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Hi guys im wanting a change of pace to my normal KDK so im going to try out this 1000points CSM (Thousand Son's) list and ill like ur feed back.

Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) (Combined Arms Detachment) (998pts)
HQ (310pts)
Dark Apostle (135pts)
Mark of Tzeentch, Plasma Pistol, Power Maul, Sigil of Corruption, Veterans of the Long War
Champion of Chaos, Demagogue, Independent Character, Mark of Tzeentch, Veterans of the Long War, Zealot

Sorcerer (175pts)
2x Additional Mastery Level, Bolt Pistol, Force Stave, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Mark of Tzeentch,
Melta bombs, Power Armour, Sigil of corruption, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War, Warlord
Champion of Chaos, Independent Character, Mark of Tzeentch, Psyker, Veterans of the Long War

Troops (404pts)
Thousand Sons (202pts)
Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War
Aspiring Sorcerer
Aura of Dark Glory, Bolt Pistol, Force Sword
Champion of Chaos, Psyker
Chaos Rhino
Combi-bolter, Havoc Launcher, Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Warpflame gargoyles
Repair, Transport Capacity: Rhino
4x Thousand Son, 4x Aura of Dark Glory, 4x Boltgun

Thousand Sons (202pts)
Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War
Aspiring Sorcerer
Aura of Dark Glory, Bolt Pistol, Force Sword
Champion of Chaos, Psyker
Chaos Rhino
Combi-bolter, Havoc Launcher, Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Warpflame gargoyles
Repair, Transport Capacity: Rhino
4x Thousand Son, 4x Aura of Dark Glory, 4x Boltgun

Fast Attack (99pts)
Chaos Bikers (99pts)
Mark of Tzeentch, 2x Meltagun
2x Chaos Biker, 2x Combi-bolter on Bike
Chaos Biker Champion, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Combi-bolter on Bike, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

Heavy Support (185pts)
Havocs (185pts)
Mark of Tzeentch
Aspiring Champion, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades
4x Havoc, 4x Missile Launcher, 4x Flak Missiles

The plan is to have the Havocs sat in the back trying to score some kills. the bikes are going to try and pop some transports and the HQs are going to hang out with a unit of 1ksons in there rhinos.
Thanks for having a look.

Thousand sons are going to have an uphill struggle in any game they are in sadly. I would recommend taking some IA13 Rapier Batteries with hades autocannons, they come in at around 195 points for 3. You could even model some up as an ongoing magical ritual with the battery being the ritual circle (now that would be cool).

So I would suggest

2 units of 1k sons in rhinos (400 pts)
2 units of 3 rapier batteries with hades autocannons (390 pts)
1 sorcerer with spell familiar 75 pts

1 herald of tzeentch (45)
1 squad of pink horrors (90)

The horrors can either summon or cast prescience on the cannons (same with the herald).

Alternatively if you don't like daemons you can beef up the sorcerer (and put him on a bike) and buy a unit of chaos spawn for him to roll with (will be much more survivable than in a rhino and will mean he can actually fight folk in combat).

Hi thanks for the feed back. But i dont have any rapier batteries they look good but 6 of them is going to set me back a bit to much cash. I do have a 30 guards, 3 Leman Russ(2battle tanks and 1 punesher) 4 HW teams (2 autocannons, 2 missile Launchers) i have the IA13 book., i like the daemons side and i have around 20 horrors, 9 flamers, 3 screamers, 2 DPs and a LoC that i could add in.

Henvic wrote:
Hi guys im wanting a change of pace to my normal KDK so im going to try out this 1000points CSM (Thousand Son's) list and ill like ur feed back.

Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) (Combined Arms Detachment) (998pts)
HQ (310pts)
Dark Apostle (135pts)
Mark of Tzeentch, Plasma Pistol, Power Maul, Sigil of Corruption, Veterans of the Long War
Champion of Chaos, Demagogue, Independent Character, Mark of Tzeentch, Veterans of the Long War, Zealot

Sorcerer (175pts)
2x Additional Mastery Level, Bolt Pistol, Force Stave, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades, Mark of Tzeentch,
Melta bombs, Power Armour, Sigil of corruption, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War, Warlord
Champion of Chaos, Independent Character, Mark of Tzeentch, Psyker, Veterans of the Long War

Two HQ units in 1000pts might be a lot of eggs in one basket? Especially given that TS normally have very low model counts already, it might make it difficult to hold on to objectives when faced with a lot of high AP weapons like grav or plasma? What's the rationale behind the Apostle, all of your troops are fearless, so I'm not sure if he will be a strong addition? Perhaps drop him and replace with some cultists or spawn - generally more bodies.

Troops (404pts)
Thousand Sons (202pts)
Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War
Aspiring Sorcerer
Aura of Dark Glory, Bolt Pistol, Force Sword
Champion of Chaos, Psyker
Chaos Rhino
Combi-bolter, Havoc Launcher, Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Warpflame gargoyles
Repair, Transport Capacity: Rhino
4x Thousand Son, 4x Aura of Dark Glory, 4x Boltgun

Thousand Sons (202pts)
Fearless, Mark of Tzeentch, Slow and Purposeful, Veterans of the Long War
Aspiring Sorcerer
Aura of Dark Glory, Bolt Pistol, Force Sword
Champion of Chaos, Psyker
Chaos Rhino
Combi-bolter, Havoc Launcher, Searchlight, Smoke launchers, Warpflame gargoyles
Repair, Transport Capacity: Rhino
4x Thousand Son, 4x Aura of Dark Glory, 4x Boltgun

I like havoc launchers, and suspect they'll help add to the weight of fire of your marines, but that being said, four marines won't be putting out many shots to scare most opponents. I'd consider combining the two squads and adding cultists for your second troops tax? What's the rationale behind the Warpflame Gargoyles? If it's for fluff/rule of cool, then I get that, but I don't think they're a terribly good buy in general, letalone for a Rhino.

Fast Attack (99pts)
Chaos Bikers (99pts)
Mark of Tzeentch, 2x Meltagun
2x Chaos Biker, 2x Combi-bolter on Bike
Chaos Biker Champion, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Combi-bolter on Bike, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades

I like this, would you consider a combi-melta for the champ too? If you can find the points elsewhere, I think it would be a handy extra shot - if you're only shooting the two meltaguns, there's the risk one will miss and one will fail to pen! That extra shot might just be the one you need. If you're set on the Dark Apostle, perhaps give the Apostle a bolt pistol and use the points for a Combi-Melta here?

Heavy Support (185pts)
Havocs (185pts)
Mark of Tzeentch
Aspiring Champion, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Frag Grenades, Krak Grenades
4x Havoc, 4x Missile Launcher, 4x Flak Missiles

Some people poo-poo Flakk missiles - I personally think they're very expensive for something that's useless unless you face a flyer, but I'm assuming you're expecting to face a few? Last flyer I faced was in 500pts and I ignored it the whole game - it took a chunk out of my marine squad, then everything else in his army was dead and the flyer was all that remained!

I like the idea of Thousand Sons, but I feel that two HQ units and such a low model count will give you an uphill battle. I reckon consider one good strong unit of Thousand Sons, backed up by the Havocs and Bikes. Cultists for an objective holding unit slash distraction? Keen to hear your thoughts on my thoughts!

ok after looking at ur feed back have made a second list. gone for more troops on the group as well as adding more speed in the raptors and spawn (was also thinking of a maulerfiend but i dint have much to deal with hordes if i took him. i play vs a lot of orcs and nids) . The Dark apostle and the warpflame gargoyles was just there because i just like them.

++ Chaos Space Marines: Codex (2012) (Combined Arms Detachment) (999pts) ++

+ HQ (175pts) +
Sorcerer (175pts) [2x Additional Mastery Level, Bolt Pistol, Force Stave, Mark of Tzeentch, Melta bombs, Power Armour, Sigil of corruption, Spell familiar, Veterans of the Long War, Warlord]

+ Troops (369pts) +
Chaos Cultists (75pts) [9x Cultists, Heavy Stubber, Mark of Tzeentch, 8x Replace Autopistol with Autogun]
Cultist Champion [Shotgun]
(im just going to camp the cultists in cover just to be a pain and to hold a mid/back line objective. the shotguns just there because i had 2 points to spare and it looks cool)

Thousand Sons (294pts) [8x Thousand Son]
Aspiring Sorcerer [Force Sword, Melta Bombs]
Chaos Rhino [Havoc Launcher]
( bumped them up to 9 so the sorcerer can go with them in the rhino and i only have 8 modelled with boltguns)

+ Fast Attack (305pts) +
Chaos Bikers (112pts) [2x Chaos Biker, Mark of Tzeentch, 2x Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War]
Chaos Biker Champion [Close Combat Weapon, Combi-melta]
(added the Combi-melta as you said because nothing sucks as much as not killing the tank then just getting smashed to bits after because you pissed it off)

Chaos Spawn (68pts) [Mark of Tzeentch, 2x Spawn]

Raptors (125pts) [2x Flamer, Mark of Tzeentch, 4x Raptor, Veterans of the Long War]
Raptor Champion [Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon]

+ Heavy Support (150pts) +
Havocs (150pts) [4x Havoc, Mark of Tzeentch, Missile Launcher, Missile Launcher, Missile Launcher, Missile Launcher, Veterans of the Long War]
Aspiring Champion [Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon]
(droped the flak but kept the Missile Launchers as there what i prefer my havocs to have as it gives me a blast for all the nids and boyz but something to do damage to the rhinos that your always going to find when you play a pick up game at ur FLGS)

im thinking of using this as my core for my CMS and then if i play bigger games im going to and a second CAD of Tzeentch daemons id like to keep it a all Tzeentch army. Thanks for the feed back.

Henvic wrote:
ok after looking at ur feed back have made a second list. gone for more troops on the group as well as adding more speed in the raptors and spawn (was also thinking of a maulerfiend but i dint have much to deal with hordes if i took him. i play vs a lot of orcs and nids) . The Dark apostle and the warpflame gargoyles was just there because i just like them.

Hey, as a fellow Chaos player, you don't need to do anything to justify an army selection beyond "rule of cool". We're one of the bottom armies for competitiveness anyway, so I figure "take what you think is awesome". I love painting and modelling Chaos, and I love their play style, even if our current codex is waaaaay out of date. So yeah, take what you like at the end of the day! If it's something you like, you're more likely to be passionate about modelling and painting it.

+ Troops (369pts) +
Chaos Cultists (75pts) [9x Cultists, Heavy Stubber, Mark of Tzeentch, 8x Replace Autopistol with Autogun]
Cultist Champion [Shotgun]
(im just going to camp the cultists in cover just to be a pain and to hold a mid/back line objective. the shotguns just there because i had 2 points to spare and it looks cool)

Yeah, I reckon this is a good use for Cultists - I myself have the Helbrute/Cultists detachment in my current army, and I love it. They're perfect for adding bodies to the table because they're so cheap and cheerful. I go back and forth on the heavy stubber myself - on one hand, it's nice to give them an upgraded weapon to maybe kill something in the shooting phase, but it's not a terribly good weapon. I agree with the shotgun - it looks cool, and if the extra shot kills something once in every twenty games, it's two points well spent. If you find yourself facing hordes, the shots from this squad will hopefully contribute something even when objective camping. If you find them getting charged a lot, perhaps consider swapping the stubber for the flamer for the extra overwatch - if you're facing orks and nids, it's going to do more on overwatch than the stubber.

Thousand Sons (294pts) [8x Thousand Son]
Aspiring Sorcerer [Force Sword, Melta Bombs]
Chaos Rhino [Havoc Launcher]
( bumped them up to 9 so the sorcerer can go with them in the rhino and i only have 8 modelled with boltguns)

I reckon this is pretty solid, especially against nids and orks. As long as they don't get swamped, hopefully combined with the Rhino they can pump some serious anti-horde firepower into units you can isolate from the horde.

+ Fast Attack (305pts) +
Chaos Bikers (112pts) [2x Chaos Biker, Mark of Tzeentch, 2x Meltagun, Veterans of the Long War]
Chaos Biker Champion [Close Combat Weapon, Combi-melta]
(added the Combi-melta as you said because nothing sucks as much as not killing the tank then just getting smashed to bits after because you pissed it off)

Yeah, I like this. Plus, if you're facing against a horde, you've still got the t/l bolter shots to support your other units.

Chaos Spawn (68pts) [Mark of Tzeentch, 2x Spawn]

Again, a nice pair of extra bodies to throw onto the table to tie up units or generally distract stuff.

Raptors (125pts) [2x Flamer, Mark of Tzeentch, 4x Raptor, Veterans of the Long War]
Raptor Champion [Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon]

Some people would poo-poo Raptors, but if you're using them against hordes, the flamers should thin the numbers out before you charge. I like them.

+ Heavy Support (150pts) +
Havocs (150pts) [4x Havoc, Mark of Tzeentch, Missile Launcher, Missile Launcher, Missile Launcher, Missile Launcher, Veterans of the Long War]
Aspiring Champion [Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon]
(droped the flak but kept the Missile Launchers as there what i prefer my havocs to have as it gives me a blast for all the nids and boyz but something to do damage to the rhinos that your always going to find when you play a pick up game at ur FLGS)

Yeah, one of my regular opponents has a long fang squad with four (five?) missile launchers and they regularly put the hurt onto my CSMs if I'm not using cover well - the frag missiles tear chunks out of my cultists, and four S8 AP3 shots upset the Helbrute and my marines alike. I like the all-ML or all-Autocannon havoc squads for versatility.

im thinking of using this as my core for my CMS and then if i play bigger games im going to and a second CAD of Tzeentch daemons id like to keep it a all Tzeentch army. Thanks for the feed back.

Sweet, hopefully it works out for you! Playing Tzeentch CSMs means you're on an uphill battle to be competitive (although as CSMs, we're already in that boat unless we're Nurgle) so I respect that you're going for something you like. Good luck with it!

Cheers it's not a problem for me to not be competitive as there's only a few people in my local store that play the likes of necrons (and one of just runs units of flayes ones) and eldar, we some how must have all of the nids, orc and dark eldar (there has to be atm 4 dark eldar players) player it's almost 4 out of 5 games you play it's vs them. One last thing is I'm not 100% on what powers to get I was thinking of trying to get doombolt and the maby warpspeed or iron arm?

Yeah, my local store generally follows the rule of cool - one bloke was in scheming about how to best run a unit of mutilators - not IF he should run them, but HOW. That's my kind of play style too, so it's sweet.

I've never really tried much psychic with Chaos. The "Boon of Mutation" power really puts me off the Tzeentch chart - taking a straight S4 Ap- hit for the CHANCE of rolling up a useful perk? Doesn't strike me as a good trade off to potentially lose a wound on the warlord or outright kill a champion in a unit... I've read a lot on here about Telepathy being useful to steer Chaos to a more competitive stance with Invisibility on key units, but it's a 1 in 6 chance to get it. I don't mind Biomancy as much for trying to get Iron Arm, as at least the primaris power can be useful, especially when combined with your AP3 bolters against marines!