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Returning player here, been out of it for awhile. Any notes and tips would be greatly appreciated, especially about other army builds that would be the rock to my scissors that I should look out for.

Formation: Nemesis Strikeforce

Librarian
-Liber Daemonica

Tech Marine

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Hammer
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Hammer
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Hammer
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Hammer
-Psycannon

Dreadnought
-Missile Launcher
-TL Lascannon

Dreadnought
-Missile Launcher
-TL Lascannon

Dreadnought
-TL Autocannon
-TL Autocannon

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Heavy Incinerator

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Heavy Incinerator

Comm Relay

-1850 points

So the Librarian, Terminators, and Dreadknights will start the game in Deep Strike Reserve. I deploy the Tech Marine, the Dreadnoughts and the Comms Relay in cover. The Techie gives a +1 to cover so everyone should get a 3+ or a 4+ cover save and can repair whatever damage they do take. Turn one I roll for reserves, Comms gives me rerolls. The termies and knights engage with the dreadnoughts providing range support.

Not a fan of named characters so no Drago. Heavy Psycannon for the dreadknights struck me as too pricey so I threw a reg psycannon in each termie squad instead. Venerable for the dreadnoughts seemed like a waste too, they have twin linked weapons and a techie right beside them.

So what do you all think?

The list is still very formative and I've already decided to make some changes. So for posterity, here is the updated list:

Formation: Nemesis Strikeforce

Librarian
-Level 3
-Nemesis Hammer
-Cuirass of Sacrifice
-Liber Daemonica


Tech Marine

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Hammer
-Nemesis Halberd
-Nemesis Falchions
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Falchions
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Falchions
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Falchions
-Psycannon

Dreadnought
-Missile Launcher
-TL Lascannon

Dreadnought
-Missile Launcher
-TL Lascannon

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon

Comm Relay

-1850 points

I realized I was too caught up in the Terminator psycannon vs Dreadknight heavy psycannon when I figured, why choose? Both were better options than the autocannon dreadnought, so I scrapped it. With the extra points I kitted out my librarian. Level 3 and the Daemonica give him 4 powers, Cuirass gives him Feel No Pain and It Will Not Die. Termies get some melee weapons for a little extra pop in CC.

Looks like solid list in my opinion, I personally tend to run halberds on most of my terminators with some falchions and a hammer in there to, I think the extra strength is that little bit better in CQC vs MEQ

The two dreadknight idea is something I see used a lot but currently I only use one.. I also think interceptors are cool additions as you can teleport right to objective you need to get last minute and dish out some firepower when you get there as well.

Watch out for putting al your hammers on justicars, they can be challenged out.

I would switch dreadnaughts to interceptors/ purifiers.

Pretty sure you can't put double relics on one model. But I don't have my book in front of me. Perhaps someone could confirm for me?

I'm assuming the comms relay is on an ADL. You can't just take one on its own. Beware the tech marine can't buff that particular piece of scenery.

Lastly I'd try and find at least 10 points for hammers on the dread knights. Or 20 for the more competitive sword. It gives the dread knight force at the very least which can be invaluable for smashing MC's and such.

Ons relic per character indeed.

Also lots of pointe in hqs. Not Sure about the techmarine though.

arthorn wrote:
Ons relic per character indeed.

Also lots of pointe in hqs. Not Sure about the techmarine though.

I thought as much. And I agree completely. The tech marine is offering you very little.

In 1850; a second libby or a grand master could be nice! if you need aa take storm talon. If not I would take interceptors(10 man) for Cc. Or a perifier 10 man with incinerators (4) in a rhino.

 SuperBerzerker12 wrote:
Looks like solid list in my opinion, I personally tend to run halberds on most of my terminators with some falchions and a hammer in there to, I think the extra strength is that little bit better in CQC vs MEQ

The two dreadknight idea is something I see used a lot but currently I only use one.. I also think interceptors are cool additions as you can teleport right to objective you need to get last minute and dish out some firepower when you get there as well.

Yeah, I do like the GK melee options. I like interceptors but for a bit more I feel like I'd go for the knight w/ teleporter. They do the same thing essentially but those heavy weapon options look nice.

arthorn wrote:
Watch out for putting al your hammers on justicars, they can be challenged out.

I would switch dreadnaughts to interceptors/ purifiers.

arthorn wrote:
Ons relic per character indeed.

Also lots of pointe in hqs. Not Sure about the techmarine though.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

arthorn wrote:
Ons relic per character indeed.

Also lots of pointe in hqs. Not Sure about the techmarine though.

I thought as much. And I agree completely. The tech marine is offering you very little.

arthorn wrote:
In 1850; a second libby or a grand master could be nice! if you need aa take storm talon. If not I would take interceptors(10 man) for Cc. Or a perifier 10 man with incinerators (4) in a rhino.

Techmarine and Dreadnoughts are out. I read up on what exactly a nova power is and wow, purifiers are in. It gives me the extra pop in the psyker phase that an extra librarian would give me too to I feel like it's a great option, even as AA potentially. Hammers are off the Justicars and on to regular terminators. Librarian keeps his because it's half off.

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:
Pretty sure you can't put double relics on one model. But I don't have my book in front of me. Perhaps someone could confirm for me?

I'm assuming the comms relay is on an ADL. You can't just take one on its own. Beware the tech marine can't buff that particular piece of scenery.

Lastly I'd try and find at least 10 points for hammers on the dread knights. Or 20 for the more competitive sword. It gives the dread knight force at the very least which can be invaluable for smashing MC's and such.

Curass of Sacifice is out. Great Swords are in.

The comms relay I'm not too sure about. I originally got the idea from a BR with Ben Haynes from Challenge the Scorpion who took one in a game, along with some tanglewire. (Which he never ended up using lol.) According to the stronghold book, a Comms Rely counts as Battlefield Debris, which can be taken independently of a fortification? Or maybe that's only during certain scenarios? Maybe I'll e-mail the black library and get a definitive ruling on this. If I can't, I'll swap it out for ten halberds.

Updated list:

Formation: Nemesis Strikeforce

Librarian
-Level 3
-Nemesis Hammer
-Liber Daemonica

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Falchions
-Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Halberds
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Falchions
-Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Halberds
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Falchions
-Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Halberds
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Falchions
-Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Halberds
-Psycannon

Purifier Squad
-2x Incinerators
-2x Nemesis Halberds
-Dedicated Razorback
--Lascannon+TL Plasma Gun

Purifier Squad
-2x Incinerators
-2x Nemesis Halberds
-Dedicated Razorback
--Lascannon+TL Plasma Gun

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Nemesis Great Sword
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Nemesis Great Sword
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon

-1850 points

I put the purifiers in Razorbacks. I feel like Lascannons are a must have, so I'm gonna try and fit them in somewhere. The TL Plasma gun is nice too.

e1: After some research it seems Comms relays do have to be purchased as an upgrade, and I can't see myself dropping 70-75 pts for a re-roll. In my defence, I wasn't trying to bend the rules, it was just ambiguously worded. So I've edited my list accordingly.

e2: realized the incinerators are cheaper for the purifiers than the terminators. I was going to use the extra points for Teleport homers, so I can increase the reliability of my deep strikes somewhat, but then I realized they'd be useless, turn one I could only use them to deep strike into my own deployment zone. More melee weapons then.

e3: Would it be worthwhile to roll for Strategic Warlord Traits over the GK traits? Of the GK options, one is pretty much worthless (Daemonslayer), 2 are sub par (Hammer of Righteousness, Unyielding Anvil), one is okay (Perfect Timing), and the other two are good. (First to the Fray, Lore Master). Strategic has three subpar (Conquerer of Cities, Night Attacker, Divide to Conquer.) and three good ones (Master of Ambush, Strategic Genius (Basically the Comms Relay I wanted), and Princeps of Deceit.) I do get a re-roll for the GK traits however. I do have one question, I'm assuming if I roll Night Attacker and the mission does not include night fighting it's basically a total waste right? Or does it apply Night Fight to the mission regardless? Infiltrate, the three free pins, or the
+1 seize initiative+reserves re-roll is really tempting with this list. (I'm reading it as being able to give the purifiers infiltrate which allows their razorback to infiltrate as well, or being able to infiltrate my Dreadknights whom also have the jump special rule for extra movement.) Thoughts?

Thanks everybody for the help in making my list both legal and bad ass! I'm still all ears if you have any more thoughts.

In the tatics forum grey knight tips and tricks they are discussing how to use coms relay.

Looks a lot better now for me. However I would put the staff back in the libby, you don't want him to challenge since he's a psyker not a melee here like gm. But more important it grants ward(adamitum will)for 5+ deny the witch so its better to keep the staff.

Further More I dont know about the fire options(shooting from a vechiles)on razorback, If I am correct they don't have them, which means you Cant go rush up to the enemey.cleanse flame ap 4 godness! also a reason why you want 1 big squad and combat them in the rhino(less points spend on transport).

With the free points look at Maybe another lib/gm/bc. Maybe interceptor so you have a big shunt with the ndk and interceptors and a unit to take objectives(you can give them tp homer for no scatter on turn 2, can be combined with gate of infinity, in case the initial deepstrike doesnt work)

arthorn wrote:
In the tatics forum grey knight tips and tricks they are discussing how to use coms relay.

Looks a lot better now for me. However I would put the staff back in the libby, you don't want him to challenge since he's a psyker not a melee here like gm. But more important it grants ward(adamitum will)for 5+ deny the witch so its better to keep the staff.

Further More I dont know about the fire options(shooting from a vechiles)on razorback, If I am correct they don't have them, which means you Cant go rush up to the enemey.cleanse flame ap 4 godness! also a reason why you want 1 big squad and combat them in the rhino(less points spend on transport).

With the free points look at Maybe another lib/gm/bc. Maybe interceptor so you have a big shunt with the ndk and interceptors and a unit to take objectives(you can give them tp homer for no scatter on turn 2, can be combined with gate of infinity, in case the initial deepstrike doesnt work)

Okay, I see how the rhino and purifiers work together I'll go for that. Although it seems the rhino only has 2 fire points, so only two models can shoot from it? The five man squad might be better. Also, apparently you can only use witchfire powers from transports? Seems like they're going to have to disembark to use a nova power.

Reshuffled the melee weapons around a bit, and I've decided to bite the bullet on the ADL.

Formation: Nemesis Strikeforce

Librarian
-Level 3
-Liber Daemonica
-Storm Bolter

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Halberd
-Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Falchions
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Falchions
-Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Falchions
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Falchions
-Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Falchions
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Justicar w/ Nemesis Falchions
-Nemesis Hammer
-2x Nemesis Falchions
-Psycannon

Purifier Squad
-KotF w/ Nemesis Halberd
-2x Incinerators
-Dedicated Rhino

Purifier Squad
-KotF w/ Nemesis Halberd
-2x Incinerators
-Dedicated Rhino

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Nemesis Great Sword
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Nemesis Great Sword
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon

Aegis Defensive Line
-Comms Relay

-1850 points

feth it, I'll just take the ADL. Getting in my deep strike reserves ASAP is crucial. (Got 6 out of 8 units and my warlord there!) I'll just make a little mini garage for my Rhino's to start off in. If the enemy gets first turn, they'll at least get a 4+ cover save to boot, try and offset that weak armour. May be able to use it to fortify an objective as well. My units are all pretty much maxed out with worthwhile stuff to take and I can't afford another unit with 70 points. (Nor do I want to strip out all the melee weapons and the ADL for a basic 5 man strike squad or anything.) I could take 2 more terminators, but getting all my forces at once instead of piecemeal will probably save more than two terminator's lives. The librarian storm bolter isn't game changing but I'm a little OCD maybe and it's the only way to get the 1850 on the nose. (If it kills anything it's a net positive, and it should take down one model at least. I could maybe take melta bombs instead I guess.) Same with the purifier KotF halberds. They shouldn't be in combat but for 4 pts it looks nice on paper and on the board.

Starting to feel pretty good about this list.

Nova is a type of witchfire, so it can be fired from the Rhino.

As you mentioned, with only 2 fireports on the Rhino, I usually just run a 5 man squad in each Rhino with 2 spec weapons (I like Psycannons, others have heatedly argued for Flamers - I tried flamers this weekend at a few matches and immediately regretted, although YMMV)


If this is a competitive list, I'd drop a Termy Squad or two and try to get a flier or Land Raider. Both will let you bring Las-Cannons, flier will let you handle enemy fliers, which tend to absolutely wreck face in competitive situations.


I have never had any success with rolling on the GK's Warlord Table and either run Personal or Strategic.

The ADL is nice to get your Rerolls and absolutely imperative if you want to run this as an Alpha-Strike type build.

arthorn wrote:
In the tatics forum grey knight tips and tricks they are discussing how to use coms relay.

Looks a lot better now for me. However I would put the staff back in the libby, you don't want him to challenge since he's a psyker not a melee here like gm. But more important it grants ward(adamitum will)for 5+ deny the witch so its better to keep the staff.

Just wanted to point out that a ML3 Grey Knight Psyker with Adamantium Will will usually (vs ML2 / ML1 psykers) deny on 3+, rerolling 1s.

6 base, +1 Adamantium Will, +1 Psyker, +1 being higher Master Level than the caster - and The Aegis for the 1s.

So even without the Staff you'll be more efficient than most casters (4+ DtW rerolling 1s)

 Rommel013 wrote:
Nova is a type of witchfire, so it can be fired from the Rhino.

As you mentioned, with only 2 fireports on the Rhino, I usually just run a 5 man squad in each Rhino with 2 spec weapons (I like Psycannons, others have heatedly argued for Flamers - I tried flamers this weekend at a few matches and immediately regretted, although YMMV)


If this is a competitive list, I'd drop a Termy Squad or two and try to get a flier or Land Raider. Both will let you bring Las-Cannons, flier will let you handle enemy fliers, which tend to absolutely wreck face in competitive situations.


I have never had any success with rolling on the GK's Warlord Table and either run Personal or Strategic.

The ADL is nice to get your Rerolls and absolutely imperative if you want to run this as an Alpha-Strike type build.

nekooni wrote:

arthorn wrote:
In the tatics forum grey knight tips and tricks they are discussing how to use coms relay.

Looks a lot better now for me. However I would put the staff back in the libby, you don't want him to challenge since he's a psyker not a melee here like gm. But more important it grants ward(adamitum will)for 5+ deny the witch so its better to keep the staff.

Just wanted to point out that a ML3 Grey Knight Psyker with Adamantium Will will usually (vs ML2 / ML1 psykers) deny on 3+, rerolling 1s.

6 base, +1 Adamantium Will, +1 Psyker, +1 being higher Master Level than the caster - and The Aegis for the 1s.

So even without the Staff you'll be more efficient than most casters (4+ DtW rerolling 1s)

Well, needing some lascannons and already being resistant to psykers maybe I can play with the points a bit more. Somebody did mention early my HQ is a bit expensive, and he is. Only 2 wounds and a 5+ invulnerable, no FNP, no IWND, no CC, a bunch of chances at PotW...

Maybe I run a bare bones Librarian, reshuffle some melee weapons, and take an extra Razorback with Lascannon and TL Plasmagun? (Or just a TL lascannon?) Or i could still keep the liber daemonica if i dump almost all my falchions. Scatter some Halberds in their place.

When it comes to flyers, I'm honestly not to worried. Maybe I should be? But eldar flyers are only AV 10, I got almost 30 rending S7 shots, 2-3 S5 assault 2d6 auto hit soul blazing (Not that SB is a game changer) cleansing flames. If the flyer tries to hover, I got the dreadknights who can shunt or jump, and a vortex of doom maybe. So if I really need too, I can take them down. Something like the stormraven I'd have trouble with, but it would have to knock out the razorback, both rhinos, and a couple terminators in 3-4 turns max to make it's points back. (And if it tries to hover I can swat at it with hammers or knights.)

I don't think a LR would ever survive past turn two tops.

Leaning this way as my final list (Or close to it.):

Formation: Nemesis Strikeforce

Librarian
-Liber Daemonica

Terminator Squad
-Nemesis Hammer
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Nemesis Hammer
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Nemesis Hammer
-Psycannon

Terminator Squad
-Nemesis Hammer
-Psycannon

Purifier Squad
-2x Incinerators
-Dedicated Rhino

Purifier Squad
-2x Incinerators
-Dedicated Rhino

Razorback
-TL Lascannon

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Nemesis Great Sword
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon

Dreadknight
-Personal Teleporter
-Nemesis Great Sword
-Heavy Incinerator
-Heavy Psycannon

Aegis Defensive Line
-Comms Relay

-1850 points

Put an objective down far into my deployment zone, plop down the razorback, build the wall around it, stick the comms relay within 3". Shock and awe mass deepstrike with the termies and dreadknights, flank with purifiers and rhinos.

Keep in mind that your 30 Rending S7 Shots are only if everything is 12" away from it and they don't have sky fire, plus the Cleansing Flame only has a 9" Radius and requires 2 warp charges (so you're throwing 4-5 Warp Dice at it to reliably proc') and by pairing down your Libby, you're looking at 12 + d6 Warp Charges to go around for Cleansing Flames, Libby Spells, Force/Sanct on your Termies/NDKs.

Assuming a perfect firing arc so that all your termies and both NDKs can get the higher salvo number, you're popping off 28 shots, which statistically speaking will net you 4.6 hits, which means vs armor 10, you're getting 2.3 hits through (rending is irrelevant here), but that's literally your entire army (save the libby, Purifiers and Razorback) to do it and it means your Termies and NDK now can't charge or split fire onto anything else on the board.

It also assumes no Jinking and... well.... you know.

Competitive Nid lists (yes they do exist) seem to be Fly-rant based these days and they will absolutely wreck games if you don't have a serious anti-air platform.

IG get the AV 12 Front and Side Valkyrie and Vendetta (130 points for 3 twin-linked Lascannons).

Heldrake is still a thing at Front/Side AV12 and 5++ Invuln

Edit: I think the Nephilim might be AV 12 Front and Side too (or maybe it's AV 11, I can't seem to find the info, atm)


Current 7th Ed Meta really forces you to either bring a flier of your own or have enough anti-flier to be prepared for it. Plus, being a GK, you get the god damn Stormraven which is fantastic.



Getting away from the Fliers/No Fliers debate for a second:

I've had pretty good luck with running Land Raiders, although, to be fair, I haven't faced any new Tau hawtness, so who knows how they will stand up against those.

It might also behoove you to flirt with some Vindicare Assassin action. GK's don't have much for long ranged ranged combat that doesn't roll on treads (long gone are the 6th Ed DakkaDread Lines with S8 Psybolt ammo :sadface: ) and the Assassin can help with that. I've been bring the Vincare along pretty often these days and - except the days he decides to be a VindiCAN'T - he either locks down entire sections of the board or pulls enough fire that makes the NDK's and Purifier/Rhino teams steamroll the enemy.

I also like bringing 1 Gatling Psilencer on an NDK to deal with enemy MCs or Multi-Wound Point Sinks. Proc' Force on it and throw 12 shots, hope for one to threaten a wound (statistically speaking, you will get 1 wound vs Toughness 6/7) and try not to laugh as your opponent rage removes their big bruisers from the table after getting nicked by a stray bullet.
Again, all of this is just my observations (as far from the best GK player around) and pertaining to my local meta and my completely unprofessional observations at Tournies (which you might not even care about).

I'd probably stick with ML 3 for your Libby and dump the Liber Daemonica (although I know others would slap me for this), mostly because you're not running a Deathstar build that needs the utility spells or GoI fishing from it and I think you'll run low on Warp Dice more often than not. I also tend to play pretty reservedly with my Libby (mostly to deny Warlord VP since they only have 2 wounds and keep my Warp Dice pool nice and high)

Edit: Typo and Formatting

 Rommel013 wrote:
Keep in mind that your 30 Rending S7 Shots are only if everything is 12" away from it and they don't have sky fire, plus the Cleansing Flame only has a 9" Radius and requires 2 warp charges (so you're throwing 4-5 Warp Dice at it to reliably proc') and by pairing down your Libby, you're looking at 12 + d6 Warp Charges to go around for Cleansing Flames, Libby Spells, Force/Sanct on your Termies/NDKs.

Assuming a perfect firing arc so that all your termies and both NDKs can get the higher salvo number, you're popping off 28 shots, which statistically speaking will net you 4.6 hits, which means vs armor 10, you're getting 2.3 hits through (rending is irrelevant here), but that's literally your entire army (save the libby, Purifiers and Razorback) to do it and it means your Termies and NDK now can't charge or split fire onto anything else on the board.

I think you should re-read what Salvo weapons are. They do not work like Rapid Fire, especially not on Relentless models like Terminators or NDKs - on those they have their full number of shots and full range all the time, and on non-Relentless models you can still get full Range and Shots if you don't move.

nekooni wrote:

 Rommel013 wrote:
Keep in mind that your 30 Rending S7 Shots are only if everything is 12" away from it and they don't have sky fire, plus the Cleansing Flame only has a 9" Radius and requires 2 warp charges (so you're throwing 4-5 Warp Dice at it to reliably proc') and by pairing down your Libby, you're looking at 12 + d6 Warp Charges to go around for Cleansing Flames, Libby Spells, Force/Sanct on your Termies/NDKs.

Assuming a perfect firing arc so that all your termies and both NDKs can get the higher salvo number, you're popping off 28 shots, which statistically speaking will net you 4.6 hits, which means vs armor 10, you're getting 2.3 hits through (rending is irrelevant here), but that's literally your entire army (save the libby, Purifiers and Razorback) to do it and it means your Termies and NDK now can't charge or split fire onto anything else on the board.

I think you should re-read what Salvo weapons are. They do not work like Rapid Fire, especially not on Relentless models like Terminators or NDKs - on those they have their full number of shots and full range all the time, and on non-Relentless models you can still get full Range and Shots if you don't move.

You're 100% correct, I don't know why I thought they ran as Rapid Fire tbh.

Notes on lack of skyfire and inability to split fire/assault still apply.

Seems like some of these weakness are endemic to the GK list as a whole. Maybe I'll bite the bullet, drop 2x termies and the razorback, grab an IK Knight Crusader w/ melta and gatling death, and icarus autocannon upgrade. If I don't replace his stubber, I have enough points to give my libby lvl 3 again.

I'll still have a pure GK 1250-1500 point list, and roll the IK ally for competitive 1850+. (More upgrades for the lower list, pare them down to bring in the IK in 1850)

I really like the gatling psilencer, but it seems like it's only worth it vs tyranids.(I did watch a BR where it murdered a FMC per turn. Good stuff.)

Sounds good With the ik, i was thinking something simular For 1850, also jeff gave This as advice to me