything else is just for flavor that you want.

What about a heavy genestealer list that uses the formations to infiltrate really close to the enemy?

Ask the enemy to nicely stand still for a turn and not shoot your genestealers. Then they'll do great!

Pretty sure with the new Genestealer rules you can charge T1.

pm713 wrote:
Pretty sure with the new Genestealer rules you can charge T1.

You can, but sadly this is a 600 points formation that essentially allows 3 models to have a turn 1 charge (and the cultists can too if you're lucky, but that requires great luck or a bad opponent). Genestealers are not a good option as we currently stand. They're just bad, regardless of where you infiltrate them, until they get a rules change. As to Nids as a one trick pony... Yes, they have one obvious "trick"in spamming Flyrants. But, really good/experienced Nid players can make other things work, but it's not Eldar level.

For example: Malanthropes/Venomthropes and Flyrants are the best things in the faction. They're great. There are good other units like Mawlocs, Lictors (depending on missions), Rippers, Gargoyles, Crones, and Biovores are all in the "good" category, but none of them are broken. Also, Genestealer cults add a whole dimension to Nids, I think an allied CAD of the Magus/Patriarch with two troops will be very popular.

NitosApprentice wrote:
Hey all. I'm just now getting into the 40k scene from other tabletop games. I've chosen the Tyranids. I got a fantastic deal from a friend containing a Flyrant, Tervigon/Tyranofex, 30-ish Termagaunts, A Harpy/Hive Crone, Some Tyranid Warriors and a Carnifex. As well as some bits that I'm not sure what they make. From what I've read on forums, Tyranids only have one decent army with the two Flyrants, 2 Tervigons, 2 Thropes and 60 Termagaunts and maybe a Mawloc. I was wondering if there were other effective units? I haven't really looked into how to build an army yet other than looking at all the units and the points. I mean I havent read how formations work and I don't know the Tyranid formations (I've only just purchased the book). I was hoping to run more bigger models like the Mawloc, Flyrants, Carnifex and such as opposed to overwhelming them with tiny models. Are there formations other than all flying that are effective? I don't need to win tournaments but I would like to stand a chance against armies. Do Tyranids have variety or is it just the same thing with small tweeks?

Running Nidzilla definitely can work. The carnifex can be a good unit - you just need to support it with some defense (or other more pressing options on offense haha. I wouldn't recommend Tervigons if you don't want to do hordes. They certainly can work, but it doesn't sound like it's your style. A list that you might like could look something like this:

Flyrant
Flyrant

Malanthrope (it's forge world but you can do the venomthrope instead - it just isn't as durable)

Rippers (deep strike upgrade, keep minimum squad)
Rippers (same as above)
Rippers (same as above)
Rippers (non-deep strike variant)

Carnifex (could have up to 3 models but tbh I think 3 solo squads would be better
Mawloc
Mawloc

Deathleaper's Assassin Brood Formation:

Deathleaper
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor

You have a ton of small scoring units and a LOT of killing power. Much of your army doesn't need or doesn't care about synapse, and your rippers can be anywhere to cap an objective. Try something like that out (the list I wrote there is 1850 but not sure what points value you wanted)

 luke1705 wrote:

NitosApprentice wrote:
Hey all. I'm just now getting into the 40k scene from other tabletop games. I've chosen the Tyranids. I got a fantastic deal from a friend containing a Flyrant, Tervigon/Tyranofex, 30-ish Termagaunts, A Harpy/Hive Crone, Some Tyranid Warriors and a Carnifex. As well as some bits that I'm not sure what they make. From what I've read on forums, Tyranids only have one decent army with the two Flyrants, 2 Tervigons, 2 Thropes and 60 Termagaunts and maybe a Mawloc. I was wondering if there were other effective units? I haven't really looked into how to build an army yet other than looking at all the units and the points. I mean I havent read how formations work and I don't know the Tyranid formations (I've only just purchased the book). I was hoping to run more bigger models like the Mawloc, Flyrants, Carnifex and such as opposed to overwhelming them with tiny models. Are there formations other than all flying that are effective? I don't need to win tournaments but I would like to stand a chance against armies. Do Tyranids have variety or is it just the same thing with small tweeks?

Running Nidzilla definitely can work. The carnifex can be a good unit - you just need to support it with some defense (or other more pressing options on offense haha. I wouldn't recommend Tervigons if you don't want to do hordes. They certainly can work, but it doesn't sound like it's your style. A list that you might like could look something like this:

Flyrant
Flyrant

Malanthrope (it's forge world but you can do the venomthrope instead - it just isn't as durable)

Rippers (deep strike upgrade, keep minimum squad)
Rippers (same as above)
Rippers (same as above)
Rippers (non-deep strike variant)

Carnifex (could have up to 3 models but tbh I think 3 solo squads would be better
Mawloc
Mawloc

Deathleaper's Assassin Brood Formation:

Deathleaper
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor
Lictor

You have a ton of small scoring units and a LOT of killing power. Much of your army doesn't need or doesn't care about synapse, and your rippers can be anywhere to cap an objective. Try something like that out (the list I wrote there is 1850 but not sure what points value you wanted)

I actually like that list a lot. Rippers were my favorite 'troop' unit.
Is the Deathleaper formation inside the tyranid codex or do I need to buy something else for that?
Are you saying I can have 3 models in a single carnifex unit or that I should have 3 carnifexs in separate units?

The list he showed you would be run as two separate CAD detachments, each with an HQ and 2 troops minimum, which is in the list, but it would double your slots available in the Heavy Support, Elites, and Fast Attack categories. So you would want to run those carnifex as 3 separate units. But yes, you can have up to 3 carnifex in a single unit, it just limits them in some ways.

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
The list he showed you would be run as two separate CAD detachments, each with an HQ and 2 troops minimum, which is in the list, but it would double your slots available in the Heavy Support, Elites, and Fast Attack categories. So you would want to run those carnifex as 3 separate units. But yes, you can have up to 3 carnifex in a single unit, it just limits them in some ways.

Thanks. For clarification are the 5 lictors, 5 units of 3, 1 unit of 5 or just 5 separate lictors.

Where would I find rules on the Malanthrope?

As for upgrades, besides the deep swarm on the rippers are there any highly needed upgrades (and twin devourers on flyrants) or are the last 117 points just for upgrade experimentation?

Edit: Actually, Im assuming 2 twin linked devourers on the Carnifex is ideal but I havent looked at their other weapons. If I take 2 on each of the 3 tyrants it puts me at 1823. The Crushing claws do look good as well.

 Lord Scythican wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
They're most definitely a one-trick pony. The only things worth running are Mawlocs and Flyrants. Anything else is just for flavor that you want.

What about a heavy genestealer list that uses the formations to infiltrate really close to the enemy?

Genestealers can work, but mostly as a Broodlord Delivery system. They rely upon the brood lord to pin units so that they don't die to overwatch. Even then, if the unit is in any kind of terrain, the regular stealers will still die as they will be swinging at initiative 1. That says I have had luck outflanking them and disrupting the enemies back field.

Generally I have seen three styles of Nid lists that have done well in 7th.

1. FMC spam. Load up on flyrants and crones, maybe even the Skyblight formation, malanthropes/venothropes, and over load the enemy with airborne threats.

2. Lictor Shame. Nids version of MSU with a twist. Units of infiltrating lictors to guide mawlocs, or for precision back field deep strike. Small squads of genestealers that infiltrate or outflank. Mawlocks and usually flyrants do the heavy lifting. Lots of alternative deployment and easy to hide units make this a good maelstrom/objective grabbing list. It wins by racking up early points and the game ending before they are tabled. It can win, but is mission dependent.

3. Gunline Nids. Barbed Hierodul, living artillery formation, malanthropes, void shield, and whatever other ranged threats you can put in. Nids easy access to 2+ cover is exploited, backed up with our best ranged threats. The problems are that when you castle up, you have to leave it to grab objectives. Secondly, Nids aren't hard to our range, and ignores cover isn't uncommon. Still, I have seen lists like this do pretty well.

NitosApprentice wrote:
Hey all. I'm just now getting into the 40k scene from other tabletop games. I've chosen the Tyranids. I got a fantastic deal from a friend containing a Flyrant, Tervigon/Tyranofex, 30-ish Termagaunts, A Harpy/Hive Crone, Some Tyranid Warriors and a Carnifex. As well as some bits that I'm not sure what they make. From what I've read on forums, Tyranids only have one decent army with the two Flyrants, 2 Tervigons, 2 Thropes and 60 Termagaunts and maybe a Mawloc. I was wondering if there were other effective units? I haven't really looked into how to build an army yet other than looking at all the units and the points. I mean I havent read how formations work and I don't know the Tyranid formations (I've only just purchased the book). I was hoping to run more bigger models like the Mawloc, Flyrants, Carnifex and such as opposed to overwhelming them with tiny models. Are there formations other than all flying that are effective? I don't need to win tournaments but I would like to stand a chance against armies. Do Tyranids have variety or is it just the same thing with small tweeks?

If we're talking about a really cutthroat, serious tournament-style meta then Tyranids are, unfortunately, pretty deep into one-trick pony territory.

However, in a FLGS game night sort of meta I imagine you won't have to worry about 100% cheesed-out lists *too* much. You've got the makings of a fairly solid force for friendly gaming. At least one Flyrant is a must-have, regardless of competitive level, those 30 termagants as Troop 1 unlock that Tervigon as Troop 2. A (shooty) Carnifex makes a pretty good Heavy Support choice, and the flying Fast Attack bugs are probably the best in that category, so you've got that covered. Mawlocs can be really hit-or-miss, depending on the enemy army, but you'll probably be able to get one of those sweet moments when the bug pops up out of the ground and destroys an enemy unit in the process. The only models that you've acquired in the deal that don't seem like they have some sort of worthwhile use is the warriors (there are better creatures to hold objectives, and better things to keep synapse up with), but I doubt they'll be too much of a liability in a friendly game.

My brother plays Tyranids and while he owns a ton of gaunts, most of his army builds rely on monsters rather than swarms.

His armies usually built around a core of

-1 Flyrant
-1 unit of 30 Termagants
-1 Tervigon
-2 Carnifexes
-1 Mawloc
(Uncannily similar to your current force, actually)

That usually makes about 1k points. And then he just sorta adds whatever he wants to show off on the table when playing larger games. It's never won him a tourney, but he does well enough in meet-and-fight sorts of games.

Venomtrophes are also good and open a whole new area of possibilities if you like to use the in and outside synapse range gone to ground trick.

jade_angel wrote:
I'd consider the Exocrine, Hive Crone and the Venomthrope to be in the Good category, too, with the Malanthrope sitting between Good and Amazing. The Dimachaeron is tricky to use, but dangerous - kind of a major gamble.

I dunno, the Hive Crone doesn't seem to be worth it to me anymore. It just feel too expensive for what it brings to the board.

Those genestealer cultists get to prepare the world for the invasion of the hivefleet. As such, what terrain do you guys suggest when playing with Tyranids?

nareik wrote:
Those genestealer cultists get to prepare the world for the invasion of the hivefleet. As such, what terrain do you guys suggest when playing with Tyranids?

As many ruins that fit on the table.

 krodarklorr wrote:

jade_angel wrote:
I'd consider the Exocrine, Hive Crone and the Venomthrope to be in the Good category, too, with the Malanthrope sitting between Good and Amazing. The Dimachaeron is tricky to use, but dangerous - kind of a major gamble.

I dunno, the Hive Crone doesn't seem to be worth it to me anymore. It just feel too expensive for what it brings to the board.

Its one of my Favorite units IMO a Str 8 Vector Strike, Haywire Missiles Str 6 Flamer FMC is worth it for almost 100pts less than a Dakka Flyrant.

nareik wrote:
Those genestealer cultists get to prepare the world for the invasion of the hivefleet. As such, what terrain do you guys suggest when playing with Tyranids?

If all they get is that 1 formation and no way to change the units then it most likely will be played but not enough to change the nids meta.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

jade_angel wrote:
I'd consider the Exocrine, Hive Crone and the Venomthrope to be in the Good category, too, with the Malanthrope sitting between Good and Amazing. The Dimachaeron is tricky to use, but dangerous - kind of a major gamble.

I dunno, the Hive Crone doesn't seem to be worth it to me anymore. It just feel too expensive for what it brings to the board.

Its one of my Favorite units IMO a Str 8 Vector Strike, Haywire Missiles Str 6 Flamer FMC is worth it for almost 100pts less than a Dakka Flyrant.

I mean, sure, it looks good on paper, but it's ~150 points, T5 with 4-5 Wounds and 4+ save, if it Jinks it can't use it's Flamer, and unlike actual fliers, it can only shoot 2 guns a turn, one of which being Vector Strike if you choose so( plus, of course, Vector Strike was nerfed in 7th). For as Squishy as it is and it's Flamer not being Torrent, no thank you.

It is a fantastic model, though, I do admit.

I've actually found that crones often stay alive for most of the game, as people would rather spend all of their shooting on flyrants.

They're kind of in a sweet spot of being tough enough to survive casual firepower, but low enough on the target priority list that they're unlikely to be focused down.

YMMV of course.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

jade_angel wrote:
I'd consider the Exocrine, Hive Crone and the Venomthrope to be in the Good category, too, with the Malanthrope sitting between Good and Amazing. The Dimachaeron is tricky to use, but dangerous - kind of a major gamble.

I dunno, the Hive Crone doesn't seem to be worth it to me anymore. It just feel too expensive for what it brings to the board.

Its one of my Favorite units IMO a Str 8 Vector Strike, Haywire Missiles Str 6 Flamer FMC is worth it for almost 100pts less than a Dakka Flyrant.

I mean, sure, it looks good on paper, but it's ~150 points, T5 with 4-5 Wounds and 4+ save, if it Jinks it can't use it's Flamer, and unlike actual fliers, it can only shoot 2 guns a turn, one of which being Vector Strike if you choose so( plus, of course, Vector Strike was nerfed in 7th). For as Squishy as it is and it's Flamer not being Torrent, no thank you.

It is a fantastic model, though, I do admit.

They always preformed extremely well for me. MUCH! More than Mawlocs or Dakka Fexes.

Crones are pretty good, IMHO, but they get absolutely mauled by Tau. HYMP Broadsides, dual-MP Crisis or HBC Riptides with Skyfire turn 'em to jelly. (Ghostkeels with the CIR and VT are also dangerous.)

But, against forces that are short on Skyfire or heavy on flyers themselves, they do fairly well. That said, yeah, the drool cannon is a little underwhelming for lacking Torrent, and BS3 is annoying.

Note that FMCs do benefit from Stealth and Shrouded, so with some care, you can keep them moderately well protected a lot of the time.

If the choice is between crones or harpys, I chose crones every time. Vs Armor and flyers, it's an asset. Harpys have never done all that much for me, and struggle to make up their points. Crones struggle too, but at least they pack ranged haywire which is rare in this Dex. That being said they are fragile. My last game I had one one shotted by cleansing flame. Not a must take, but 2nd place in the dex for a FMC. Plus it's fast attack, so it's probably the best choice in a less contested slot.

I've got a huge Tyranid Army and always liked playing Tyranid Warrior heavy builds as well as shooty armies.

And in most editions (4th, 5th, 6th) this worked quite well and in tournaments i did even better then the usual build, which was mostly big bugs and assault only.

Never liked the big bugs builds myself and never fielded a Winged Hive Tyrant builds or Tervigon on general principle.

In current edition Tyranids are a difficult army; they lack the formations and punch that most other armies have and they cannot use allies.

If you go for big bugs now, many armies will just shoot you, the big ones are not as tough as they should be for the points.
If you go for flying circus, you will do well against some enemies.

I field 3 or 4 units of (3-5) warriors, 4 or 5 units of gaunts (half of which have devourers), fire support and a few zoanthropes, a venomthrope and a few big bugs (to draw fire). Fun to play, does well enough against normal armies, not so much against the more extreme ones (Multiple Knights, Eldar jetbikes, armies with loads of dice firepower).

I learned that i had do have to add a unit of warriors with wings (or a flyrant) to get more speed, but flyrants are no answer to Knights.

I prefer playing a flexible army and the way i play Tyranids is till fun for both me and my opponent.

The new Genestealer Cult formation has universal Stealth and infiltrate and you have 2 units(small ones but scary) that can assult turn one. They also have some decent firepower to camp objectives and since they are all stealth and infiltrate they can actully start on the objectives. Add 1250pts of Stompies or more assaultie gribbles and things get just nasty. Since they are battle brothers the Three IC's in the formation can join your shock troops to give them all shrouded 1st turn and stealth for the game. Lots of fun options and utility. I can't wait till the actual codex comes out for them.

NitosApprentice wrote:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
The list he showed you would be run as two separate CAD detachments, each with an HQ and 2 troops minimum, which is in the list, but it would double your slots available in the Heavy Support, Elites, and Fast Attack categories. So you would want to run those carnifex as 3 separate units. But yes, you can have up to 3 carnifex in a single unit, it just limits them in some ways.

Thanks. For clarification are the 5 lictors, 5 units of 3, 1 unit of 5 or just 5 separate lictors.

Where would I find rules on the Malanthrope?

As for upgrades, besides the deep swarm on the rippers are there any highly needed upgrades (and twin devourers on flyrants) or are the last 117 points just for upgrade experimentation?

Edit: Actually, Im assuming 2 twin linked devourers on the Carnifex is ideal but I havent looked at their other weapons. If I take 2 on each of the 3 tyrants it puts me at 1823. The Crushing claws do look good as well.

Yeah the TL devs are pretty much assumed. The claws do look good but more of the time you will wreck whatever you touch. Remember that each Carnifex gets D3 hammer of wrath attacks. With their high base strength plus a bunch of AP 2 attacks on the charge...not a ton that you won't melt as is with just a single fex if you can catch it. Which is why 3 solo squads are a lot better. Sure, kill points are going to be a little uphill for you, but you would be surprised at how resilient a lot of your units are. Throw a solo lictor into ruins and go to ground for 2+ cover. Move flyrant back into range during your movement phase and proceed to pretend you never went to ground in the first place

The list that I put out is actually right at 1849. Make sure you double check your math (and give the electroshock grubs to the hive tyrants).

The rules for the malanthrope are in the new Imperial Armor book (Anphelion Project volume 2) which focuses on all of the tyranids (though I'm sure it's available less legally online for your perusal to test out before you commit to buying one).

The Deathleaper Assassin Brood is 5 solo squads of lictors (and Deathleaper of course lol). It's found in Rising Leviathan 2 (it's like $14 on itunes/the black library IIRC). There are also reviews of the formation in various places online.

What the lictors have going for them (in addition to guiding in Mawloc missiles of death) is that they can maul MSU units and are incredibly resilient for the points. 2+ cover and 3 wounds means you shouldn't die to anything that isn't a LOT more than 50 points. Your opponent will need to shoot a lot of firepower towards it, and will nearly always waste shots. Even if your flyrant isn't nearby to help him get back up (I don't know how this could often be the case unless he's dead ) the Mawloc missile just needs him to be alive. So that's good times.