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I don't know if this is the appropriate place to post this. I did not see any threads on the topic but maybe I missed them.

I have returned to the game after a 15 year hiatus. So far I have played one friendly game to get back into the swing of things.

I have read the 7th edition rule book and the Eldar Codex, but still have a couple of questions. Mainly because on-line I see a lot of different things and then can't find it in the rule book.

Here are my questions:

1. What weapons are Wave Serpents armed with? From what I could see it is one turret weapon (twin linked, but still just one weapon) and one under carriage weapon. I saw some people saying Wave Serpents put a lot of fire down range but unless I am missing something, if I had a scatter laser (on the turret) and upgraded to a shrunken cannon (on the undercarriage) the max amount of shots I would get are 7 (3 from SC and 4 from SL). Am I correct? I understand that all twin linked does is allows you to re-roll missed shots. I know you can shoot the wave shield but I don't see myself doing that.

2. How can a wave serpent get a better save than 4+ from Jink. I read something about holo field vehicle upgrades, but that says it is a 5+ save. I have seen posts saying a wave serpent could get a 3+ invulnerable save.

3. You only get one save correct? Or do you get a Jink save and then if you fail that and have holo fields you get an additional 5+ save?

Sorry if these are easy questions, I have the rules and have read them but am still confused. I figured these would be easy questions an experienced Eldar player could easily answer. Could you let me know where the answer is in the rule books so I can reference them.

Thanks so much! I am sure I will have more questions as time goes on.

Alystri

1. That is correct. For a transport that's decent power though.

2. That's probably discussions on the 6th ed codex where holo fields boosted cover saves.

3. Yes you only get one save.

I think the other fire power people are referencing is the Serpent Shield, which can be "fired" once per game and then you lose all the bonuses from it.

It was really bad with the last codex and got a lot of hate due it's over use and cheese factor.

That's probably what's confusing you about the Wave Serpent.

Not savvy on how eldar do it but a certain harlequin formation allows you to immediately embark if you hit&run out of combat and land within 2 inches of the transport. So:
Psychic phase add +1 invul to shadowseer and his unit.
Assualting phase hit&run to embark
Transport is now considering part of the shadowseers unit +1invul.

As for increased jink save that'd probably Stealth and Shrouded special rules. Those I also add from my own psychics.

Wave serpents were ridiculously strong in the Eldar 6th edition codex, they got toned down in the new book. Now wraithknights, warp spiders and jetbikes are all the rage. Maybe you have been reading some older discussions on Wave serpents?

Wave serpents are still strong. In 6th you were able to shoot the serpent shield for 1d6+1 S7 AP- ignores cover at 36" shots but you would lose the defensive benefit for that turn and you could do it every turn if you wanted. Now its once per game.

On the other hand they made wraithknights a gargantuan creature. I actually agree that t should be though. It never felt right that the Knight Titan (a model that is smaller on the table) could stomp on a wraithknight.

Once per game a Wave Serpant can fire it's Serpant Shield for a S6 Assault 2D6 AP - Ignores Cover attack.

Not the massive amounts of firepower the Serpant Shield offered in the previous codex where it could be fired every turn, but thats still extra fire power and used well can qipe out a troop squad holding an objective for you.

Serpents are still the best transports in the game. But dont expect more.

I think I figured it out how you can get a 3+ or even a 2+ save on a WS.

Unless I am mistaken if the WS is a dedicated transport and has a warlock in the unit it can cast conceal which will give it the shrouded ability. That gives it a +2 to its cover save. So with that it's jink save would be 2+. Seems like a good way to get some wraithguard into the fight since generally they have a warlock.

The other way would be to use a Striking Scorpions with a WS as a dedicated transport. They also have the stealth rule which gives them a +1 to cover saves. That would be a 3+ jink save. They also can infiltrate using shadow strike which will give them the shrouded rule. That gives them the +2, so now the WS has a 2+ jink save.

The way I look at it, this is helpful to get the WS close to the enemy while surviving, but there problem. Is you can't assault when disembarking so for the scorpions it is not extremely helpful. But for wraithguard it could work well.

Any thoughts?

Alystri wrote:
Unless I am mistaken if the WS is a dedicated transport and has a warlock in the unit it can cast conceal which will give it the shrouded ability.

The other way would be to use a Striking Scorpions with a WS as a dedicated transport. They also have the stealth rule which gives them a +1 to cover saves. They also can infiltrate using shadow strike which will give them the shrouded rule. That gives them the +2, so now the WS has a 2+ jink save.

The thing you're missing is that a Dedicated Transport isn't a member of the unit that bought it. It's just in the same slot on the army list like the different squads in an IG platoon for example. You don't have to deploy in the WS, next to it or even in the same way. It is a separate unit in all ways except only the squad that bought it can begin the game in it. Psychic powers or USRs that affect the unit won't help the WS unless they explicitly state so (like Scout/Outflank, IIRC).

If it was treated like a member of the squad it would have to shoot the same target, you could not go out of coherency with it and it would have to embark on itself if the squad jumps in, bringing the game to a halt in a grinding screech of failed logic.

Thanks for the clarification. I did not know that.

That does cause a strange effect. I did not know what people were talking about but now I see. Spamming WSs.

Since almost all squads can elect a WS, you could spam WS's and have a large amount of WS as gun ships. Their weaponry is not extremely weak and they do not have poor armor.

Since the WS does not count against
Heavy support you can have a lot more tanks.

I assumed if you bought a WS you had to be next to it or in it.......

I really appreciate all the help! Like I said, I am just trying to get my head wrapped around how to best run an eldar army.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Another question, shining spears get a 4+ cover save if they move becuase of the skilled rider ability. If I bought an independent character warlock and attached it to them, would the use of conceal grant the entire unit the shrouded ability. I know if you shoot you loose shrouded but it may be good for getting the unit a 2+ cover save and fly them around to contest objectives.

Or would that be a waste of points?

Alystri wrote:

Since the WS does not count against
Heavy support you can have a lot more tanks.

Another question, shining spears get a 4+ cover save if they move becuase of the skilled rider ability. If I bought an independent character warlock and attached it to them, would the use of conceal grant the entire unit the shrouded ability. I know if you shoot you loose shrouded but it may be good for getting the unit a 2+ cover save and fly them around to contest objectives.

Aye, extra guns on a vehicle - that's what the different marine flavors of Razorback spam were all about too. You could buy those even for squads too large to ride it and just use it as an extra tank, cover or roadblock. And with the Gladius you see that again...

You'd have to check the wordings of Conceal and the others to see if they stack, and I don't have an Eldar codex to do so, but Conceal IIRC affects the warlock and his unit. Whether a warlock is a waste of points or not is also personal preference - some Eldar players just run MSU (minimum size unit) bike squads with scatter lasers and see it as too costly to spend any more points. If you run bigger units it's probably worth it. Oh, besides - Eldar units buy the warlock as a unit upgrade these days, same as others can buy a veteran sergeant etc. I guess you don't have the new Codex yet?

You don't lose shrouded if you shoot.

Warlocks are not ICs. You cannot attach one to Shining Spears.

A Spirit Seer with Falchus wing, though...

There are better options than shining spears to use points on... like pretty much everything else in the eldar codex except for banshees. If you want some hard hitting fast attack slots go for Warp Spiders or Crimson Hunters. Heck even Vypers are better than shining spears especially now that you can take 6 in a single fast attack slot.

Bharring wrote:
Warlocks are not ICs. You cannot attach one to Shining Spears.

But the Shining Spear unit entry allows you to add a Warlock to the unit, as do several other Eldar unit entries. He's a character, just not an Independent Character. He can't leave the unit.

Seriously?!? How did I miss that?

Clearly a typo. No other Aspect has that option.