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crazy idea for invisible as a way of toning it back not to mention other magic items:

eldar codex:

guide: amend to warp charge 2

fortune now only targets a model as opposed to a unit and a unit cannot have more then 1 fortune blessed unit inside it

in an effort to curb the eldars ability to stack guide on top of other magics

40k core rulebook:

amend blessings too:

blessings cannot be casted on units (or models) with the gargantuan monstrous creature/super heavy classification unless they have the psychic pilot special rule or if they have the faction: codex: orks

to cut down on invisible wraithknights mainly as well as perfect timing on imperial knights or allied guardsmen tanks

divination:

prescience and foreboding: these two powers are switching spaces, with foreboding now being the primaris,

divination: amend to "targets a single friendly unit within 8" "

perfect timing: this power is now warp charge 2

this has become such a default mechanism for most librarians or other magic users that it makes picking other powers over them fairly meaningless. this will also tone down some of the shooting nonsense


malefic:

cursed earth and summoning:

these two have switched places making cursed earth your new primaris

sacrifice: amend to: "if the power is successfully manifested one friendly model within 6" of the psyker is removed from play with no kind of save allowed (but does not count towards kill points but not tactical objectives, or towards blood tithe points as outlined in codex: khorne daemonkin, or towards tactical objectives)

posession: amend to: warp charge 3*

*= if this is unsuccessfully manifested (regardless of how or why) the psyker cannot try again for the duration of one full game turn

summoning amend to: "one of the following units (your choice): 10 bloodletters of khorne, 5 pink horrors of tzeentch, 5 plaguebearers of nurgle, or 5 daemonettes of slaneesh..."

these are mainly to cut down on daemon factories and to make choosing another field of magic for a chaos daemon army more tempting


telepathy:

invisibility:

remove the following: " and in close combat will only hit models in it on a To Hit Roll of a 6"

invisible needs to be curbed and this encourages less use of it because getting locked in close combat means your basically falling back on anything else you may have, it also gives armies with poor shooting a chance to actually kill invisible units via another method

Why do Orks still get invisible superheavies? I get it's to give them some tactical advantage, but I can see any actual plausible reason for it.

Yeah, Orks have no access to Invisibility or Battle Brother Aliies who have access to invisibility. I agree it's a strange distinction and it isn't necessary considering a Stompa cannot to my knowledge get invisibility ever.

Honestly I think invisibility is fine as it is. It doesn't mean that you can't kill the invisible superheavy, just means that you have to wait until you kill the psyker who is casting the spell before you go after the superheavy. It is a tactical way to prevent your expensive superheavies from being glanced to death before they can do anything. Same for cc, I have used invis on my chaos knight to prevent a wraithknight from insta-killing my knight.

How come nobody ever seems to want to make the terrible powers better? It's always the nerfbat.

Shortsighted.

 raverrn wrote:
How come nobody ever seems to want to make the terrible powers better? It's always the nerfbat.

Shortsighted.

The game isn't better if everything is broken

I'm a big fan of the Harlequins Phatasmancy "Reverse Invisibility"
Targets a single unit and makes them shoot snapshots and roll 6 to hit in CC.

First of all orks are left out for a few reasons:

1) orks have a hard enough time as is because their codex and supplements are bad, kicking them down the stairs further isn't doing them any favours, weirdboyz and temperamental as grox grease.

2) there orks if they believe a stompa is invulnerable to damage its invulnerable to damage. Such is the power of their combined psychic might.

3) Also there isn't a way to physically grant a stompa invisible anyway so I'm not sure what your bent out of shape over as far as I'm aware they can't benefit from Allied blessing or malediction spells at all, and their magic tables are the gork and mork powers and pyromancy if I'm not mistaken.

And furthermore mister "why not buff the bad ones" if we buff them were only breaking the game more. You think there's an imbalance because things aren't on the level of prescience and invisble, and perfect timing. But to buff them would only make magic more broken and by proxy shooting.

And invis nerf is mainly to try and encourage more cc from armies which is at an all time low thanks to games workshops total tilting of the game into shooting only. It's also giving them purpose, it also provides the user with more careful use of invisble as opposed to bring power dice in buckets, spam the feth out of invisble and upkeep the feth out of it. I debated making it a thing you couldn't recast without cool down of a turn instead meaning units would be out of invisble intermittently but it would just mean even less emphasis in magical diversity amongst magic heavy armies like eldar or grey Knights.

And to the person going on about invisible being this system where you kill one guy and that solves your problems, shame the eldar and grey knight and codex marines and chaos marines/daemons all have mountains of potential power dice that they exploit for all their worth. So no you don't kill the caster your going to kill over half their army to stop the other half from being invisible and there's just no answer to it. By the time you've dealt with their magic your army is all but spent and you don't have the gas to stop the rest from just steam rolling them.

This is a good start. I wish GW made Errata's like these regularly.

Prescience is fine as a primaris honestly. WC2 is fairly hefty cost to casts and a decently big risk to the caster to perils. Gaining reroll to hit isn't really all that bad when lots of armies have means to boost ballistic skill or gain rerolls through mechanics like chapter tactics.

Cursed Earth as primaris would be bad for every faction that isn't daemons that wants to malefic because the power basically does nothing for them. Make it Dark Flame or Infernal Gaze instead. Its the same issue with Banishment being the primaris of sanctic where it basically never comes into play in most games.

The ITC rule where invisibility makes everything count as BS/WS1 for determining to hit works decently enough. Letting blasts and templates actually work helps a lot and it means your hitting on 5s in close combat instead of 6s (why you can't call down artillery or burn an area with a flame thrower because something is very difficult to see makes zero sense). Ranged armies need a way to deal with invisible units so that way you don't have an invisible superfriends bike/wolf star ride around murdering all the poor guardsmen (instead of just most).

Why Orks can use blessings on GMCs and SHV? Orks don't even have any blessings that they can cast on other units and it seems silly to add a special exception in for them unless its meant to be a joke. If so then please include Tau so they can use their psykers to buff their Stormsurges

 ionusx wrote:


And invis nerf is mainly to try and encourage more cc from armies which is at an all time low thanks to games workshops total tilting of the game into shooting only. It's also giving them purpose, it also provides the user with more careful use of invisble as opposed to bring power dice in buckets, spam the feth out of invisble and upkeep the feth out of it. I debated making it a thing you couldn't recast without cool down of a turn instead meaning units would be out of invisble intermittently but it would just mean even less emphasis in magical diversity amongst magic heavy armies like eldar or grey Knights.

And to the person going on about invisible being this system where you kill one guy and that solves your problems, shame the eldar and grey knight and codex marines and chaos marines/daemons all have mountains of potential power dice that they exploit for all their worth. So no you don't kill the caster your going to kill over half their army to stop the other half from being invisible and there's just no answer to it. By the time you've dealt with their magic your army is all but spent and you don't have the gas to stop the rest from just steam rolling them.

I don't know how you can claim that a nerf to invis is good for cc armies, as I have said invis is the only way you can prevent your cc units from being destroyed before they get into range. Without invis on my deep striking daemons they would be ripped apart by the enemies shooting attacks before they could even have chance to charge.
And yes sometimes into isn't as simple as killing one psyker sometimes, but most of the time the enemy won't have more than 1 or 2 psykers that have rolled invis. Also it isn't supposed to be easy to destroy armies, that is why you have to be tactical.

Im trying to figure out how you cast perfect timing on a IK. Does it not still target the caster and his unit?

 Crazyterran wrote:
Im trying to figure out how you cast perfect timing on a IK. Does it not still target the caster and his unit?

You are right, you can't cast it on an IK.

As a completely unbiased eldar player (sarcasm), I'm afraid I don't care for these, ionusX.

* Guide is a good power, but is it really so good that you should have to throw 4 warp charges at it to reliably cast it?

* Your changes to Fortune make the power worthless *except* when you're doing especially cheesy things with it. It costs 4 warp dice to reliably cast. Most eldar saves are about 3+ or 4+ with a single wound. I'd probably never spend the dice on this power with your changes. That is, of course, unless I had an archon with a 2+ invul or a phoenix lord with a 2+ armor or if I'd already used Conceal on a unit to give it a 2+ cover save. Under your changes, you either make this power something people will never cast and be frustrated that they rolled at all, *or* you encourage them to only ever use it to get 2+ rerollables because otherwise those 4 warp charges wont' be worth the investment, *or* between Executioner, Will of Asuryan, and the newly toned-down Fortune, you simply decide to only ever roll on telepathy and fish for Invisibility/Shrouded.

* I can probably get behind not being able to bless colossals/superheavies. Those are forces that don't need to be multiplied

*Foreboding is pretty bad. It's entirely reactive, so opponents who really care about it will just work around the affected unit. Making this the primaris means people who roll one of the several other meh powers on divination are stuck with the choice of a meh power or an also meh Foreboding rather than having the solid option of prescience to draw on if t hey dislike their roll.

*Like guide, Prescience is good, but it also takes 4 warp charges to pull off reliably and has a limited range. It's one of the few (only?) WC2 primaris. I think it's fine as the primaris, and I feel like there are enough stinkers/situationally bad powers in divination that making this a non-primaris power risks causing people to never take divination at all. Perfect timing is good, but only if you pair it with a unit that hits hard and ignores your opponent's armor save. The rending one is good, but only if you pair it with a unit with enough shots to make it count. For perspective, a unit of 10 marines rapid-firing will do something like 2 rends, which may not really matter if you're facing daemons, dark eldar, or other factions without a lot of strong armor saves. The rest (aside from Prescience) are just really meh.

*Perfect Timing: See above. It's situationally good, but only if you have a squad to pair it with. Considering you only have a 1 in 6 chance of getting it per power you take from divination, and considering how unimpressive or situational many of the other divination powers can be, I'm fine with this one remaining unchanged.

* Mostly fine with your daemonology suggestions. The only thing that has me uncertain is making Cursed Earth the primaris. I *feels* like it should be more of a primaris than Summoning, but Summoning takes 6 dice to pull off reliably. So not only is it a big investment, it's easy to fail to cast it, and you're relatively likely to perils trying. Plus, daemonology is the "let's summon stuff" discipline. Potentially not ending up with a power to summon things with would stink.

Invisbillity: This power frustrates me to no end, and it certainly needs fixing. That said, I think the ITC version might be the better way to go as it help melee armies as well as shooty armies. Plus, making blasts and templates a valid counter to it just feels right.

P.S. While I"ll admit our psykers are quite good (as per their fluff), I'm surprised you seem to be having so much trouble with farseers. Is it only seer councils giving you trouble? Or farseers in general? They're certainly not a bad option, but I kind of get the impression that you've written this post in response to a very specific situation you've run into.

 raverrn wrote:
How come nobody ever seems to want to make the terrible powers better? It's always the nerfbat.

Shortsighted.

Then the game would be even more psychic centric than it is right now...

Cursed earth shouldn't be a primaris, too powerful. Summoning is fine where it is.

Prescience is fine, it's not breaking any rules.

The ork rule is stupid, just don't let them get buffed. I don't think perfect timing needs a nerf.

I think Draigo should have Sanc removed, fuels some not so fun lists.

Clearly the eldar prescience should be wc2 also. Makes no real sense even having the same effect.

I'd like to see invisibility bumped down to hitting on 5's both in combat and on shooting attacks. The markerlight ITC thing is stupid, why do they get to ignore my gameplan entirely?

With that said telepathy as a whole is one of the worst trees, dominates meh and the only other redeeming power is shriek but it's so random.

I'd like more variety.

In general I'd like each tree to have a powerful blessing that you can build around, they are generally what make a tree competitive.

Biomancy I feel is the best designed tree currently. Nobodies complaining about endurance but it remains very powerful. The other powers are also very appealing if not situational. Smite kills a terminator on average and is solid.