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Hi guys, I'm looking to get an Eldar army, I haven't bought any models yet and thought I'd sort a list out first. Not looking to be hyper competitive, but I don't want to get smashed either,will probably play mostly marines. I really like aspect warriors and eldar vehicles; the falcon has been on my must buy list for about 20 years. I love banshees but from what I've read they're useles. I'm not really a huge fan of the wraith units in terms of look, and given how many times I've heard people complain about the wraithknight I'd rather leave it out. I'm new to 40k gaming (normally fantasy and historicals) but the people I'll be playing are mostly long term players.

Anyway here's what I came up with, any advice would be greatly appreciated.


Combined Arms Detachment


Farseer, Spirit Stone of Ananth'lan, jetbike, 130pts

5 Jet bikes w/scatter lasers 135pts

5 Jet bikes w/scatter lasers 135pts


3 Falcons, Shuriken cannons, Bright lances, holo-fields 465pts (cloudstrike)


Aspect Host +1BS

3 units of 6 fire dragons including exarch 426pts


Aspect Host +1BS

10 Dire Avengers including exarch, power weapon & shimmershield
Wave serpent w/scatter lasers, shuriken cannon, holo-fields 300pts

7 Swooping Hawks including exarch 122pts

7 Warp Spiders 133pts

Total: 1846pts

When it comes to Eldar there aren't many broken units any more just some are a bit meh. Rangers were awesome in 5th ed, but got nerfed in 6th and 7th. Vypers sadly aren't that useful as I love the model and Storm Guardians aren't that great, plus very expensive to buy (you need a plastic guardian kit then a few upgrade kits)

Banshees were bad until last update, they've got buffs to movement and no longer strike last when opponents are in cover due to wargear rules.

Your list seems very fast moving and looks like it'll have a lot of synergy. I have a WK but never use it, just doesn't seem fair when its so OP.

I don't play a lot any more but I can't see many flaws in the list. The hawks can hopefully deal with any flyers. Fire Dragons should be able to deal with anything including knights, don't be afraid to assault with them if your in a bind. Gargantuans can't over watch and your high initiative means you'll strike first with melta bombs, I've taken a few hull points off by doing that, with squads that would've got blasted in their next turn.

The only downside to having squadron vehicles and everybody on board transports, is that you may only start with 6 possible targets for your enemy to aim for. I guess your putting the fire dragons into the falcons. That'll mean all 6 units (3 FD and 3 Falcon) are one big target at start of game once you enter play. You could split them into three separate targets as you haven't used any heavy slots, but you would lose cloud strike. They are fast moving though and you can send them in different directions, so not sure how much cloudstrike is needed

Thanks so much for your reply, I think I'll be seeing a lot of drop pods so the idea was to deep strike the falcons with the dragons in and counter whatever it is that shows up. I had one idea to drop the exarch from the dire avengers, split the bikes into 3 squad of 3 and lose a couple of warp spiders; this would free up enough points to take an Autarch with swooping hawk wings and a fusion gun, with potentially so many reserves his path of command ability could be really valuable. What do you think?

To be perfectly frank, Banshees aren't terrible. The problem they run into is that they're vastly outshined in efficiency by the rest of the Codex. They are after all rather cheap AP3, overwatch ignoring, fast infantry.

The only real down side to trying to get them functional is lack of assault transport which can be resolved by either relying upon their enhanced movement or the Battle Brothers alliance matrix.

Thanks for the feedback, I'm quite keen on going straight eldar with no allies.

Here's the latest version:

Autarch, Swooping Hawk Wings, Fusion Guns 95pts

Farseer, Spirit Stone of Ananth'lan, jetbike, 130pts

3 Jet bikes w/scatter lasers 81

3 Jet bikes w/scatter lasers 81

3 Jet bikes w/scatter lasers 81

Crimson Hunter 140pts

3 Falcons, Shuriken cannons, Bright lances, holo-fields 465pts (cloudstrike)


Aspect Host +1BS

3 units of 6 fire dragons including exarch 426pts


Aspect Host +1BS

10 Banshees including exarch with executioner 150pts

6 Swooping Hawks including exarch 122pts

5 Warp Spiders 133pts

Total: 1850pts


I think the dire avengers squad is probably better, especially with bs5, however banshees are cool. Also I've heard great things about the crimson hunter, and anti flyer was a concern. Although I'm concerned I won't really have an answer for horde armies. Would putting the banshees in a serpent and dropping the hunter be a better option? Or even keeping the avengers but changing the serpent for a hunter?

I love the banshee models, and I still have a soft spot for them from when I got back into the hobby during 5th ed. A ten man squad would shred marines and terminators, as they were ap2 back then

They don't really fit in this list though, giving them +1BS is a waste. They want to be in an aspect host with scorpions and getting +1WS. If you do take them, they definitely dont want to be footslogging, they will need a WS.

Autarch are nice, and work well with the flyer reserve roll. If using the hunter, you want to come on board after your opponents flyer is on, so being able to add +1 to the result can cause you to fail to bring yours on, until you want to. I've had mixed results with my hunter. First game he took out a SW Stormfang, 2nd game he got two tanks, but hasn't done anything last three games. I always take the exarch upgrade, prevision shots can prove useful. I was able to slay the warlord with some lucky dice rolls

While you might waver back and forth between model choices, go ebay as much as you can. Screw GW's insane prices. I am a 12 year 40k veteran and can clearly state new stuff is over priced and a little toothbrush paint clean up is worth the time.

6 Hawks, not 7, is okay, exarch included. Go ebay for the spare bird.

Skip the Stone of Anath until you go whole hog on the big Seer Council. One farseer will likely only get off two of his 3 or 4 powers anyway.

Cheers for the advice. Yeah I've stopped buying anything from them since age of shitmar hit, not even paint, I'm a 22 year fantasy vet and that was unforgiveable. Everything will be ebayed. If you play historicals you'll know just how ridiculous their prices, and their claims to produce the best models are. The company's a fast sinking ship, they've had huge numbers of long term staff leave since aos came out too. That said I've always fancied an eldar army, they look so good to paint.

Personally i would skip the falcons and either get 3 Crimson hunters for the Crimson Death formation or some Forgeworld Hornets. If you like the bigger skimmers then look for the Eldar Lynx and warphunter from Forgeworld, beautiful models and really good ingame.

Aspect host is nice but i would stick to 1 formation with Warpspiders and maybe Swooping hawks.

I would get a few more units of jetbikes with scatter lasers for more objective secured troops.

Eldar are a great army to both paint and play but in my view you will need something tougher than what you have planned for 1850 points. So i would definetly get a Wraithknight despite what people say about it. Get the forgeworld version and magnetize it and you can choose between every loadout possible.

Trouble with more jetbikes and putting a WK in there, is it's becoming a cheese list. They don't go down too well in casual play.

I do think the Falcons and 3 fire dragons squads maybe a bit overkill and a points sink but if you want the 3 falcons then go for it.

I only roll with one squad in a WS and also some Wraithguard (D weapons are awesome). I use the Avatar instead of the WK, much cheaper for you to buy off ebay plus he can smash a Knight in CC..........he doesn't quite fit with your fast moving army though

Thanks guys some really interesting ideas, I checked out the lynx it's a gorgeous model, is it generally considered ok to play with? I know some people aren't ok with forgeworld models. Would certainly be a cool alternative to a wraithknight and similar points. The hornet's beautiful too do you take just the one or a full squadron for special rules? That's the somewhat frustrating thing with the squad rules, they reward duplicate choices, would have been nice say if you could take 3 of a mix of nightspinners, falcons and fire prisms and gain some kind of bonus. I'm definitely a big fan of the skimmers. Would love a scorpion or cobra, although I doubt I'd ever be able to use them. I was wondering why at 1850pts people don't just run 2 revenants in tournaments? I'm guessing they'd never allow it, they seem incredibly broken.

How do you tend to build around the Avatar (again gorgeous forgeworld model, the spear one is so cool)? Do you find it effective? Also can the Avatar be your warlord anymore?

Trying to strike a balance between anti-infantry, anti tank and anti-flyer and ideally having some combat oomph is quite hard, I can certainly see why the WK is so popular. I suspect I'd be seeing a lot of drop pods, how do you generally counter those?

Lynx is a heavy support choice so you could take 3 in a CAD + a Wraithknight if you want to. If your meta is ok with forgeworld in general there is no reason not to look at the lynx, it is not OP in anyway.

The Hornets are usually taken in squadrons so either go for 2 (1 in each squadron) or 4 (2 in each squadron) or more if you really like them

Lynx, warp hunter, hornets etc all have their rules in the latest book Doom of Myemeara 2nd Edition.

Vs drop pods one tactic is to null deploy or close to null deploy e.g. you leave one or two tough units on the table that will survive, then the coming turn move in with the rest of the Army, hence why the Wraithknight is good. You deploy the WK in cover, out of LoS etc, and hold out until your reserves arrive using the Autharch reserve manipulation.

Another list using some forgeworld stuff, probably not the most competitive but a lot of models I like.

Autarch, swooping hawk wings, fusion gun

Farseer, jetbike, spirit stone (should I drop stone?)

5 dire avengers
Wave serpent, scatter laser, shuriken cannon, holofields

3 jetbikes w/scatter lasers

3 jetbikes w/scatter lasers

Hornet with 2 pulse lasers

Hornet with 2 pulse lasers

10 banshees including exarch with executioner
Wave serpent, scatter laser, shuriken cannon, holofields

Falcon with bright lance, shuriken cannon, holofields

Lynx with bright lance and holofields.


Aspect host +1bs

6 fire dragons including exarch

7 swooping hawks including exarch

6 warp spiders (exarch seems a waste with the formation bonus)

Total: 1850pts

Think the almost fully mechanized list would look really cool on the table, no wraithknight. Not much antiflyer though, and it's perhaps not the toughest list but I think the speed and variety would make it quite fun to use. Could drop the hornets in favour of a crimson hunter exarch I guess. How does the night wing compare with the crimson hunter?

If the Autarch starts in reserve can you still use his path of command ability?

Ielthan wrote:
Thanks guys some really interesting ideas, I checked out the lynx it's a gorgeous model, is it generally considered ok to play with? I know some people aren't ok with forgeworld models.

Of the super cheese you can take, the Lynx is one of the Tops. It's the Ignores Cover, big template that hurts. Here in the USA, our ITC has banned it from tourney play for that reason.

A single WK isn't so bad. There's plenty ways to bag one: Psy Shriek, Grav Guns, most other eldar guns wound automatically on s, etc. And aren't there WolfStars still out there? Thunder Plungers? Hammers?

My WK's foot is in my avatar picture (stepping on the speeder) and I'd state that he prolly dies 50% of the time. It is pretty much a ubiquitous auto-include unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ielthan wrote:
Farseer, jetbike, spirit stone (should I drop stone?)

If you mean the Stone of Anath'lan, then yes, drop it. It really only pays off if you have a full Seer Council trying to pump out 2 or 3 point spells.

Ielthan wrote:
10 banshees including exarch with executioner Wave serpent, scatter laser, shuriken cannon, holofields

These are sad pandas. See, the girls get out of the boat and wait a turn, because there is no Assault out of a Close Topped vehicle. Major suckage. They really need Dark Eldar Allies to give 'em a Raider. But that's Kabalite Warrior and Prostitute (HQ) tax.

Ielthan wrote:
6 fire dragons including exarch

7 swooping hawks including exarch

6 warp spiders (exarch seems a waste with the formation bonus)

Reduce the Hawks to 6, 7 aren't needed.
Spiders: Include the Exarch and make him your Warlord. Given Iron Resolve, he's the Bad Ass you can keep alive to deny your opponent Slay the Warorld.

FireDs and no delivery system? :( I own FireDs too, but they are out matched by Hawks for killing vehicles for range and points cost, given that FireDs need a Wave S to get decent range, and even then, Hawks beat 'em.

Thanks for your reply.

I wasn't under the impression the lynx pulsar ignores cover? It doesn't state it in it's profile? I would have thought the WK was a lot more feared than the lynx tbh. I'll ask around my local group and gauge opinion on whether it's ok for them or not.

The banshees are in because I like the fluff and models, I'm not looking to make a hyper competitive list, just one that works really. I don't want to run allies atm, I'd rather go just straight eldar. I'll drop the stone from the farseer and alter the squad sizes on the aspect warriors. Making the scorpion exarch the warlord would feel very gamey to me, I'm not sure I want to play like that with 40k, I filth up the fantasy tournament scene enough for several game systems!

The fire dragons ride in the Falcon.

Ielthan wrote:
Thanks for your reply.

I wasn't under the impression the lynx pulsar ignores cover? It doesn't state it in it's profile? I would have thought the WK was a lot more feared than the lynx tbh. I'll ask around my local group and gauge opinion on whether it's ok for them or not.

You're welcome.

Maybe I'm wrong and it is not the 'Lynx'. But there was some FW eldar skimmer that was tossed on account of its AP2 or 3, Ignore Cover, high STR, mega template. And, yes, far better to ask your local crew instead of some guy 8 time zones away.

This "ban" of the lynx you speak of is as far as i know only related to ITC, which is a heavy house ruled pseudo ruleset of 40k. So in any normal 40k game it would be just fine. And the weapon in mention is the Torrent Hellstorm Sonic Lance which is unfortunately not produced for the lynx anymore. The only Lynx version you can buy now has the D str Pulsar Cannons, which is also good. If you want some alternative hellstorm templates in an ITC environment then the Deathshroud skathack WK is the best choice.

Can I ask how important is it to have an assault capability in your army with eldar? As much as I think Banshees are cool I was thinking some Shadow Spectres would be awesome, or would that just be overkill on the jump infantry? I'm concerned that the list isn't tough enough, and doesn't have the abliity to hold or take objectives, without allies or wraith units how could I go about fixing this?

In my view having assault capabilities as Eldar is not important nor something to build for. Mostly because shooting (especially Eldar shooting) is strong and also because other armies do assault better. Eldar strengths are shooting and psychics and since shooting is the most reliable it is often there most of the points go unit wise.
Shadow Spectres are really cool and very flexible but they are also very expensive points wise which is why other units are chosen instead such as scatterbikes, warpspiders etc. That said, without allies or wraiths of any kind your best bet are Objective Secured Scatter Laser Jetbikes followed by, Warpspiders, Hornets and then some Heavy Support such as Vaul's wrath battery and some of the ForgeWorld tanks. Crimson Hunters can be an ok choice too but a bit unreliable due to reserves etc, depends on your meta though.

Hmm ok. I have to be honest a wraithknight would really solve a lot of the issues, but fielding a wraithknight and a lynx I feel would lose me a lot of friends fast. I'm quite keen on keeping the skimmer theme, a couple of hornets and a small unit of shadow spectres (3 including exarch is 85pts, although would they achieve anything?) would be very cool. The warp hunter looks pretty bad ass but again I think combined with the lynx it may be a bit much. I'm not too keen on support batteries as I'm trying to keep the army very mobile, what's the opinion on the night spinner? I never hear of anyone taking them, can a single 1 do much or would it not fit the list?

I was also thinking the firestorm looks cool perhaps instead of the crimson hunter for anti air, not totally sure I can take it in a bound list though, do you need corsairs? In terms of aesthetics I much prefer the phoenix and nightwing to the crimson hunter, but the hunter look a lot better rules wise. I get the impression my local meta fields a lot of drop pod and assault oriented marine armies (they love playing horus heresy), I've no idea if this would be good or bad for this sort of list to face.

Picked up the swooping hawks and fire dragons for pretty cheap off ebay, not 100% if the swooping hawks are the current models.

Leaning towards something like this:

CAD:

Autarch, fusion gun, swooping hawk wings

Farseer, jet bike.

10 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent, shurken cannon hull weapon, twin linked shuriken cannon turret weapon (can't find the 5 points for the scatter laser), holo fields

3 Jetbikes w/scatter lasers

3 Jetbikes w/scatter lasers


Crimson Hunter Exarch, 2 Bright lances

Hornet Squadron - 2 Hornets with 2 Pulse Lasers

3 Shadow Spectres including Exarch


Falcon, bright lance, shuriken cannon, holofields

Lynx, Pulsar, bright lance, holofields


Aspect Host +1BS

6 fire dragons including exarch (ride in falcon)

6 Swooping Hawks including exarch

6 Warp Spiders

TOTAL: 1850pts


I'm a little unsure as to whether I can take the skyhunter formation for the Lynx or not, the Mymeara force org stuff is confusing.

First of all you should always get the models you like of course. Your latest list has a decent mix of things so i would not rate it OP in any way. You could definitely throw in a wraithknight without feeling guilty
If you like the skimmer theme go for that, scatterbikes, waveserpents, falcons, Hornets, lynx etc sounds awesome.

Firestorm is ok but not really anything spectacular, scatterbikes could fill the role as AA if really needed. Nightwing could be considered better than the Crimson Hunter but they are pretty equal. Crimson Death formation tips the odds in favor of the Hunter though. Nightspinner is ok but the Warpspiders do it better, the Deathshroud wraithknight is the best spinner alternative though.

If you know you will face lots of droppod lists then going second is most of the time the best choice, so you need to leave some tough units on the table and then call in reserves. But it depends on the list of course.

The Lynx is 0-1 per Core in the Skyhunter Squadron if you take a Pale Court warhost but you have a CAD so no.

Thanks so much for your advice man you've been a great help. I guess I could bring a tougher list with the wraithknight to tougher games, and run the straight skimmer list in my more normal games. It's that issue of leaving something tough on the table that can take the alpha strike. It's kind of annoying how op they made the wraithknight in that it massively distorts making lists. It's kind of like the banner of the world dragon was for high elves in wfb, no matter how you built or comped it was simply too good to leave out.


Alternative with wraithknight:

CAD:

Autarch, fusion gun, swooping hawk wings

Farseer, jet bike.


5 Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent, shuriken cannon hull weapon, twin linked shuriken cannon turret weapon (can't find the 5 points for the scatter laser), holo fields

3 Jetbikes w/scatter lasers

3 Jetbikes w/scatter lasers


Crimson Hunter Exarch, 2 Bright lances


Falcon, bright lance, shuriken cannon, holofields

Lynx, Pulsar, bright lance, holofields


Wraithknight, ghostglaive & shield, 2 scatter lasers.


Aspect Host +1BS

6 fire dragons including exarch (ride in falcon)

6 Swooping Hawks including exarch

6 Warp Spiders

TOTAL: 1849pts

I think for the time being though I'll build towards the skimmer list, think the variety could look really cool on the table and should be a fun painting challenge. I also kind of feel like the skimmer list is somewhat unique, which even if things aren't going smoothly I think would make it a joy to use.

@Ielthan
The list looks good to go. Play it.

X078 wrote:
This "ban" of the lynx you speak of is as far as i know only related to ITC,

Correct.

X078 wrote:
which is a heavy house ruled pseudo ruleset of 40k.

I'll take exception to this.

It's an FAQ that makes 40k tournaments workable given GW's not-so-tourney-friendly rules and missions, for the average, mid-range player, to make tourneys more enjoyable.

And a lot more that has nothing to do with nerfs, bans or rulings (the community aspect).

And, any Tourney Official or group of players who doesn't wanna use their nerfs/rulings/clarifications for events can play how they want, and *still* report in for points earnings.

And that's the Truth.

(with a tip of the hat to Lily Tomlin).