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It could also have been something that Roundtree started to push once he was made CEO and had the ability to shift certain aspects of AoS. There was no stopping the End Times and AoS when he took the reins but maybe this was something he started when he had actual control.

Just saying the actual printed materials, lead time, and amount of work that go into something like this means it likely wasn't a snap kick decision.

 Hulksmash wrote:
It could also have been something that Roundtree started to push once he was made CEO and had the ability to shift certain aspects of AoS. There was no stopping the End Times and AoS when he took the reins but maybe this was something he started when he had actual control.

Just saying the actual printed materials, lead time, and amount of work that go into something like this means it likely wasn't a snap kick decision.

True that. I would wager if it wasn't started working before release by the Roundree then it was started around november+-month(more likely sooner than later) and even then this would be damned fast project.

However by november sale numbers were fairly indicative. That's around the time the half year report that showed declining profits for core products DESPITE plastic horus heresy which sold like hot cakes had it's sales numbers settled. So there could be sales giving some extra incentive for Rountree to order extra quick book release.

Of course it IS possible Roundtree made this decision before AOS was even released which would make it less of extra quick release.

Not knowing any specifics about timelines, I think the idea with AoS was always to build onto the core 4 pages, as seen with the campaign books too.

My strong hunch is that the community backlash about lack of points system, and subsequent abysmal launch sales let the air out of the proverbial whoopee cushion and prompted a hastily assembled team to create some actual competitive rules for the game. Average industry lead time on writing, design, and production of the printed products seem to fit this time line.

What bothers me is that GW have an abhorrent record of being able to create a balanced, competitive game system...(see the mess that is 40k at the moment.) With the time frame that we are talking about here, does anyone really think they were able to adequately play test and dial in all of the point values for the staggering number of units in all of the warscrolls? And assuming they did, has their internal playtesting efforts created a decent amount of internal or external balance in 40K?

Privateer Press has been working on re-balancing their game and units behind the scenes for at least the last 3 years,...and they arguably have much fewer available units/factions than Warhammer.

I remain cautiously optimistic, and will try this out when it launches...but if I was a betting man, I'd certainly not place money on this being a anything more than a band-aid applied to a sucking chest wound.

Now, lets see some more leaks on this supposed 'Warhammer Quest-like' board game....

Personally, my concern with tabletop games is that they have a semblance of balance.

Warmachine is one that has (what I would consider) exceptional balance, but honestly I probably am ambivalent on anything from great to reasonable in terms of how fair a game is. I feel that earlier editions of 40k (ie 4th and 5th), even with their notable imbalances, were balanced *enough* that people felt they had the chance to win (unless they picked purposely imbalanced armies). Starting around 6th 40k, it became more and more clear that concerns over balancing the game were set aside in attempts to extract more money from customers.

Same with AOS, the problem is determining what constituents a relatively balanced game is something altogether more complicated. You may be able to get people to agree on a comp, but then comps differ from area to area, etc. And I frankly don't have time in my schedule to spend negotiating how to play a tabletop game- it's hard enough just getting the couple of hours as it is!

AOS appealed to me because of the simple, relatively straightforward rules, but the lack of any balancing mechanisms within the game itself really ultimately decide against getting into it. And my interest in 40k has diminished greatly, with the focus of the game moved so heavily towards massive units (Knights and flyers), and I don't want to play Epic 40k. Now, AOS might actually become my go-to GW game if things pan out well, which is crazy because I would have never anticipated that even two weeks ago!

Listening to The Beasts of Cartha, it makes mention of creatures called Crypt Flayers. They sound like a variant of ghouls/zombies.

Also makes mention of Ogors with large shields.. Don't think there's any like that at the moment, is there? As well as an Ogor 18ft tall...

Well that narrows it down.

I'm betting Ogors, the destruction book is coming up so that might be a good indicator.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Listening to The Beasts of Cartha, it makes mention of creatures called Crypt Flayers. They sound like a variant of ghouls/zombies.

Also makes mention of Ogors with large shields.. Don't think there's any like that at the moment, is there? As well as an Ogor 18ft tall...

Everything here sounds awesome so whatever it is I'll probably be happy.

coldgaming wrote:
Not knowing any specifics about timelines, I think the idea with AoS was always to build onto the core 4 pages, as seen with the campaign books too.

Then why did they spend almost a year pushing HipsterHammer and claiming points were unwanted and unneeded in the Glorious AoS Future?

There's no way GW come out of this looking competent, sorry. Either this was a panic move they were forced into by terrible sales(and it's not actually as far-fetched as some are proposing, you can get printing done in Eastern Europe with a fairly low turnaround time, it's only the big runs from China that take ages, and if you recall the design studio pretty much pulled 3rd Ed 40K out of their arses at the last minute because management changed their plans), or it was their plan all along and they've spent the months since AoS launched intentionally alienating potential customers by insisting all the manky points-loving competitive sorts were unwelcome in their new Casual Narrative Paradise.

 Yodhrin wrote:

coldgaming wrote:
Not knowing any specifics about timelines, I think the idea with AoS was always to build onto the core 4 pages, as seen with the campaign books too.

Then why did they spend almost a year pushing HipsterHammer and claiming points were unwanted and unneeded in the Glorious AoS Future?

There's no way GW come out of this looking competent, sorry. Either this was a panic move they were forced into by terrible sales(and it's not actually as far-fetched as some are proposing, you can get printing done in Eastern Europe with a fairly low turnaround time, it's only the big runs from China that take ages, and if you recall the design studio pretty much pulled 3rd Ed 40K out of their arses at the last minute because management changed their plans), or it was their plan all along and they've spent the months since AoS launched intentionally alienating potential customers by insisting all the manky points-loving competitive sorts were unwelcome in their new Casual Narrative Paradise.

What's your opinion of the theory that AoS was a product of King Kirby, and the resurrection of points being introduced by Rountree?

 angelofvengeance wrote:
Listening to The Beasts of Cartha, it makes mention of creatures called Crypt Flayers. They sound like a variant of ghouls/zombies.

Also makes mention of Ogors with large shields.. Don't think there's any like that at the moment, is there? As well as an Ogor 18ft tall...

or Ogor zombies you should listen fist of gork and mork.

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

coldgaming wrote:
Not knowing any specifics about timelines, I think the idea with AoS was always to build onto the core 4 pages, as seen with the campaign books too.

Then why did they spend almost a year pushing HipsterHammer and claiming points were unwanted and unneeded in the Glorious AoS Future?

There's no way GW come out of this looking competent, sorry. Either this was a panic move they were forced into by terrible sales(and it's not actually as far-fetched as some are proposing, you can get printing done in Eastern Europe with a fairly low turnaround time, it's only the big runs from China that take ages, and if you recall the design studio pretty much pulled 3rd Ed 40K out of their arses at the last minute because management changed their plans), or it was their plan all along and they've spent the months since AoS launched intentionally alienating potential customers by insisting all the manky points-loving competitive sorts were unwelcome in their new Casual Narrative Paradise.

What's your opinion of the theory that AoS was a product of King Kirby, and the resurrection of points being introduced by Rountree?

Nonsense, all of these things take time to produce.

I'd suggest it far more plausible that a points/comp system was left out to allow the community/marketplace define the best fit/solution and then jump on board. GW will be painfully aware of the critics they have historically received on this. Plus there are a fair number of articles from the likes of Rick Preistley, Alessio Calvetore and Jervis Johnson that have all expoused their frustration at creatin what they see as working system that then get 10 page comp-packs bolted on.

Why else would there be such championing of the SGT/podcast interactions?

 notprop wrote:


Nonsense, all of these things take time to produce.

I'd suggest it far more plausible that a points/comp system was left out to allow the community/marketplace define the best fit/solution and then jump on board. GW will be painfully aware of the critics they have historically received on this. Plus there are a fair number of articles from the likes of Rick Preistley, Alessio Calvetore and Jervis Johnson that have all expoused their frustration at creatin what they see as working system that then get 10 page comp-packs bolted on.

My guess is that points were left out because they thought it could just work in its original form. Their customers don't need that type of rules (all these collectors and painters who are willing to pay the increasingly luxurious prices that they focused on in their investor statements), and that there was no plan to co-opt a community made solution because there was supposedly no need for that.

Why else would there be such championing of the SGT/podcast interactions?

There are multiple rumours that AoS sales are below expectations and it could be that they are frantically adjusting and trying to improve the situation and latching on to one of the more popular community solution, hoping to get back some of the people who abandoned AoS with this initiative. I don't think it's about actually wanting to communicate with their customers or that the system is so great that they just had to adopt it but just them cynically hoping this could reel back some people. People are applauding them for this move (it really looks like they are trying) but I would rather wait and see if that will be a long term investment for them or if it will just be a short term thing that they drop whenever they feel they don't need it anymore.

That is the same company that more or less dropped an existing game and released a new, but somehow related, one with minimal advertisement and hoped to get better sales by some sort of brand loyalty magic. WHFB had some good stuff and some bad stuff. I think GW didn't know which was which and when they released AoS they again had a game with good and bad parts (without knowing which was which) but they were trying really hard to erase or minimize the connection to the old game for a tabula rasa effect, hoping that everybody would feel the need to buy all the new releases. But what they got was a blank slate in regard to customer loyalty and interest. Now they need to convince all these old (and disgruntled) customers who usually (but in declining numbers) grudgingly upgraded to a new WHFB version (which was still recognizable as the the same game) and bought some stuff to make their armies gaming legal to actually start buying and playing this new game.

Regarding Rountree. The most likely scenario was that he had a meeting to discuss strategy and actually listened to people in the studio and not just the sales and legal division.

Chikout wrote:
Regarding Rountree. The most likely scenario was that he had a meeting to discuss strategy and actually listened to people in the studio and not just the sales and legal division.

Bingo!

He's a sound reasonable manager that respects the combined input of his staff and makes sound decisions based on a balance of them all plus consumer feedback (not the otoise kind mind you).

Reasonably competent management. Imagine that.

 Fango wrote:


What bothers me is that GW have an abhorrent record of being able to create a balanced, competitive game system...(see the mess that is 40k at the moment.)

Uhm, what about Lord of the Rings? One of the best rule systems GW put out. With a small few tweaks I am surprised LotR/The Hobbit wasn't used or based for Age of Sigmar. Not complex, but lots of depth and strategy to be played.

Or Epic Armageddon which is still an amazing ruleset. GW can make good games and rules. It's been that that hasn't been the focus for so long we've forgotten that.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Or Epic Armageddon which is still an amazing ruleset. GW can make good games and rules. It's been that that hasn't been the focus for so long we've forgotten that.

Well that was largely influenced by fans so credit isn't fully to GW(or rather Jervis). He had the smart idea of outsourcing playtesting to players

GW just wrote on their Facebook page that the Megaboss was sculpted by everyone's favorite Ork sculptor, Brian Nelson. It was the first Orruk they made.

We all know the "clowny" and "funny" of his sculpts, but he's also responsible for very serious and "strong" Orks like this one

http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Errex/media/GMOrkNobFB.jpg.html

 Mymearan wrote:
GW just wrote on their Facebook page that the Megaboss was sculpted by everyone's favorite Ork sculptor, Brian Nelson. It was the first Orruk they made.

Hahahahahaaa!
There were at least two negative nellies who when the pics first came out were stating that the new Orruks were terrible, GW should only ever let Brian Nelson do Orcs as he "gets it".

From over on Faeit - http://natfka.blogspot.co.uk/2016/04/global-campaign-with-living-map.html


via anonymous sources on Faeit 212
There will be a globel campaign for AoS coming up in a few weeks/months time.
It will have it's own website.
A living map.
All results will lead into the next book.
Details are still being finished.
A new start up section is coming for AoS with kits starting at £5 up.
On the finance front.
AoS is actually doing as well if not better then 40k in some areas.
There has been a decline in shop sales but with summer coming GW hope this should pick up.
Also.
No more leaks!
GW are going are no longer going to be holding back info.
You will know as soon as it happens.

Brian Nelson is Gork. Or maybr Mork.

Now I want that Megaboss even more. But €€€. Sigh

PS: Outsourcing playtesting (snd even ruleswriting) is a POSITIVE in my book.

Edit: no leaks? Actuslly engaging custoners and getting them excited for your product? Allowing them to plan purchases?! Madness! Must be a Faeit rumor, sounds way too sensible.

Binabik15 wrote:

Edit: no leaks? Actuslly engaging custoners and getting them excited for your product? Allowing them to plan purchases?! Madness! Must be a Faeit rumor, sounds way too sensible.

That really sounds too good to be true. Where are the Silver Tower official leaks!!

Based on them releasing information about forthcoming book through an unofficial podcast, the bit about loosening the leak policy doesn't seem too far fetched

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

coldgaming wrote:
Not knowing any specifics about timelines, I think the idea with AoS was always to build onto the core 4 pages, as seen with the campaign books too.

Then why did they spend almost a year pushing HipsterHammer and claiming points were unwanted and unneeded in the Glorious AoS Future?

There's no way GW come out of this looking competent, sorry. Either this was a panic move they were forced into by terrible sales(and it's not actually as far-fetched as some are proposing, you can get printing done in Eastern Europe with a fairly low turnaround time, it's only the big runs from China that take ages, and if you recall the design studio pretty much pulled 3rd Ed 40K out of their arses at the last minute because management changed their plans), or it was their plan all along and they've spent the months since AoS launched intentionally alienating potential customers by insisting all the manky points-loving competitive sorts were unwelcome in their new Casual Narrative Paradise.

What's your opinion of the theory that AoS was a product of King Kirby, and the resurrection of points being introduced by Rountree?

It's possible, but I think there's a tendency to personify all GW's problems in Kirby and, by inverse implication, all their recent more positive rumblings as Rountree's doing, and I don't know that it's that simple. AoS pretty thoroughly embodies the kind of attitude on display in Jervis' forays into the public eye in recent years - was he following Kirby's line, or are the studio just genuine believers in that impractical "gentlemen's agreement" style of gaming? Is Rountree making the moves he's making because he genuinely thinks the company needs a new direction, or because he's reacting desperately to tanking revenue with a fairly scattergun approach? Realistically we can't tell until we're well past the transitional period(ie once we start seeing sprue dates on stuff that are from at least a year after Kirby left), and even then the real test of Rountree will be what he does if and when he turns things around - re-engaging with the community, more structure for AoS, event support etc etc are all great, but will they keep doing it if they return to growth? That will be when we know if Rountree has new ideas and wants to change the corporate culture, or if GW's current behaviour is just a ploy to bump up the next financial report.

I hope it's the former, but the years have taught me to be cynical.

I think that more than AoS, the way they address 40k in the next year or so will tell us (sort of) what the course for GW will be.

 Mymearan wrote:
GW just wrote on their Facebook page that the Megaboss was sculpted by everyone's favorite Ork sculptor, Brian Nelson. It was the first Orruk they made.

So that's why it is so awesome!

<- Big fan of his sculpts

The Gw aos Facebook page staight up said that there will not be any more bloodbound stuff this year so next week's release will not be the khorgorath.

Chikout wrote:
The Gw aos Facebook page staight up said that there will not be any more bloodbound stuff this year so next week's release will not be the khorgorath.

wow, that's interesting.
that leaves several models as exclusive to the starter set.
kind of surprising.