Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all,

I'm still seeking my first turn around the table with x-wing so I was thinking of bringing this 2-ship list for friendly games Sunday/story mini-tournament Monday.

Whisper (44)
Gunner, VI, ACD, FCS

Rexler Brath (54)
HLC, Prorockets, PTL EU

Total 98

I was kind of thinking that Rexler with PTL and EU would make him a pretty nimble flyer to either stay at range or close as needed (with Prorockets to throw 5 dice at R1) while having a focus token to flip damage cards.

Then there's the "buzzsaw" Whisper, which will be more of a challenge to fly/fight (which was one reason behind a two-ship list)...

I recognize that this list won't be winning anything terribly competitive, but I want to get some practice/feel for flying the Defender and Whisper without worrying too much about how to cram a third ship into the list while also experimenting with some options/cards...

Or is this just the worst idea ever? Should I be thinking about 2 other pilots/ships to back up Rexler? Two Tempest pilots with ATC/Accuracy Corrector come to mind

The Defender isn't blessed with the most greens, if you're going to use PTL then engine MkII is a worthwhile investment.

Equally, 3 pts on Prockets will gain you one extra dice over R1 Primary/HLC on one occasion. That's not really worth the return. I don't have an alternate off the top of my head, but look at something else if I were you.

But, honestly, it's a lot of expensive upgrades on just two small base ships, you're going to have to fly like a hero to make it work.

As far as Rexler goes, I was thinking that PTL doesn't make sense with only focus, barrel roll and TL for actions. And I definitely see the point about prockets... what about swapping PTL for lone wolf and the rockets for cluster missiles? The engine upgrade is definitely optional, but it seemed like fun.

Maybe I should look at it the other way around - what do you think about Rexler w/ PTL, EU & auto blasters (49)

I was thinking about pairing with Vader with x1, ATC, EU, VI (35) and maybe a black squadron pilot w/ juke (16) as a blocker/extra pair of attack dice (or an Academy pilot) with points for prockets or cluster/concussion missiles for one of the others?

I don't have the core II set or the Tie fighter or TIE/FO expansions, so I'm limited to the ships & dials of the core set for TIES but I can proxy upgrade cards (and possibly pilots from the TIE /Assault carrier expansions, but that's less certain ).

Cheers

Apostasus wrote:
Maybe I should look at it the other way around - what do you think about Rexler w/ PTL, EU & auto blasters (49)

Autoblaster kind of sucks. Push the Limit on a defender without Mk. II makes it the single most predictable ship in the game because the only way to clear that stress is to go straight. Also, that Rexler build is 49 points... on a ship with no defensive upgrades and only six total hit points.

I was thinking about pairing with Vader with x1, ATC, EU, VI (35) and maybe a black squadron pilot w/ juke (16) as a blocker/extra pair of attack dice (or an Academy pilot) with points for prockets or cluster/concussion missiles for one of the others?

If you put any Elite upgrade on a Black Squadron TIE fighter, it should be Crack Shot.

Sorry, real facepalm moment there. For some reason I thought the autoblaster would be rolling 4 dice at range 1. Yes it sucks and that plan is going to die.

Am I just wrong in thinking that PLT probably isn't worth the points for a Defender, then? Not enough actions on the card without the EU and hard to shed stress with it? Though I suppose it would let Rexler focus and TL/Roll to have a token for his ability. Rex w/ PTL and Mk2 is 41 points, 39 with the x7 title) ... or there's Vessery with HLC, elusive and mk2 for 45...

Apostasus wrote:
Sorry, real facepalm moment there. For some reason I thought the autoblaster would be rolling 4 dice at range 1. Yes it sucks and that plan is going to die.

Am I just wrong in thinking that PTL probably isn't worth the points for a Defender, then? Not enough actions on the card without the EU and hard to shed stress with it? Though I suppose it would let Rexler focus and TL/Roll to have a token for his ability. Rex w/ PTL and Mk2 is 41 points, 39 with the x7 title) ... or there's Vessery with HLC, elusive and mk2 for 45...

For Vessery, just skip elusiveness and the MKII to shed stress and get a stealth device for the same points and roughly the same defensive value. Vessery has TLs all the time anyway so he doesn't mind spending his focus on Defense if he has to. I still think Vessery with Tractor Beam, TIE/d and maybe VI is the way to go. Definitely a nasty wingman for Rexler Brath or Darth Vader.

As for Rexler, I think the build I would use with him is keep him cheap and scary. TIE x/7, Juke, and maybe Stealth Device. for 37/40 points.

A generic EPT Defender (which I think we get with Veterans? Glaive Squadron Pilot?) with PTL, TIE x/7 and MKII might be worth a look. Any ship with 3 actions is scary. Especially one with such a solid stat line and native barrel roll/TL and one of those actions being a free evade. If you can get one of those for 33 points, it might be a good enough third ship for a 2 Ace build

Another option/ pair I was thinking about remembering a comment someone made about ion cannons being most useful when the target is also stressed:

Colonel Vessery (47)
TIE Defender (35), Cluster Missiles (4), Ion Cannon (3), Opportunist (4), TIE/D (0), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Kath Scarlet (50)
Firespray-31 (38), Concussion Missiles (4), Ion Cannon (3), Weapons Engineer (3), Slave-1 (0), Guidance Chips (0), Extra Munitions (2) Adaptability (0)

The idea was to use the weapon engineer with Kath to lock up multiple targets so Vessery can have some target flexibility, Concussion missiles + guidance chips is going to be 4 dice with at least one hit and a critical, (stressing anyone who cancels a critical) , Adaptability so kath can shoot after Vessery if shooting missiles (spending TLs)...possibly swapping out for ion pulse missiles and/or one or both cannon for flachettes.

Apostasus wrote:
Another option/ pair I was thinking about remembering a comment someone made about ion cannons being most useful when the target is also stressed:

Colonel Vessery (47)
TIE Defender (35), Cluster Missiles (4), Ion Cannon (3), Opportunist (4), TIE/D (0), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Kath Scarlet (50)
Firespray-31 (38), Concussion Missiles (4), Ion Cannon (3), Weapons Engineer (3), Slave-1 (0), Guidance Chips (0), Extra Munitions (2) Adaptability (0)

The idea was to use the weapon engineer with Kath to lock up multiple targets so Vessery can have some target flexibility, Concussion missiles + guidance chips is going to be 4 dice with at least one hit and a critical, (stressing anyone who cancels a critical) , Adaptability so kath can shoot after Vessery if shooting missiles (spending TLs)...possibly swapping out for ion pulse missiles and/or one or both cannon for flachettes.

Why not tactician on Kath for 1 point less, and Mangler Cannon for 1 point more? then you double stress ships that cancel your crit result when they're in R2 on your front arc. Also, why Opportunist? Sure it's an extra die on your primary on controlled targets but it's 4 points and takes your EPT slot and doesn't trigger all the time. I'd rather have VI and "Adapt" Kath's PS up to 8 rather than down to 6. Cluster Missiles are not much of an improvement when you're getting 2 attacks anyway at R1-3 instead of R1-2. Concussion Missiles and Guidance Chips and Extra Munitions might be okay on Kath since it's 4 dice at R3, that takes away their extra agility dice and the natural dice roll + Concussion modify + Guidance chip Crit might be enough to push through defense dice, but it wastes Kath's Pilot ability for two turns (because they *probably* won't roll that many evade) and I think I'd rather just have the 3 dice Mangler Cannon with a focus. Might want to look into calculation or marksmanship so it works in the rear arc too. That's up to you though.

I hate to say this, but 2 ship builds are really not amazing. They can be good, but it means a lot of games will be uphill battles and the ships in question have to bring a lot of muscle and still be defensively sound to be able to compete with 3 or more ships.

If I were going to make a list using these two pilots it would probably be

Kath Scarlet (41)
Firespray-31 (38), Calculation (1), Tactician (2)

Colonel Vessery (42)
TIE Defender (35), Ion Cannon (3), Veteran Instincts (1), TIE/D (0), Stealth Device (3)

and either Mauler Mithel or Epsilon Ace.

Epsilon gives you another target lock that you can stick on someone and leave it while he takes focus, barrel roll or evade actions, and the almighty Pilot Skill 12. Mauler Mithel just gives you an aggressive TIE fighter with a 4 dice gun at R1.

You could also lose the Stealth Device and take a generic TIE Advanced Prototype with Title and Autothrusters

or lose Veteran Instincts and Stealth Device and take a generic TIE Advanced with your choice of Systems Upgrade (probably Sensor Jammer or Accuracy Corrector)

You still have the functional core of the list, and you get another ship that can be as effective as you want to spend points on, and consequently cut points from your other ships.

Maybe I shouldn't be focused on this, but I'm just not seeing a way to get the ion-stress strength into a 3-ship list

What about this:

Colonel Vessery (41)
TIE Defender (35), Ion Cannon (3), TIE/D (0), Stealth Device (3)

Kath Scarlet (56)
Firespray-31 (38), Ion Pulse Missiles (3), “Mangler” Cannon (4), Conner Net (4), Marksmanship (3), Tactician (2), Slave-1 (0), Extra Munitions (2)

97 points-
Possibly dropping Marksmanship for an engine upgrade on Kath/bombardier crew.(Kath is sort of loaded for bear because I was thinking that if I'm going to spend the 2 points for extra Munitions, I might as well get extra shots/points savings by getting extras of the expensive munitions.

Or going with long range scanners and back to the weapon engineer (possibly dropping the ion missiles or moving them to Vessery to doscourage spending Kath's TLs)

I also have to say that I'm not sold on stealth device for Vessery- he's not an arc dodger so I don't see it as being as useful for him as an interceptor...

Apostasus wrote:
Maybe I shouldn't be focused on this, but I'm just not seeing a way to get the ion-stress strength into a 3-ship list

What about this:

Colonel Vessery (41)
TIE Defender (35), Ion Cannon (3), TIE/D (0), Stealth Device (3)

Kath Scarlet (56)
Firespray-31 (38), Ion Pulse Missiles (3), “Mangler” Cannon (4), Conner Net (4), Marksmanship (3), Tactician (2), Slave-1 (0), Extra Munitions (2)

97 points-
Possibly dropping Marksmanship for an engine upgrade on Kath/bombardier crew.(Kath is sort of loaded for bear because I was thinking that if I'm going to spend the 2 points for extra Munitions, I might as well get extra shots/points savings by getting extras of the expensive munitions.

Or going with long range scanners and back to the weapon engineer (possibly dropping the ion missiles or moving them to Vessery to doscourage spending Kath's TLs)

I also have to say that I'm not sold on stealth device for Vessery- he's not an arc dodger so I don't see it as being as useful for him as an interceptor...

Are you perhaps thinking of Autothrusters? Stealth Device has no trigger wording about 'arc'. It's always on. granting you 4 agility. Which is always better than 3 agility. especially when you have another way to modify your attack dice, leaving you with an extra focus to use on defense.

Take a TIE shuttle with long range and weapons engineer if you really care about having target locks on everything that much. It's not a waste of a Firespray's crew slot and only costs you like 19 points.

By the way, I was the one that said ion+stress is good control. But I meant that for one ship in particular, the YV-666 and Moralo Eval in particular. She has a wide primary arc for an Ion Cannon, and she brings Tactician, Gunner and Bossk. The best case scenario against Gunner, is that you let one damage through and don't trigger the extra attack which may cause even more damage. With the Ion Cannon, if they let 1 damage through, they still get a stress and an Ion token, completely disabling them for the next round and basically dooming them. If they don't, however, they take a second stress, disabling their actions completely, even if they take a green maneuver, and then Bossk and Gunner trigger, giving you a fully modified Primary Weapon attack against the defender.

Thanks bobcat, I appreciate your help. About the stealth, I was thinking that Vessery will probably get shot at a lot, so that the device would be more likely to be broken.

Just wondering if you prefer this kind of build for a kath stress/ion build:
Kath Scarlet (54)
Firespray-31 (38), Ion Pulse Missiles (3), Ion Cannon (3), Ion Bombs (2), Marksmanship (3), Gunner (5) Guidance chips (0)
[Possibly also with Slave 1 and flachette missiles]

With the Imperial version of Kath Scarlett, Marksmanship/Gunner isn't a bad plan - potentially delivering two stress per turn without stressing you.

The problem with pairing it with ion weapons is that Kat's ability only triggers when you miss - because it's the act of dodging the critical which stresses you. Ion cannons, by comparison, only trigger on a hit. The more either/or upgrades you put on (and they're not cheap options) the less you efficient the end ship.

In addition, you can't be using the missiles and the cannon simultaneously, or the missiles and marksmanship simultaneously (since both need an action) or the flechette torpedoes and missiles simultaneously.

Ion bombs are nice, but at PS7 (I think?) it's not quite high enough to catch squirrely T-70 or interceptor ace in the blast. It's nice and cheap, though.

I'd simplify. Ion Pulse Missiles are nice. Slave 1 adds Extra Munitions, so you get two shots cheap. Guidance Chips are free, so you get the Critical you want whenever you fire missiles. Gunner is a generically good upgrade for anyone who can take it, and ion bombs are cheap. Veteran Instincts makes you PS9

Now, you target lock someone (easy at PS9) and fire an ion missile. If they get hit, they're double-ionised. If they dodge, they take a stress (since there must be a critical in there) and you get a follow-up primary weapon shot at someone who now probably no longer has any evade tokens. Plus you can do this twice.

Apostasus wrote:

Just wondering if you prefer this kind of build for a kath stress/ion build:
Kath Scarlet (54)
Firespray-31 (38), Ion Pulse Missiles (3), Ion Cannon (3), Ion Bombs (2), Marksmanship (3), Gunner (5) Guidance chips (0)
[Possibly also with Slave 1 and flachette missiles]

Yikes.
I don't think an Ion/Stress build means that you have to have "all the ionz!". I think you'd be fine with just the cannon, and save yourself 5 points dumping the missiles and bomb.
Also, Marksmanship is terrible. I see what you're trying to do here by pairing it with Imperial Kath, but there's far better ways to use your EPT slot. Maybe Calculation? 2 points less, and gets you the crit you want without committing your action to the EPT.

Apostasus wrote:
Also, Marksmanship is terrible. I see what you're trying to do here by pairing it with Imperial Kath, but there's far better ways to use your EPT slot. Maybe Calculation? 2 points less, and gets you the crit you want without committing your action to the EPT.

Better to free up a point somewhere else and give Kath a Mangler Cannon.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

Apostasus wrote:
Also, Marksmanship is terrible. I see what you're trying to do here by pairing it with Imperial Kath, but there's far better ways to use your EPT slot. Maybe Calculation? 2 points less, and gets you the crit you want without committing your action to the EPT.

Better to free up a point somewhere else and give Kath a Mangler Cannon.

Agree completely, I was trying to keep the OP's stress/ion build in place.