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So, I'm building Ravenguard. I keep edging towards a Talon Strike force and and 100% sure I want to play the Shadow Strike Kill Team.... but, unfortunately most my models are unassembled, and I cannot playtest.

But, I just can't reason that the Talon is worth it to bring my reserves in Turn 1, yet all the extra (re-rolls, on like... HUGE THINGS) seem invaluable, but the cost of the base formation to fit into a traditional 1850~ bracket just seems like too much of a deficit without driving the nail into the coffin... literally, I love Dreadnaughts! However, with a Battle-Demi as my core, I can play 1 unit of dreadnaughts, but I'm more interested in playing 2-3 so the wounds don't carry over..

halp... Considering the Shadow Strike Kill Team can pass/fail reserve rolls as they please, is the talon really worth it? Opinions?

If you are into dreadnought spam, raven guard is probably not the chapter for you to begin with.

I'm going through the same issue/ though process. I've started building my shadow strike kill team and am thinking of joining it to a CAD rather than the Talon strike force. Once you fill in the requirements there's no other points for much else.

Concerning the 1st turn DS potential. I'm not convinced I don't want to leave my vets out on their own especially if you go first. I think the better benefits are the scouts from reserve leading a DEV squad or the mission re-roll. But there again I think those were specifically made to help the talon strike force with the limitations and provide for the very fluffy-ness of the RG.

All that said I think I'm going to steer clear and use a cad with their chapter tactics with my SSKT.

 BoomWolf wrote:
If you are into dreadnought spam, raven guard is probably not the chapter for you to begin with.

can't. My Venerables are a super reliable all rounder. Double T/L Autocannons give me rerolls which prove handy in taking out AIR, or grounding Flying MCs for me to pummel! IF they don't bring air, that BS5 is at S7 is too damn nice.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

C4000 wrote:
I'm going through the same issue/ though process. I've started building my shadow strike kill team and am thinking of joining it to a CAD rather than the Talon strike force. Once you fill in the requirements there's no other points for much else.

Concerning the 1st turn DS potential. I'm not convinced I don't want to leave my vets out on their own especially if you go first. I think the better benefits are the scouts from reserve leading a DEV squad or the mission re-roll. But there again I think those were specifically made to help the talon strike force with the limitations and provide for the very fluffy-ness of the RG.

All that said I think I'm going to steer clear and use a cad with their chapter tactics with my SSKT.

yea, I agree... I can't seem to justify the Talon, but there are a couple benefits;
Pinion;
Taking droppods for tacticals; could double it up with an orbital skyhammer.
Scouts leading in a command squad.

Battle Demi;
Dreadnoughts!
Tactical Doctrines aren't bad.


I just see myself playing a CAD for some obsec tacticals, and to get my Dreads. Then probably a Shadow Strike Kill Team and an additional Strike Force Command. Blade Wing assault isn't bad, but it's pricey.... just load it up with 5 man Assault Squads with 2 flamers and the Evis. Take one sweep to knock out troops with the flamers, pull them off and drop them on tanks for the evis and melta.... or vice versa.

There's lots of fun to be had with the Talon. It's what I use all the time, the scouts leading squads on outflanking is just amazing. I tend to keep it simple and just have them bring tactical squads with them, but when you flank with four different units at once, it's very hard for your opponent to deal with. Couple that with vanguard vets that can assault out of deep strike and you gave a very deadly combo.

I Thoroughly love the Raven Guard and the Talon Strike Force. It hasn't been super effective in recent games but this is what I use:

Raven Guard Talon Strike Force

Pinion Battle Demi Company

- Captain (Warlord) – Armour of Shadows, Raven’s Fury, Swiftstrike and Murder, Melta bombs and Auspex
- 5 man Command Squad – x4 Grav guns in a drop pod with locator beacon
- 5 man Tactical Squad – Missile Launcher with Flakk Missiles, Sergeant
- 5 man Tactical Squad – Missile Launcher with Flakk Missiles, Veteran Sergeant with Power axe and Melta Bombs
- 5 man Tactical Squad – Meltagun, Sergeant with Combi-melta and Melta Bombs in a drop pod with locator beacon
- 10 Man Assault Squad – x2 Plasma Pistols, Veteran Sergeant with Thunder hammer and Melta Bombs
- 10 man Devastator Squad – x4 Missile Launchers, Veteran Sergeant with Melta Bombs
- 5 man Scout Squad – 4 sniper rifles, missile launcher and camo cloaks
- 3 man Scout Bike Squad – Veteran sergeant with Combi-grav, melta bombs, locator beacon

Shadowstrike Kill Team

- 5 man Scout Squad – Camo cloaks, Bolt Pistol/CCW, Sergeant with Melta-Bombs
- 5 man Scout Squad – Camo cloaks, Bolt Pistol/CCW, Sergeant with Melta-Bombs
- 5 Man Vanguard Squad – 2 Power Weapons, Sergeant with Relic Blade and Melta-Bombs
- 5 Man Vanguard Squad – 2 Dual Lightning Claws, 1 thunder Hammer, 1 storm shield

The basis it to keep the sniper scouts and devs in the back lines for ignoring cover shenanigans while the rest of the scouts infiltrate/scout for prime deep strike locations for the vanguards. Then when I have to face something monstrous I can use the 2 drop pod units to come in behind enemy lines and provide additional locations for vanguards if I need to hold them for turn 2.

However...

I've played the list a couple times now and the people default to a null/min deployment. So now I'm starting to think along the same lines as the OP or simply use my re-roll for first turn to make them go first and see what they do. That way I can either deploy my infiltrators or outflank my devastators and assault marines.

Thoughts?

I've had some trouble with the pinion, It's nice but a bit restrictive for getting +5% chance to go first.

Shadowstrike is glorious though. I've found a great (albeeit bit of a dick move) tactic to take allied FA drop pods for the scouts.

It delays your aplha strike to T2 but guarantees you will have scouts on the board without them getting shot off. You can also guarantee that the scouts and vets arrive the same turn, so it's handy.
1 10 man scout squad, with a FA drop pod is 145 points, to guarantee all your vets precision deepstrike.

harkequin wrote:
I've had some trouble with the pinion, It's nice but a bit restrictive for getting +5% chance to go first.

Bit better than +5% chance isn't it? Closer to +25% (+/- chance of getting seized)

Shadowstrike is glorious though. I've found a great (albeeit bit of a dick move) tactic to take allied FA drop pods for the scouts.

It delays your aplha strike to T2 but guarantees you will have scouts on the board without them getting shot off. You can also guarantee that the scouts and vets arrive the same turn, so it's handy.
1 10 man scout squad, with a FA drop pod is 145 points, to guarantee all your vets precision deepstrike.

Not sure why its a dick move -- in comparison to things that people can do and the potential counters its pretty mild. Also no reason you'd have to delay the alpha strike. The scouts special rule does not require them to be on the table the turn it is used like teleport homers and locator beacons. Its why putting them in a drop pod is amazing if you can swing the extra CAD + Talon Strike force. That is the list I am working on currently, hoping to playtest it soon.

Yeah the talon strike force gives you a lot more than just a chance of going first.

I mentioned the Delayed alpha strike as, bringing in a CAD for the drop pods means that its much harder to fit in the talon effectively, delaying your vets till turn 2.

From what I remember Bruteforcing the stats (no easy way to calculate it) a while ago, with a re-roll it works out at about 55% chance to go first.

I assumed it would be closer to 75% but that's not what came up.

Handy part of the Scouts in a drop-pod is one pod filled with 10 scouts fulfills the 2 required squads for precision deepstrike if you combat squad them.