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Just think about it.

-They're cold, merciless robots.
-They hate all sentient organic life.
-They have amazingly superior technology.
-They rose against and enslaved their masters.
-They're just recently awakening after eons of dormancy.

The Men of Iron are too much like the necrons to ever be a separate army. Should they be combined?

What?
No!

If they did, There would probably be more outrage than when AoS was released

Plus why scrap all the years of the necron fluff? (even if Matt Ward's 5th Ed codex was TOMB KINGS IN SPACE)

I'd be all for another rewrite of the Necron fluff to something better than the awful "Space Tomb Kings" thing they went with, but I don't think the "men of iron" thing really fits either.

The only way that I could see combining the two would be the men of iron being infected after encountering a necron dormant tombworld and subsequently taking over so not necrons but influenced to tidy up the galaxy for them.

No.

Necrons - Aliens who were originally meant to be counterparts to chaos; law evil evil as opposed to chaotic evil, if you will.
They sort of aren't now with the whole separate dynasties theme they have going, but they are still the most lawful evil race in the game.
They are also the reason why Eldar, Orks and various other races exist, as those were created to fight the Necrons after bio-transference.

Men of Iron - Robots gone rogue created by the IoM, which serves as an important in lore reason as to why the IoM doesn't use AI and have an overall distrust of advanced tech.

Making Necrons and Men of Iron one and the same would ruin many aspects of the game's lore.


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Also this

Xenoesis wrote:
Just think about it.

-They are just recently reawakening after eons of dormancy.

Is wrong. There is nothing in the lore right now about the MoI returning. They were wiped out.
Gaunt did find an STC that could create them, but that had to be destroyed after Chaos infected it.

Likewise, there is nothing about them having advanced tech; one would think that the MoI would have the same tech as their creators, with possibly some minor improvements.

I think it'd be interesting if the Men of Iron uprising was caused by the Void Dragon's dreams infecting them. That'd be pretty neat

 EngulfedObject wrote:
I think it'd be interesting if the Men of Iron uprising was caused by the Void Dragon's dreams infecting them. That'd be pretty neat

Supposedly Chaos infected them, but yeah, Void Dragon is also a possibility.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Supposedly Chaos infected them, but yeah, Void Dragon is also a possibility.

Oh yea, I think it's implied in the first Gaunt's Ghosts story. But the Void Dragon being the cause would make for a better narrative and tie in the Necrons with human history.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Is wrong. There is nothing in the lore right now about the MoI returning. They were wiped out.
Gaunt did find an STC that could create them, but that had to be destroyed after Chaos infected it.

Likewise, there is nothing about them having advanced tech; one would think that the MoI would have the same tech as their creators, with possibly some minor improvements.

But we know they weren't wiped out entirely.

And their tech is, of course, super-advanced by Imperial standards, since it dates from the Age of Technology. They themselves are an STC tech. If there's even one functioning STC out there, they can return.

It just seems that the iron children are so much better at being the cold, merciless "enemy of everything" than the necrons, and on top of that, they've got the "horror out of the past" angle down, too, being the original nemesis of humanity. And even the necrons are all about the "rose against and enslaved their masters" bit. Just about the only thing about the necrons that the iron children don't have is "Egyptian."

Honestly you're description of Men of Iron just sounds like oldcrons to me.

Exactly.

So it seems like if there really was going to be a change like that it would be better just to remake oldcrons rather than make a whole new army.

Why? The fluff of the Necrons is just fine. Plus there's also the equivalent of them becoming the Men of Iron, which is the dynasties of the Necrons banding together. Also, if you wanted to bring the Men of Iron back, why not bring them back as their own faction and leave the Necrons alone?

On a side not, I would personally find that very boring and unnecessary to bring them back and/or get the Necron dynasties to unite since we already have two forces to bring about the end of the galaxy: Chaos (which I love because of their fluff and the fact that, even though they may not be defeatable, can be held at bay), and Tyranids (which I hate because they seem completely and utterly unstoppable). We don't need another faction to add to the apocalypse pool.

Back when Necrons came out in 2nd edition, and then added to in 3rd but with no concrete codex, I always thought it would be the coolest thing if they were Iron Men, back for vengeance against the living.

I think it was a missed opportunity.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
Back when Necrons came out in 2nd edition, and then added to in 3rd but with no concrete codex, I always thought it would be the coolest thing if they were Iron Men, back for vengeance against the living.

I think it was a missed opportunity.

Considering they can still theoretically introduce the Men of Iron, why is it a missed opportunity?

Because it would have been a really cool twist back then. You had the super-enigmatic background that existed back when they were first released as only a couple of models, ccoupled with many people being exposed to the Men of Iron in the fluff teaser in the back of the 3rd ed rulebook, and they could have even hearkened back to the old Chaos Androids of Rogue Trader.

It could have added a bit of the character theme of what the Newcrons would eventually be, back when people liked the Cthulhu-esque evil of the Oldcrons, while at the same time lots of people wished they were not quite so faceless.

Now there's too much going on to make a new mechanical race unique. How would you make them not feel too similar to either Necrons or Adeptus Mechanicus?

Fair call. And the introduction of the Adeptus Mechanicus races definitely makes it difficult to introduce yet another mechanical race. When Necrons were the only/primary one, it would have been easier, but now? I wouldn't have the first clue how to distinguish them. All I'm saying is that it's not off the cards for GW and/or FW to be able to introduce them. If they ever were to be introduced now, they definitely shouldn't replace the Necrons.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Men of Iron - Robots gone rogue created by the IoM, which serves as an important in lore reason as to why the IoM doesn't use AI and have an overall distrust of advanced tech.

Bolded part is not correct. The Men of Iron were created by humans during the Dark Age of Technology, tens of thousands of years before the Imperium existed. This event left a scar on humanity's collective psyche, leading to a distrust of technology and banning of AI by the Ad Mech.


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 IllumiNini wrote:

Considering they can still theoretically introduce the Men of Iron, why is it a missed opportunity?

I don't think they can. The Men of Iron were unequivocally destroyed. The only part that survived humanity exterminating them(back when STCs could still be created and reproduced) was a single lost STC machine that had been corrupted by chaos, and was thoroughly obliterated by Gaunt's Ghosts.

I think that ship has sailed by this point, though they probably would have done better by having them be the Men of Iron in the first place.

Jefffar wrote:
I think that ship has sailed by this point, though they probably would have done better by having them be the Men of Iron in the first place.

Disagree. The Old-cron fluff was actually pretty good. They were a nice lovecraftian horror from the dawn of time that is slowly waking up, with some terrible incomprehensible purpose known only to them. To their foes they were silent horrors advancing upon them inexorably bearing weapons of unfathomable power.

 Grey Templar wrote:
The Men of Iron were unequivocally destroyed. The only part that survived humanity exterminating them(back when STCs could still be created and reproduced) was a single lost STC machine that had been corrupted by chaos, and was thoroughly obliterated by Gaunt's Ghosts.

It wasn't just an STC Gaunt found; he also found hundreds, or thousands, of Iron Men in sleep mode, who later became activated.

And that wasn't the only surviving group of Iron Men. Others have shown up in at least one other publication I can recall. And it seems there almost have to be more out there. Even if not, the AdMech still hopes to find a functioning STC, and if there is one, it can start churning them out at any time.

We don't even know if the one Gaunt found (underground) was actually destroyed or just buried. He supposedly blew it up along with all the Iron Men, but no one was there to see it, and the bomb was just a demolition charge and some det-tape. He was just, "Well, I sure hope that got them. Now on to my next adventure." For all we know, the Iron Men are currently hollowing out that planet and filling the inside with an extermination armada.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 IllumiNini wrote:
Considering they can still theoretically introduce the Men of Iron, why is it a missed opportunity?

I don't think they can. The Men of Iron were unequivocally destroyed. The only part that survived humanity exterminating them(back when STCs could still be created and reproduced) was a single lost STC machine that had been corrupted by chaos, and was thoroughly obliterated by Gaunt's Ghosts.

Take a look at what Xenoesis said. I think (s)he got it right. The STC was obliterated as far as we know, but maybe not all of the Men of Iron, and for all we know, they could reproduce a Chaos-tainted STC and start reproducing themselves. Also, How do you know it was the only one in existence? If the publication Xenoesis is talking about is still considered canon, then your statement is definitely wrong. If it's not canon, then what is your official/canon source for this information? What makes you so sure it was the only one?

It is more than possible that other STCs capable of producing Men of Iron are lying around somewhere, tainted by Chaos or not. Ergo it is possible for the Men of Iron to return in some form or another. Hell, I reckon it would be really cool if there were three factions of them: (1) Chaos-tainted; (2) Those that align themselves with the Imperium; and (3) Those that don't align themselves with the Imperium. Could make for something really cool and interesting.

Grey Templar wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
I think that ship has sailed by this point, though they probably would have done better by having them be the Men of Iron in the first place.

Disagree. The Old-cron fluff was actually pretty good. They were a nice lovecraftian horror from the dawn of time that is slowly waking up, with some terrible incomprehensible purpose known only to them. To their foes they were silent horrors advancing upon them inexorably bearing weapons of unfathomable power.

This. I cannot agree with this more. That ship definitely has not sailed. It's just that it's now harder for them to do. And as Grey Templar said, the Oldcron stuff is awesome.

Why the hell would you even ask this?

feth no.

If it's at least half way to a decently written codex with half way decent fluff, I'll take it over Ward's filth any day of the week.

Otherwise, HELL NO.

Add me to the 'nope' pile.

Necrons are half of the reason for literally every bad thing that has happened in 40k, the other half being the Old Ones, and the only exception being the Tyranids.

To retcon them into being Men of Iron would cheapen and ruin so much of the fluff it would physically hurt to read it.

King Pariah wrote:If it's at least half way to a decently written codex with half way decent fluff, I'll take it over Ward's filth any day of the week.

But is that any reason to replace the Necrons with Men of Iron? Why not have both?

Robin5t wrote:Add me to the 'nope' pile.

Necrons are half of the reason for literally every bad thing that has happened in 40k, the other half being the Old Ones, and the only exception being the Tyranids.

To retcon them into being Men of Iron would cheapen and ruin so much of the fluff it would physically hurt to read it.

Not to mention retconning that much fluff would be so difficult and rendering so many novels and fan fiction pieces non-canon and no longer part of 40K, which would mean that it would make it not worth making the change.

Xenoesis wrote:


It just seems that the iron children are so much better at being the cold, merciless "enemy of everything" than the necrons, and on top of that, they've got the "horror out of the past" angle down, too, being the original nemesis of humanity. And even the necrons are all about the "rose against and enslaved their masters" bit. Just about the only thing about the necrons that the iron children don't have is "Egyptian."

Yeah, its called 3rd ed necrons. Necrons were always Egyptian, btw. It was just more subtle in 3rd edition.

You are still missing the part how making them one and the same would require a heavy lore rewrite, and thematically it would not make sense.
Not to mention that Necron tech is still more advanced than anything humans came up with. The Dark Age of Tech had some pretty scary stuff, but Necrons are still more advanced.

You are also missing how the Necrons were formally an organic race, and how they made a pact with Ancient God like beings who are the antithesis of the Chaos Gods.

They are just not the same. Necrons are Cybermen and MoI are more like Skynet with a bit of the Butlerian Jihad thrown in. They have similarities, but there are also distinct differences.

I suppose though one could compromise, and have the MoI be based on necron robotics tech or something.
Like, some guy finds an inactive necron, thinks "making a bunch of these and turning them into our servants would be neat," and they start replicating them.
Without the living metal and the space-time breaking tech, that is.

And then the Void Dragon finds out about it, and hacks the STCs making them, made all the more easier as they were based on his tech. Whoops.

I wonder if it'd be too dumb to link the two in a roundabout way? Maybe the Men of Iron were a splinter emergence of Necrons. Inspired by the sleeping Dragon on Mars, humans created AI constructs that unbeknownst to them, were essentially the mindless automata Oldcrons (similar to how that version can still be played in the Newcron dex).

Like has happened in many sci-fi stories, somehow explorers uncover a tombworld, or at least a damaged lord on a planet (or part of a tombship drifting in space) and somehow that links up and spreads to the Iron Men, which humans had unknowingly made so similar to real Necrons they are basically primed to be taken over. War ensues.

So if the Necrons finally wake enough forces for total war with them to happen, it'd essentially be the 2nd war of Humans versus Necrontyr, not that either force would realize it. It's just that the first war lacked any real C'tan involvement, if at all.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I wonder if it'd be too dumb to link the two in a roundabout way? Maybe the Men of Iron were a splinter emergence of Necrons. Inspired by the sleeping Dragon on Mars, humans created AI constructs that unbeknownst to them, were essentially the mindless automata Oldcrons (similar to how that version can still be played in the Newcron dex).

Like has happened in many sci-fi stories, somehow explorers uncover a tombworld, or at least a damaged lord on a planet (or part of a tombship drifting in space) and somehow that links up and spreads to the Iron Men, which humans had unknowingly made so similar to real Necrons they are basically primed to be taken over. War ensues.

So if the Necrons finally wake enough forces for total war with them to happen, it'd essentially be the 2nd war of Humans versus Necrontyr, not that either force would realize it. It's just that the first war lacked any real C'tan involvement, if at all.

Yeah, that could work. They'd then be linked, but not the same.

The Men of Iron were pretty much extinct ten thousand years even before the Horus Heresy. They have no place in the fluff of modern 40k and they are too similar in design to the Necrons to consider inclusion as a seperate army, but they are not similiar enough to be in the same codex. The Men of Iron are not in any way related to Necrons.
We are not going to get any new factions for quite some time, I guess (we just finally got AdMech after all these years). And if GW does finally make a new faction again, I'd rather have it be one that is totally unique and not similar to any existing 40k faction. A faction like the Hrud or Slaught or something like that. Not a dumb faction of mindless killer robots. It would be boring as feth.