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In new warzon fenris there are some demon formations without any discription or special rules like daemon lords formation and daemon flocks.

Can I use these formations in stand alone, not within full incursion formation?

If then where the RAW written?

Those aren't formations. Those are just Command and Axuillery choices for the Incursion detachment.

If they were a formation they'd have their own dataslate.

Where can I find mentions those choices without dataslate are not formations? I can't find any mentions in rulebook..

 buo-ong wrote:
Where can I find mentions those choices without dataslate are not formations? I can't find any mentions in rulebook..

Where does it say that they are formations?

RAW: if it doesn't say that it is a formation then it isnt a formation. This is not written down, but a general rule in 40k. If it doesnt say that it has rule x then it doesn't have rule x.
Things are only a formation if they are named as such of have a formation symbol. ( all new formations have a formation symbol )
A collection of models with a name that you can take in a detachment but has no page dedicated to them with a formation symbol on them is not a formation. It is just a random collection of models that can be used in a specific detachment.


I would love it if you convinced me otherwise. This would make the Ghazz supplement the best book ever for orks. Making all good ork units separate formations.
Just look at these last 3 boxes. Orks players would kill for these to be formations.

It says right in the description they are formations. These new detachments are made up of several formations. I don't know if you'd be able to take them alone in a Battleforged army, but the word "Formation" is clearly above the units it is composed of.

 Vlad_The_Obliterator wrote:
It says right in the description they are formations. These new detachments are made up of several formations. I don't know if you'd be able to take them alone in a Battleforged army, but the word "Formation" is clearly above the units it is composed of.

No. The new 'super detachments' such as the Necron Decurion, the Space Marine Gladius Strike Force, etc. are made up of either Formations or normal Units.

 Vlad_The_Obliterator wrote:
It says right in the description they are formations. These new detachments are made up of several formations. I don't know if you'd be able to take them alone in a Battleforged army, but the word "Formation" is clearly above the units it is composed of.

I don't have that book, but my Necron codex states: "Unlike the Detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a Force Organisation Chart whose slots are a combination of specific Formations and Army List Entries instead of Battlefield Roles." for the Decurion. The Gladius Strike Force states the same in Codex Marines.

To be a formation, there must be a specific formation page, of which it must have the formation symbol. The Daemon lord auxiliary choice is not a formation, it is an army list entry choice.

The soul grinder formation, which has its own rules and entry in the book, with the noted formation symbol, is a formation.

Most jerks on this forum agree that a real dataslate page is required to field a formation outside of a detachment of formations.

But it's not a detachment of formations; it's a detachment of formations and unit entries. Nothing indicates that the Daemon Lord choice is a Formation, therefore it is not one.

Misread op.

It's not that complicated. A Formation has the Formation symbol, and all Formations can be taken outside the traditional detachment.

The new super-detachment-detachments are made up of core/command/auxiliary choices. In every codex that has these the "Core" choices are Formations as indicated from the dataslate that outlines its individual rules.

The Auxiliary and Command choices, however, are a mix of individual unit entries and Formations. In a Daemonic Incursion army, a Daemon Lord is chosen from a list of unit entries, none of which are Formations. The Infernal Tetrad is also a Command choice, but it IS a Formation because it has its own dataslate with the Formation symbol.

Other Auxiliary choices in the Incursion that are NOT Formations include the Daemon Flock and Hunter of Khorne. I have no idea why GW needed to name these choices as they are just a unit of Furies or Karanak respectively. I think the "renaming" is what give people the idea that you may take them as separate formations when they are not.

This same issue came about when the Eldar codex dropped and the "Wraith-Construct" Auxiliary was a choice of WK, WL or Hemlock. Everyone lost their minds because they thought you could now have a Battle-Forged list with all Wraithknights. I think we can all breathe a sign of relief that this is not the case ( and I play Eldar).

--

 Galef wrote:
This same issue came about when the Eldar codex dropped and the "Wraith-Construct" Auxiliary was a choice of WK, WL or Hemlock. Everyone lost their minds because they thought you could now have a Battle-Forged list with all Wraithknights. I think we can all breathe a sign of relief that this is not the case ( and I play Eldar).

The same came up with the early views of the Decurion when we had zero references to it and precedence to work from. Even the White Dwarf article did not define what was a Formation and what was not.

Anyone want to face an army of nothing but Tesseract Vaults, C'tan, Deathmarks, and Flayed Ones, all Battle-Forged?

It wasn't until we had codex in hand and could identify that the Star God, Deathmarks, and Flayed Ones Choices did not have a Formation datasheet that we could confirm this.