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2016/03/02 15:43:43
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
If you have a unit that has Infiltrate and Deep Strike, can ICs with Deep Strike attach to them in DS reserve if they don't have the Infiltrate USR? BRB says "An Independent Character without the Infiltrate special rule cannot join a unit of Infiltrators during deployment.", but if they're Deep Striking, are they still Infiltrators?
2016/03/02 15:48:51
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
A lot depends on your definition of "infiltrators". On one hand, simply possessing the skill or having the profession is sufficient to the title at all times. On the other hand, some only consider themselves "painters" when they have a brush in hand (and for some honest ones, not even then).
The Infiltrate rule uses "infiltrators" when describing when and how they set up during deployment. The Infiltrate rule also uses "infiltrators" to indicate that the unit can Outflank, though. And Outflank declarations are handled just like Deep Strike declarations.
So, as much as I would like having a Destroyer Lord and Cryptek Deep Striking with a unit of Flayed Ones, I am going to have to go with a conservative statement of "they are Infiltrators even when being put in to Reserve".
The one model this really hurts is Shrike, though.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
2016/03/02 16:19:05
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
_ghost_ wrote: But is deployment not the part just before the game starts? i mean the act of placing your units on the table before turn one?
Correct. An IC without Infiltrate can join an Infiltrator unit in Turn 1, if close enough.
However, in order to join an IC without Infiltrate to a unit with Infiltrate, the unit must be shown as not "Infiltrators". One attempt to do so us by putting the unit in to Reserves so they do not deploy by Infiltrate. This doesn't hold as much water as one would like, as noted by use of " Infiltrator" being used for a Reserves Deploying option.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
2016/03/02 20:58:17
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
_ghost_ wrote: but. the moment we decide to deploy the unit into DS reserve we are not using the infiltrator rule.
The problem is that the unit cannot elect to go into DS reserve until after normal deployment - meaning the IC is already in reserves or deployed.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2016/03/02 21:29:17
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
_ghost_ wrote:but. the moment we decide to deploy the unit into DS reserve we are not using the infiltrator rule.
Correct, you are not using the Infiltrate rule. However, that does not mean they are not "Infiltrators". The term "Infiltrators" is never defined as a unit doing nor as a unit possessing.
Happyjew wrote:The problem is that the unit cannot elect to go into DS reserve until after normal deployment - meaning the IC is already in reserves or deployed.
There is no such rule. Infiltrate only affects the timing the unit is deployed. The timing of declaring it in to Reserves is never stated as being modified.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
2016/03/02 21:39:25
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
I believe that by placing the IC and the unit in reserve, they are not a part of deployment.
So, technically you are following the rules, as the deep striking unit are being held in reserves, instead of joining the general army deployment.
That rule is just to keep people from infiltrating an IC that couldn't otherwise infiltrate - deep striking is perfectly legal, as long as the IC also has DS.
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by.
2016/03/02 21:42:12
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
_ghost_ wrote:but. the moment we decide to deploy the unit into DS reserve we are not using the infiltrator rule.
Correct, you are not using the Infiltrate rule. However, that does not mean they are not "Infiltrators". The term "Infiltrators" is never defined as a unit doing nor as a unit possessing.
Happyjew wrote:The problem is that the unit cannot elect to go into DS reserve until after normal deployment - meaning the IC is already in reserves or deployed.
There is no such rule. Infiltrate only affects the timing the unit is deployed. The timing of declaring it in to Reserves is never stated as being modified.
Placing a unit in Reserves is done instead of deploying said unit. You do not have a choice to deploy the Infiltrator (or do something instead of deploying) until aftr normal deployment.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2016/03/02 21:43:53
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
_ghost_ wrote:but. the moment we decide to deploy the unit into DS reserve we are not using the infiltrator rule.
Correct, you are not using the Infiltrate rule. However, that does not mean they are not "Infiltrators". The term "Infiltrators" is never defined as a unit doing nor as a unit possessing.
Happyjew wrote:The problem is that the unit cannot elect to go into DS reserve until after normal deployment - meaning the IC is already in reserves or deployed.
There is no such rule. Infiltrate only affects the timing the unit is deployed. The timing of declaring it in to Reserves is never stated as being modified.
Placing a unit in Reserves is done instead of deploying said unit. You do not have a choice to deploy the Infiltrator (or do something instead of deploying) until aftr normal deployment.
So then wouldn't it go like this:
Deployment -> Place IC (without Infiltrate) in Deep Strike Reserve -> Infiltrators -> Place Infiltrators into Deep Strike Reserve and join to IC
2016/03/02 21:45:56
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
_ghost_ wrote:but. the moment we decide to deploy the unit into DS reserve we are not using the infiltrator rule.
Correct, you are not using the Infiltrate rule. However, that does not mean they are not "Infiltrators". The term "Infiltrators" is never defined as a unit doing nor as a unit possessing.
Happyjew wrote:The problem is that the unit cannot elect to go into DS reserve until after normal deployment - meaning the IC is already in reserves or deployed.
There is no such rule. Infiltrate only affects the timing the unit is deployed. The timing of declaring it in to Reserves is never stated as being modified.
Placing a unit in Reserves is done instead of deploying said unit. You do not have a choice to deploy the Infiltrator (or do something instead of deploying) until aftr normal deployment.
So then wouldn't it go like this:
Deployment -> Place IC (without Infiltrate) in Deep Strike Reserve -> Infiltrators -> Place Infiltrators into Deep Strike Reserve and join to IC
Except the unit does not have permission to join the IC, the IC has to be declared as part of the unit when placed in reserves.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
2016/03/02 21:56:01
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
_ghost_ wrote:but. the moment we decide to deploy the unit into DS reserve we are not using the infiltrator rule.
Correct, you are not using the Infiltrate rule. However, that does not mean they are not "Infiltrators". The term "Infiltrators" is never defined as a unit doing nor as a unit possessing.
Happyjew wrote:The problem is that the unit cannot elect to go into DS reserve until after normal deployment - meaning the IC is already in reserves or deployed.
There is no such rule. Infiltrate only affects the timing the unit is deployed. The timing of declaring it in to Reserves is never stated as being modified.
Placing a unit in Reserves is done instead of deploying said unit. You do not have a choice to deploy the Infiltrator (or do something instead of deploying) until aftr normal deployment.
So then wouldn't it go like this:
Deployment -> Place IC (without Infiltrate) in Deep Strike Reserve -> Infiltrators -> Place Infiltrators into Deep Strike Reserve and join to IC
Except the unit does not have permission to join the IC, the IC has to be declared as part of the unit when placed in reserves.
I don't think that's entirely true. BRB: "An Independent Character can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it or, if the unit is in Reserve, by you informing your opponent of which unit it has joined". When you put the Infiltrators in DS Reserve, you say they begin the game joined to the IC who is already there.
2016/03/02 21:59:57
Subject: Infiltrate units with Deep Strike and ICs
Kap'n Krump wrote:I believe that by placing the IC and the unit in reserve, they are not a part of deployment.
Putting units in Reserves is part of deployment.
Happyjew wrote:Placing a unit in Reserves is done instead of deploying said unit. You do not have a choice to deploy the Infiltrator (or do something instead of deploying) until aftr normal deployment.
To be accurate:
When deploying their armies, players can choose not to deploy some of their units, keeping them as Reserves to arrive later.
Units that contain at least one model with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed.
So nothing specific about having to wait to put in Reserves, just a wait to put it on the board.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
