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The pointy ear space Elves. The natural evolution of the archtype in fantasy depictions of Elves.

Few in number, elegant to a fault, and highly skilled.

In 40k they live in massive craftworlds with incredible technology with unsurpassed quality of life compared to other less sophisticated races. But let's analyze the actual structure of eldar society. I'm not completely sure how democratic Craftworld society is but I'm sure 100% there is absolutely zero democracy in the Imperium of Man which is a fascist police state. But more important here is self-determination and choice. Eldar Society no one owns you. In the IoM the states owns you.

First of all, there is no poverty or need in craftworlds. They have incredible technology that makes work unnecessary. This sloth and excess was the original reason why they created Slaneesh. So essentially imagine it like modern-day NORWAY where no one "needs" to work but many do. So work is a choice. There is massive freedom and pursuit of happiness in that fact alone.

In the Imperium you have massive poverty in hive worlds and low quality of living on lower quality worlds. Imperium is chaotic, it is oppressive, and there is no CHOICE for 99% of people. You must work to survive. Eldar do not have to do anything.

Also it is important to note the equality of genders here. Eldar Society have women on equal par with males like in modern-day Scandinavia. They have female farseers, female warriors, even the Eldar models in 40k have probably the MOST female sculpts in the hobby. In the imperium females are almost nowhere to be found in the Imperial Guard or the Space Marines and are NOT in positions of power. This is a fact. Sure there might be few exceptions here and there but it is nowhere near as progressive as the wider Eldar Society.

Yet the Eldar, who live 1000s of years, still choose self-betterment. They go on paths... of the warrior, of the artist, of the wraith-contruct makers, countless paths to choose from. What's more is you can switch if you don't like your hobby/job. Sure they have some rigid paths and traditions BUT at any point you can choose to ditch the craftworld and join the Consairs or Dark Eldar and live a life of piracy and raiding. Try doing that as a human - leave your job and you will get shot like in Stalinist Russia. Or you could live as a hippie as an exodite on a nature preserved world. Or join the Harlequins and go hunt Chaos if that's what float your boat... basically do whatever the heck you want. You're Eldar. In the 40k universe you're already in the 1%. Miserable simple humans WISH they were Eldar... haha but I'm getting off topic.

Craftworld Eldar due to the destruction of their race due to excess have mastered the art of self-diligence and temperance. They are moderate and controlled in all things. Humans have much less control. Humans fall to Chaos and excess all the time. Or genestealer cultists, etc.

Essentially the Eldar, apart from their psyhic attributes, are where the humans would be in 100,000 years from now if they didn't decide to govern and self-organize themselves in a backward superstitious hyper-isolationist and hyper oppressive/aggressive state that essentially feeds on itself. There is zero progress in the Imperium, but more importantly for this discussion almost ZERO pursuit of happiness and the right of self-determination. It is Tsarist Russia in 1910. It is horrendously stagnant and oppression is the only thing that holds it together. Ironically though, it is the choice of the citizens of the imperium that chooses to organize itself in such a way. Like North Korea or Venezula... ultimately the humans deserve the government they get.

In this way isn't Eldar society and quality of life superior in every way?

On average I would say yes. At the peak of Imperial good living, such as on Paradise worlds or well governed worlds like Macragge, I would say no.

Eldar are incredibly self repressed because they fear that their true nature will lead them to being consumed by Slaanesh. They might have tech and their basic needs fulfilled but they aren't allowed to be who they naturally would be so its hard to imagine they would ever be happy. Also the standard issue stick they all seem to have up their gak hole must be really uncomfortable

I wouldn't say Eldar society is better off than IoM in that the Eldar are doomed and they know it. They fear for their souls and are clinging on to delay the inevitable. Humanity for the most part has some amount of hope with their Emperor and champions like the Space Marines who will save them from the threats of xenos and chaos. Humanity definitely isn't better off but its that they both are miserable, just in different ways.

Yes, it is. I doubt even the most idyllic paradise world in the Imperium would compare to the standard of living on your average craftworld.

Better technology = better standard of living and Eldar tech >>>>>>>>>>>>> Imperium tech.

On top of that, the Eldar regard every Eldar life as precious, while the Imperium sees it's citizens as numbers to throw away. It's not really a contest in terms of standard of living.

However, to compare the two is unfair, I think - the Imperium doesn't have many of the advantages the Eldar do and have to make do with what they have.

++Xenos sympathizers detected.++
++ Initiating purge.++
++The Emperor protects.++

I don't know about their standard of living, but their souls are more delicious when they get dragged screaming into eternal torment.

I expect that the majority of humanity will be lower class hyve wolders or perhaps setlers on rough worlds.

The majority of the Eldar population will be craftwolders.

We all know that the living conditions of imperial hive worlds are the best in the universe. Those eldar wished that they could be as lucky as those fine underhivers.

DorianGray wrote:
The pointy ear space Elves. The natural evolution of the archtype in fantasy depictions of Elves.

Few in number, elegant to a fault, and highly skilled.

In 40k they live in massive craftworlds with incredible technology with unsurpassed quality of life compared to other less sophisticated races. But let's analyze the actual structure of eldar society. I'm not completely sure how democratic Craftworld society is but I'm sure 100% there is absolutely zero democracy in the Imperium of Man which is a fascist police state. But more important here is self-determination and choice. Eldar Society no one owns you. In the IoM the states owns you.

First of all, there is no poverty or need in craftworlds. They have incredible technology that makes work unnecessary. This sloth and excess was the original reason why they created Slaneesh. So essentially imagine it like modern-day NORWAY where no one "needs" to work but many do. So work is a choice. There is massive freedom and pursuit of happiness in that fact alone.

In the Imperium you have massive poverty in hive worlds and low quality of living on lower quality worlds. Imperium is chaotic, it is oppressive, and there is no CHOICE for 99% of people. You must work to survive. Eldar do not have to do anything.

Also it is important to note the equality of genders here. Eldar Society have women on equal par with males like in modern-day Scandinavia. They have female farseers, female warriors, even the Eldar models in 40k have probably the MOST female sculpts in the hobby. In the imperium females are almost nowhere to be found in the Imperial Guard or the Space Marines and are NOT in positions of power. This is a fact. Sure there might be few exceptions here and there but it is nowhere near as progressive as the wider Eldar Society.

Yet the Eldar, who live 1000s of years, still choose self-betterment. They go on paths... of the warrior, of the artist, of the wraith-contruct makers, countless paths to choose from. What's more is you can switch if you don't like your hobby/job. Sure they have some rigid paths and traditions BUT at any point you can choose to ditch the craftworld and join the Consairs or Dark Eldar and live a life of piracy and raiding. Try doing that as a human - leave your job and you will get shot like in Stalinist Russia. Or you could live as a hippie as an exodite on a nature preserved world. Or join the Harlequins and go hunt Chaos if that's what float your boat... basically do whatever the heck you want. You're Eldar. In the 40k universe you're already in the 1%. Miserable simple humans WISH they were Eldar... haha but I'm getting off topic.

Craftworld Eldar due to the destruction of their race due to excess have mastered the art of self-diligence and temperance. They are moderate and controlled in all things. Humans have much less control. Humans fall to Chaos and excess all the time. Or genestealer cultists, etc.

Essentially the Eldar, apart from their psyhic attributes, are where the humans would be in 100,000 years from now if they didn't decide to govern and self-organize themselves in a backward superstitious hyper-isolationist and hyper oppressive/aggressive state that essentially feeds on itself. There is zero progress in the Imperium, but more importantly for this discussion almost ZERO pursuit of happiness and the right of self-determination. It is Tsarist Russia in 1910. It is horrendously stagnant and oppression is the only thing that holds it together. Ironically though, it is the choice of the citizens of the imperium that chooses to organize itself in such a way. Like North Korea or Venezula... ultimately the humans deserve the government they get.

In this way isn't Eldar society and quality of life superior in every way?

Well, they don't really have a choice. They can either work hard 24/7 to an utter dedication of one tiny detail, or head to Commargh and hope they are ruthless and vicious enough to survive there, or take their chance as a Corsair and then hope not to die because then they get devoured by a hungry space god(dess). There is no pleasure or enjoyment in Eldar society because to take an inch of self-enjoyment would be to invite Slaanesh a mile into your heart. Its not touched on, but I would assume that if a particular Eldar decided they didn't want to do that anymore and just be carefree, they'd probably be exiled or executed by the rest of society because it would endanger them too.

The Eldar are a bit like the Jedi in the prequel films. They have immense power and influence if they wanted to. The Senate consults with them, important people come to them for aid, they are the peacekeepers, they have the force. Eldar are hyperintelligent and their psychic powers are immense, they could easily wipe out the Imperium is each Eldar focused their psychic might for battle on the level of a Farseer while still doing their normal Aspect Warrior level physical prowess. In both cases they must restrain themselves and hinder themselves from their desires because it is dangerous.


The actual quality of their life maybe be objectively better, but Eldar cannot risk enjoying it. A human might have to get by on slop and rat-burgers (Demolition Man style) and maybe a monthly shower, whereas an Eldar might dine on the finest fish and poultry every meal, but the eldar would find it no different to the slop and rat burger.

Mu.

Or, to the unitiated: I cannot answer the question due to incorrect assumptions.

You ask if the Eldar society and quality of life is superior to that of the Imperium.

I say: Their quality of life is better, yes. They are less likely to go hungry. They work less hours. They are better supported through disability. Should they die, their children are cared for.

I say: Their society is not better. They have no personal freedoms. They have no freedom of expression unless they are on an Artistic path, in which case they can do nothing but express themselves. They have no democracy. There is no freedom of speech save to those who choose to secede from Eldar society.

How is there no freedom of speech or personal freedom?

Yeah how do the Eldar have no freedoms?

And how on earth is the Imperium any better at those things than you imagine the Eldar to be?

Eldar have to follow the path system. If you refuse to follow the path system, you get exiled. You have to leave the Craftworld and become a Ranger (Rangers are really just homeless Eldar trying to survive), and you can only rejoin your Craftworld brethren while your helping them out during a war.

This isn't because of some government tyrant. They follow the path system, because if they don't, they may take something to excess, which will immediately draw the attention of Slaanesh, which will result in them slowly getting weaker and dying the longer they keep at it, and also possibly put everyone else in the Craftworld at risk of some kind of daemonic interference or incursion.

So the lack of personal freedom in Craftworld Eldar society is due to necessity.

However, Eldar also are pretty forgiving of their own compared to the Imperium. You can generally leave the Path of the Exile whenever you're ready to play by the Craftworld's rules again. And there are a lot of paths to choose from, so even though you're stuck in one path and have to focus completely on it for a set period of time, you still have more options than the average hive worlder.

The Eldar path system takes a lot of self discipline, but overall it's a lot better than being on the low end of the Imperium totem pole. Unless you get killed and your Craftworld buddies fail to protect your spirit stone. Then it gets a lot worse.

They do have a super high standard of living, but that doesn't mean I would want to live there. I would still choose to live in the Tau Empire. For all the Eldars intellect they are fools and from a fluff perspective they drive me nuts.

They could easily be diplomatic kings. Okay sure you need to show the other races your willing to sacrifice yourself for them but eventually some will learn your willing to die for them they will die for you. When you save one single Eldar and doom an entire planet it doesn't ingratiate you to your own tasks. If they seek the destruction or weakening of Chaos than any sentient being who isn't corrupted could be one more number to your Empire. The Eldar lore bothers me so much.

You might have to sacrifice one Eldar, but so what if you gain the alliance of other factions willing to fight for you who do have numbers? Sharing some of your advanced technology like the Tau do would make living standards go up all across the galaxy. An Eldar lives for thousands of years and your telling me they don't have the patience to teach people their science for a few years?

Instead they are all being too edgy and emotional in a different way to the Dark Eldar and trying to act like they are too good and don't need help when they are doomed. Their "highly evolved" emotions are so advanced its killing their Empire. So I have to reason if their emotions got so powerful to sway their reasoning like so then they are an evolutionary dead end at this point.

Only Eldar willing to adapt to change can save their people. If they were willing to work with other species like the Tau I would probably be an Eldar player, but instead they squander their great gifts to doom Quadrillions to save mere tens of thousands.

If the Tau in 40 year lifespans can make allies of smaller Imperium worlds don't tell me an Eldar couldn't.

Eldar are easily my most disliked faction in the game if you couldn't tell. I always find it weird how the Eldar have the "paths" system when that is pure focused overboard excess. it it excessive to have to do this one thing for thousands of years, but hey Slannesh doesn't care somehow. It is an excess to work. What if they just end up creating another Chaos God of forced labor?

DorianGray wrote:
So essentially imagine it like modern-day NORWAY where no one "needs" to work but many do. So work is a choice. There is massive freedom and pursuit of happiness in that fact alone.

Pardon my real world ignorance but how can Norway exist with nobody needing to work? How could any culture exist with all work purely voluntary?

 JustALittleOrkish wrote:

DorianGray wrote:
So essentially imagine it like modern-day NORWAY where no one "needs" to work but many do. So work is a choice. There is massive freedom and pursuit of happiness in that fact alone.

Pardon my real world ignorance but how can Norway exist with nobody needing to work? How could any culture exist with all work purely voluntary?

Norway is immune to your facts and logic!

To much heresy stand by to be purged

pm713 wrote:How is there no freedom of speech or personal freedom?

DorianGray wrote:Yeah how do the Eldar have no freedoms?

Robin5t wrote:And how on earth is the Imperium any better at those things than you imagine the Eldar to be?

The Eldar don't have it easier by a longshot.

The Craftworlders are expected to enter one of several "paths". If you don't, or rock the proverbial boat, you end up as an outcast, ranger, or corsair (piracy). That "path" is what you are expected to focus on until you master it, or your services in that "path" are no longer needed. Then, if possible, you can move on to another path.

The Craftworlds (the pinnacle of current Eldar civilization) might be nice, clean, and quiet places. But the culture and mindset revolves around preserving something of their culture, and staying out of the grip of Slaanesh for one more day. Personal freedom and expression would be somewhat limited in such a culture.

With the vile filth from Commorragh, from the time you get up (if you're lucky), to the time your head hits the pillow (if you're lucky), you constantly dance with Darwin. Even if you have the patronage of a powerful figure (which probably LOWERS your life expectancy in a culture ripe with murderous, ambitious types). You have to carefully weigh what you say and do every moment (even then your mouth might get you killed). And like the Craftworlders, a key focus is staying out of Slaanesh's grip for one more day.

The Exodites enjoy the most freedoms of the three organized Eldar societies. But they live a rustic existence comparable to some Feral and Feudal Worlds in the Imperium.


The Imperium isn't some monolithic entity. As long as your tithes get paid, you don't rebel against the Imperium, and worship the Emperor in some form, the central government on Terra doesn't give a damn how the locals govern themselves. Planets in the God Emperor's Realm run the whole spectrum, from nice places to live to complete shitholes. From egalitarian societies to tyrannical regimes. Since 40k is a grimdark wargame, the war zones and shitholes are what you hear most about. The only time you hear of the nicer places is when they are getting ready to get screwed over big time.

So, no. I don't think the Eldar have it better than the Imperium of Man.

You're completely wrong.

Eldar can change from path to path as they please. They aren't required to serve a term or master anything.

 Robin5t wrote:
You're completely wrong.

Eldar can change from path to path as they please. They aren't required to serve a term or master anything.

But they are stuck on the path for as long as they choose to remain on it without doing anything else. If you're a gardener, you are only ever going to do gardening until you master it. If you are just going to flit between disciplines when it suits you then there's little point. Plus I do believe you cannot return to a previous path so once you leave you miss your chance to master that facet of life.

 Robin5t wrote:
You're completely wrong.

Eldar can change from path to path as they please. They aren't required to serve a term or master anything.

Paths are not simple career choices that one can simply jump from one to another on a whim, with the exception of becoming an Outcast or Pirate. Paths are a form of emotional and psychic control/protection mechanism via focus. They require intense, all-encompassing focus on the tasks involved and mastery, tapping into their emotions for maximum efficiency. Eldar typically master one Path before accepting another, building up skills and knowledge to aid them in other Paths over time. To jump from one to another before mastery, unless forced to for reasons beyond his/her control, is to tempt the shiftlessness and emotional chaos that doomed them.


As for "serving a term", Eldar from the various Path can be required to serve as Guardians, which is a brief foray onto the Path of the Warrior. That was what I was getting at with that one, even though I never used the phrase "serving a term".

Lot of people saying things without evidence backing up their statements. Eldar can change paths without spending a very long time on them (though it still isn't switching from one day to the next) as shown by the following description of the Path system way of life:

But like all journeys, the Path is different for each of us. Some wander for a long while in one place; some spread their travels wide and visit many places for a short time while others remain for a long time to explore every nook and turn; some of us lose our way and leave the Path for a time or forever; and some of us find dead ends and become trapped.

-BL novel, Path of the Outcast preface (but also repeated in each of the preceding Eldar Path novels)

One common misconception is that Craftworld life is monk-like. The Path books show the existence of a Path called the Path of the Dreamer, which is literally spending all day sitting around daydreaming (with or without the aid of psychotropic drugs). All their physical needs are looked after while they daydream. It is only monk-like in comparison to the Dark Eldar and Corsair lifestyle in that Eldar have to make a choice and stick with it for a reasonable length of time instead of changing around as their whims dictate.

 JustALittleOrkish wrote:

Pardon my real world ignorance but how can Norway exist with nobody needing to work? How could any culture exist with all work purely voluntary?

They can't, but Norway is one of the few (only?) countries that wouldn't need to have any state debt. Their small population and large oil industry basically means the government has been borrowing money cheaply and reinvesting it for higher returns.

As for the OP we don't really know how Eldar think. They might look human but their thought processes are alien to us. It could be an Eldar takes joy in following his path, but who knows? General standard of living is certainly higher.

Yes, they do have a better quality of life.

But then again, it's easier to share limited resources when you have a much lower population to share it amongst.

There is no systematic draft into the faceless miliary might.
ALL eldar soldiers are there by choice (they chose to walk the path of the warrior, or they accepted the choice of returning as a guardian - or even warlock. A warlock is a seer who has walked the path of the warrior prior to the seer path - whether immediately or several paths removed).

The poll 74% for Yes is a blowout in favor of the Eldar.

Given that we're all human.. it seems everyone would ditch life in the Imperium for the good life on a giant glass dome craftworld.

DorianGray wrote:
The poll 74% for Yes is a blowout in favor of the Eldar.

Given that we're all human.. it seems everyone would ditch life in the Imperium for the good life on a giant glass dome craftworld.

Keep your glass domes...I'm riding dinos!

On topic, God yes, life on a Craftworld is waaaaay superior in all aspects.

DorianGray wrote:


First of all, there is no poverty or need in craftworlds. They have incredible technology that makes work unnecessary. This sloth and excess was the original reason why they created Slaneesh. So essentially imagine it like modern-day NORWAY where no one "needs" to work but many do. So work is a choice. There is massive freedom and pursuit of happiness in that fact alone.

There is poverty here, and unless you fake a handicap to be moved from the unemployment statistic to benefits/unfit for work statistic, much like most Western societies (See the US labour force participation rate), you still have to work.

 JustALittleOrkish wrote:

DorianGray wrote:
So essentially imagine it like modern-day NORWAY where no one "needs" to work but many do. So work is a choice. There is massive freedom and pursuit of happiness in that fact alone.

Pardon my real world ignorance but how can Norway exist with nobody needing to work? How could any culture exist with all work purely voluntary?

OP is telling, at best, a truth with modifications.

Spetulhu wrote:

 JustALittleOrkish wrote:

They can't, but Norway is one of the few (only?) countries that wouldn't need to have any state debt. Their small population and large oil industry basically means the government has been borrowing money cheaply and reinvesting it for higher returns.

Us, the Saudis, Qatar (notice a pattern) etc. don't have debt due to government effectively seizing the oil rights in the early 70s, similar to what the Venezuelans did recently. However, our state companies function without corruption impairing the economy too much (like Russia's Gazprom or Brazil's Petrobras, but our state telecoms company is currently in a lot of trouble for corruption abroad). While we have a lot of debt, we also have savings that outstrip our low-interest rate debt. However, due to the oil price collapsing, 2015 was the first time we net spent our savings, and the transfer from our state saving account will be approx 1000£ per capita for 2016. Also, the yield on the state fund isn't that high, which has been in the news for a while, though it is difficult to track actual earnings due to currencies racing to the bottom.

Objectively, yes, life on a Craftworld would be better than the average person's life in the Imperium. For a human being, though, I think it would be a living hell. Eldar and humans aren't wired the same. Life on a Craftworld would take a level of dedication and concentration that few, if any, humans could ever actually achieve. Regardless, Orks have the best standard of living. They love what they do, and do what they love, 24/7. Unless you are a grot - oh how wretchid it must be to be a gretchin.

pm713 wrote:How is there no freedom of speech or personal freedom?

DorianGray wrote:Yeah how do the Eldar have no freedoms?

There's no democracy. There's no opportunity to disagree with the craftworld's leadership.

The Farseers are in charge. The End. If you say something they don't like, it's Path of the Exile time.

Which is the same as the Imperium. The difference being as an Eldar you can become a Seer, join a different Craftworld or become a Ranger. Whereas with the Imperium it's generally take it or get executed.