Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In what way did they get neutered?

Tau lost Eldar as battle brothers. Great loss, huh? There were all those articles about which was more cost effective, hundreds of points of markerlights, or a single farseer.

I love fighting tau. Nothing like watching them get all flustered that they have to move up within 2d6x2 range to even shoot at me

Sgt_Smudge wrote:Not sure how constructive this is, and OP is certainly able to try and change their playstyle to affect gameplay. This is not the only solution.

Fair enough. I do wish to address these comments to the OP:

1. I see in your signature that you own 1750 points of Tau. It probably wouldn't be fair of me or anyone else to insist that you not run your army, whatever it may be. 40k models are expensive. Putting them together and painting them also costs time and money. Unlike other people in this thread, I won't tell you not to run certain units. I also wont tell you that you should buy units that you don't have.

2. I will tell you, however, that you should play at a points disadvantage depending on your opponent. Your opponent is playing a non-optimized, non-tournament list? Your opponent, furthermore, is not running Tau or Eldar? Lets say...20-25% point advantage for your opponent. You run your 1750 list? Your opponent runs somewhere in the ballpark of 2100-2200 points worth of models.

Oh yes. The race which has always been described as being innovative and technically exceptional should have no bearing on the stagnant, decaying archaic procedure of the Imperium. [/sarcasm]

Even so, the following must be considered:

1. As technologically advanced as the Tau are, and as much progress as the Tau are making, the Imperium and the Eldar remain the most technologically advanced factions in the 40 universe. The Imperium has probably forgotten much more technology than the Tau will learn for hundreds, if not thousands, of years (if the IoM doesn't exterminate them before they have the chance). The great military advantage of the Tau, fluffwise, is that they are extremely adaptable and aren't bogged down by traditions. They aren't beholden to a little rulebook (unlike the Space Marines are) which tells them exactly what they should do in such and such circumstances.

In a universe that's playing by WWI and WWII rules, the tau are playing by the rules of modern warfare.

2. Granted that the Imperium is one of the, if not the, most technologically advanced faction in the 40k universe, the Space Marines are the Emporer's angels of death. They are the Emporer's fury. They are his special "children." As such, they have access to the best of the best that the Imperium has in the way of wargear. They are the best of the best, the cream of the crop, of what the Imperial forces have to offer. They are elite, genetically altered super soldier demigods, and they have the equipment to match

To speak broadly in Dragon Ball Z terminology: Space Marines are the Saiyans of the Imperium.

It makes absolutely no sense that some xenos hillbilly from some backwater planet should have a better gun simply because he decided to join the Communist party and enlist as a rank and file infantryman.

People are constantly berating Space Marine tacticals, and I've been criticized for saying that tactical marines should be better. But the fact is, a base troop choice in the space marines codex really is what should be equivalent to an elites choice in other codices.

No. Tau infantry should be able to shoot as good as space marines (on a good day), and Ork infantry. should be able to assault as good as space marines (on a good day). There should be none of this "better" nonsense.

If we wanted true-to-life marines, there would be only about five on the table in a 1000 point game.

There would be 20 on the table in a 1000 points game. I once recall someone telling me that, somewhere in the fluff, a certain space marine leader (possibly Rowboat Girlyman) asserts that 1 space marine = 10 imperial guardsmen in combat utility.

Okay, guys, I know I asked for suggestions and all

But I'm not going to burn all my rulebooks or melt down my models, okay? So please chill. ^^;

I'm not making anyone play against me, so if you don't like that my line infantry can beat up your bald ubermensch, put the chainsword away and just walk. Using gardening tools as weaponry isn't a more legit power fantasy than piloting cel-shaded robots. It doesn't make you a better person, and it doesn't mean your enjoyment of the game and the hobby is more important than mine.

I'm doing my best to listen and be a good, sporting opponent. I think there are a lot of valid criticisms of the effect that Tau have on the meta. "Anime fans go home" is not one of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Traditio wrote:
Fair enough. I do wish to address these comments to the OP:

I'm actually okay with having a points handicap if it makes a particular opponent feel better. >_>b I just feel like it's the kind of thing that would stick, you know? I'd rather address specific weaknesses of my opponent's list, and help them have a fair chance against what I brought.

I personally respect the Astartes as the super-powered soldiers they are in the fluff. I just also like that technology, unity, and tactics allow my Fire Warriors to go up against them and win. Whether on the squad level (which has a similar appeal to the IG) or using our battlesuits (which is like the closest thing we have to Terminators).

Super-soldiers need super-opponents.

 Jewelfox wrote:
Okay, guys, I know I asked for suggestions and all

But I'm not going to burn all my rulebooks or melt down my models, okay? So please chill. ^^;

With all due respect, if you're referring to me:

I didn't recommend that you burn the rulebooks or melt your models. In terms of practical advice, what I advised is that you play at a points disadvantage, depending on your opponent.

Traditio wrote:

 Jewelfox wrote:
Okay, guys, I know I asked for suggestions and all

But I'm not going to burn all my rulebooks or melt down my models, okay? So please chill. ^^;

With all due respect, if you're referring to me:

I didn't recommend that you burn the rulebooks or melt your models. In terms of practical advice, what I advised is that you play at a points disadvantage.

I think you should suggest they play with "wound/glance on 6's" bolters. That's practical.

But in all seriousness, play a very terrain heavy game or Zone Mortalis. It's a very good balance to Tau

Find a bunch of Necron or Eldar players and play them exclusively.

Tactical_Spam 684403 8535000 wrote:I think you should suggest they play with "wound/glance on 6's" bolters. That's practical.

1. They are essentially rocket propelled grenade launchers. Why do you think it's a stupid idea for space marines, when, in fact, dire avengers get bladestorm, necrons get gauss and Tau get S5, 30 inch range rapid fire weapons FOR THEIR BASE TROOPS?

People keep saying that boltguns are and should be the average. Except, they shouldn't be. Among Imperial forces outside of elite forces like the Space Marines, boltguns aren't average. Boltguns are elite weaponry. What is and should be average are lasguns.

2. The "you get hurt on a 6" rule wouldn't really help against Tau anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jewelfox wrote:Super-soldiers need super-opponents.

That's why Tyrranids and Necrons (as well as Chaos Space marines, and Chaos in general) exist.

Seriously, the Tau aren't super anything. They are much closer, fluffwise, to something like the Imperial Guard. As the soviet union was to the United States, so too are the Tau to the Imperium. Except not perceived as nearly as great of a threat.

Traditio wrote:

Tactical_Spam 684403 8535000 wrote:I think you should suggest they play with "wound/glance on 6's" bolters. That's practical.

1. They are essentially rocket propelled grenade launchers. Why do you think it's a stupid idea for space marines, when, in fact, dire avengers get bladestorm, necrons get gauss and Tau get S5, 30 inch range rapid fire weapons FOR THEIR BASE TROOPS?

People keep saying that boltguns are and should be the average. Except, they shouldn't be. Among Imperial forces outside of elite forces like the Space Marines, boltguns aren't average. Boltguns are elite weaponry. What is and should be average are lasguns.

2. The "you get hurt on a 6" rule wouldn't really help against Tau anyway.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jewelfox wrote:Super-soldiers need super-opponents.

That's why Tyrranids and Necrons exist.

Trust me, Traditio. If I could rewrite SM (of all flavours) to represent what they are in the fluff, I would.

 Baldeagle91 wrote:
Being a guard player I hate fighting tau almost as much as I hate fighting necrons.

Why? They out-shoot us

I play Crimson Fists (an IMPERIAL FISTS successor chapter). How do you think I feel?

If there's anyone in the 40k universe who should be able to outshoot everyone else, it's the Imperial Fists and their successor chapters.

Traditio wrote:

1. They are essentially rocket propelled grenade launchers. Why do you think it's a stupid idea for space marines, when, in fact, dire avengers get bladestorm, necrons get gauss and Tau get S5, 30 inch range rapid fire weapons FOR THEIR BASE TROOPS?

People keep saying that boltguns are and should be the average. Except, they shouldn't be. Among Imperial forces outside of elite forces like the Space Marines, boltguns aren't average. Boltguns are elite weaponry. What is and should be average are lasguns.

ITT: Impractical weapons of terror ought to beat out weapons of war

Traditio wrote:

Jewelfox wrote:Super-soldiers need super-opponents.

That's why Tyrranids and Necrons (as well as Chaos Space marines, and Chaos in general) exist.

Seriously, the Tau aren't super anything. They are much closer, fluffwise, to something like the Imperial Guard. As the soviet union was to the United States, so too are the Tau to the Imperium. Except not perceived as nearly as great of a threat.

You and I differ in our assessments.

Probably the best way to play against tau and hopefully have fun ( my opponent does when we do this at least ) is play on a board with a city mock up , lots of buildings designated into blocks . Oh and this setup actually makes vespid a ok choice

Traditio wrote:

Oh yes. The race which has always been described as being innovative and technically exceptional should have no bearing on the stagnant, decaying archaic procedure of the Imperium. [/sarcasm]

Even so, the following must be considered:

1. As technologically advanced as the Tau are, and as much progress as the Tau are making, the Imperium and the Eldar remain the most technologically advanced factions in the 40 universe. The Imperium has probably forgotten much more technology than the Tau will learn for hundreds, if not thousands, of years (if the IoM doesn't exterminate them before they have the chance). The great military advantage of the Tau, fluffwise, is that they are extremely adaptable and aren't bogged down by traditions. They aren't beholden to a little rulebook (unlike the Space Marines are) which tells them exactly what they should do in such and such circumstances.

In a universe that's playing by WWI and WWII rules, the tau are playing by the rules of modern warfare.

2. Granted that the Imperium is one of the, if not the, most technologically advanced faction in the 40k universe, the Space Marines are the Emporer's angels of death. They are the Emporer's fury. They are his special "children." As such, they have access to the best of the best that the Imperium has in the way of wargear. They are the best of the best, the cream of the crop, of what the Imperial forces have to offer. They are elite, genetically altered super soldier demigods, and they have the equipment to match

Got to correct you on this, because the Imperium aren't close to being the most technologically advanced faction in the 40k universe. It could be argued that they're more advanced than the Tau, but the Eldar factions and the Necrons are far, far above them in terms of tech level, and there are other, more minor factions like the Slaugth who are also superior in their fields of expertise.

Between all of them, Necrons sit at the top, however.

Robin5t wrote:Tot to correct you on this, because the Imperium aren't close to being the most technologically advanced faction in the 40k universe. It could be argued that they're more advanced than the Tau, but the Eldar factions and the Necrons are far, far above them in terms of tech level, and there are other, more minor factions like the Slaugth who are also superior in their fields of expertise.

Between all of them, Necrons sit at the top, however.

I don't necessarily want to disagree with anything that you've said. I do, however, wish to note the following:

1. Necron warriors are 13 ppm. Necron immortals are 15 ppm. [In my view, Necron troops are undercosted for what they do, but let's ignore this for the time being.] Dire avengers are 13 ppm. Tactical marines are 14 ppm. Fire warriors are 9 ppm. One of these things is not like the other. Just saying.

2. Regardless of who precisely is "Top Dog," it nonetheless still has to be admitted that the Tau simply aren't it. They are a new, fledgling society. Are they up and coming with great promise? Sure. Their situation is comparable to that in which China is now when compared to the United States [except, of course, the Tau are significantly less of a threat in the eyes of the Imperium].

It simply makes no sense that their 9 ppm xenos version of imperial guardsman should be able to outshoot my 14 ppm super soldiers. This is simply indisputable.

It would be like an average Chinese soldier being able to outshoot Captain America, presupposing that Captain America has been armed with the best small arms that the United States has to offer.

 Jewelfox wrote:
I'm doing my best to listen and be a good, sporting opponent. I think there are a lot of valid criticisms of the effect that Tau have on the meta. "Anime fans go home" is not one of them.

IMO your willingness to use lots of terrain is already a good thing. My Tau buddy has never done my SoB over as badly as poor Martel's Blood Angels seem to fare (one story was 1200 pts wiped out in one turn IIRC), in fact I've yet to lose against him. Sure, he doesn't own a Riptide but he does have a solid core of suits, vehicles and infantry. With terrain on the board my Rhino rush will usually get most of my girls at least within range for bolters, at which point Firewarrior squads can already break and run. Once the outflanking Dominions in Immolators come in it's total chaos in his lines. The game usually ends with his suits jumping around trying to not give my Exorcist LOS. But I guess it's because he's a very bad player, or I'm very good, or the SoB are simply the best army vs Tau, not because I plan what to kill based on how easy it is vs what benefit it provides him.

In all honesty it seems (to me at least) that the worst problem with Tau isn't their power, even if it is considerable, but that players refuse to change tactics to deal with them. When facing any other army most units are independent - they have all their killing power in themself and wiping that unit out is the only way to stop it. But the Tau share power. Cripple the markerlight units and all the rest are weakened, kill the Buffmander and lose his buffs etc. Why do people insist on pouring fire into a buffed Riptide when they could wipe out the guys giving it buffs first? It's not likely to die in one turn (and if it does then the crying was unnecessary) but the ML guys will. Marines in drop pods should be able to do it way easier than my SoB in tanks. If the Tau player has infantry left at the end of the game you've done something wrong.

Hmm. Terrain, as you said. Skip the formations. Take some Devilfish and Hammerheads so your opponent can feel good about blowing up tanks. Maybe use that crappy flyer? Though I guess they'll cry about lacking AA if you do. Some people are never happy.

To be honest I feel the same way about Necrons as others do about Tau/Eldar. Can't kill them, can't stop them and their badly balanced flyers also fall over and break your models. ;-)

Traditio wrote:

Robin5t wrote:Tot to correct you on this, because the Imperium aren't close to being the most technologically advanced faction in the 40k universe. It could be argued that they're more advanced than the Tau, but the Eldar factions and the Necrons are far, far above them in terms of tech level, and there are other, more minor factions like the Slaugth who are also superior in their fields of expertise.

Between all of them, Necrons sit at the top, however.

I don't necessarily want to disagree with anything that you've said. I do, however, wish to note the following:

1. Necron warriors are 13 ppm. Necron immortals are 15 ppm. [In my view, Necron troops are undercosted for what they do, but let's ignore this for the time being.] Dire avengers are 13 ppm. Tactical marines are 14 ppm. Fire warriors are 9 ppm. One of these things is not like the other. Just saying.

2. Regardless of who precisely is "Top Dog," it nonetheless still has to be admitted that the Tau simply aren't it. They are a new, fledgling society. Are they up and coming with great promise? Sure. Their situation is comparable to that in which China is now when compared to the United States [except, of course, the Tau are significantly less of a threat in the eyes of the Imperium].

It simply makes no sense that their 9 ppm xenos version of imperial guardsman should be able to outshoot my 14 ppm super soldiers. This is simply indisputable.

It would be like an average Chinese soldier being able to outshoot Captain America, presupposing that Captain America has been armed with the best small arms that the United States has to offer.

I disagree.

The Imperium have been in a state of technological regression. There is a huge power disparity throughout the the Imperium, with an emphasis on utility and ease of manufacture for the guardsman, and shock and awe/icon of Emperor's power for the Astartes. Lasguns ARE the baseline gun in the fluff, which relates to why the bolter is better. And we can all agree that there is a huge power game between fluff marines and game marines.

Does this mean that they should be the best around. Absolutely not.

The Tau Empire have none of the division the Imperium does. In the Imperium, the Adeptus Mechanicus hordes tech, keeping it for their own legions and giving Astartes the bolters for which they are always depicted as carrying. In Tau society, there are far less men to equip, so the baseline is far higher. The Tau's age as a race is irrelevant, considering that they can still have developed incredibly quickly. If we were to pit every Space Marine against every Tau, the marines would outnumber the Tau. Yet they survive. They've adapted to be able to bring down Astartes and have some of the strongest weapons. This completely fits with their fluff.

I have no idea why you're trying to use real life examples here, or at least I don't understand them. What would be a far better premise is Captain America with his top-of-the-line ballistic weapons, and the Chinese army with railguns. Except, Cap has plot armour, strongest of all. Marines don't.
And it absolutely makes sense that one faction's baseline could beat another considering the sizes of their domain. The Imperium has a lot of resources, but has to divide them around the galaxy, yet the Tau can concentrate them for a smaller force, ending up with a better baseline.

As you seem to think that NOTHING should be able to beat your 14ppm demigods, consider this. In terms of game balance, Tau and Marines are costed about right. Space Marines have a lot of statline changes, and try to be good at everything. Tau, as befitting their philosophy, are essentially min-maxers. Their baseline stats aren't exceptional, but all of their points go into their gun. Unlike all of the other races you cited, the Tau are the only one (bar the Dire Avenger, of who's stats I'm not sure of) with a guardsman statline.
On a meta level, their points are better spent, but that's an issue with shooting's dominance in 7th.

Martel is also in the gakky situation where his group ( which has a multiple tau ) refuse to have LOS blocking terrain at all.

kambien wrote:
Martel is also in the gakky situation where his group ( which has a multiple tau ) refuse to have LOS blocking terrain at all.

So they basically make shooting even better than it already is? No wonder he's in trouble then.

Sgt_Smudge wrote:I disagree.

The Imperium have been in a state of technological regression.

They're still technologically more advanced, so far as I'm aware, than the Tau, no?

I'm sorry, but I simply cannot see one of the technologically most advanced societies giving their elite super soldiers guns which are inferior to the rank and file soldiery of a technologically inferior society.

Does this mean that they should be the best around. Absolutely not.

They most certainly SHOULD be the best around, in terms of base infantry, relative to non-elite, non-exceptional infantry. There is nothing exceptional or elite about the average fire warrior.

As Imperial Guard are to IoM, so too are Tau to the Xenos.

I have no idea why you're trying to use real life examples here, or at least I don't understand them.

China is, I assume, technologically and economically inferior to the United States. It's on its way up, of course, but currently, the US is still number one. Let us take a random Chinese soldier, given standard equipment for a Chinese soldier. Let us further assume that Captain America has the best wargear that the United States has to offer.

Are you going to tell me that the Chinese Soldier is going to be better equipped?

What would be a far better premise is Captain America with his top-of-the-line ballistic weapons, and the Chinese army with railguns. Except, Cap has plot armour, strongest of all. Marines don't.

Except, the average Chinese soldier doesn't have railguns (I assume). That's my point.

And it absolutely makes sense that one faction's baseline could beat another considering the sizes of their domain. The Imperium has a lot of resources, but has to divide them around the galaxy, yet the Tau can concentrate them for a smaller force, ending up with a better baseline.

This is precisely why Tau should be equipped in a way inferior to Space Marines. If you were making the argument about Imperial Guard, I would agree. But we're talking about what is already a relatively tiny, elite fighting force which is supposed to have the best equipment that the Imperium has to offer. We're talking about, what, roughly a million space marines? Compared to how many Imperial worlds?

As you seem to think that NOTHING should be able to beat your 14ppm demigods

In terms of base infantry? Perhaps necron infantry.

Other than that? No. Man on man, space marines should win pretty much every time in terms of statline, equipment, etc.

Literally the only reason why any base infantry should be able to beat tactical marines in absolutely any respect is because the tacticals are outnumbered. My marines should hit as hard as orks and should shoot as well as fire warriors.

And in fact, before my marine rips that ork's face open with his chainsword, that ork's buddies should have been filled with bolter rounds.

And after my space marine gets finished shooting that fire warrior in the face with his bolter ammunion, he should be decapitating that fire warrior's friends with well placed chainsword strikes.

Why?

Because I repeat:

THEY ARE GENETICALLY ALTERED, ELITE, SUPER SOLDIER DEMIGODS.

...

...

That said, there should be fewer chainswords and boltpistols than Ork close combat weapons and fewer boltguns than tau carbines.

consider this. In terms of game balance, Tau and Marines are costed about right. Space Marines have a lot of statline changes, and try to be good at everything. Tau, as befitting their philosophy, are essentially min-maxers.

1. Thus the reason that Tau are "broken" and aren't fun to play against. Armies of min-maxers aren't fun to play against. Players who min-max also aren't fun to play against.

2. In virtue of that very points efficiency/specialization, they are undercosted for what they do. Sternguard have to pay for the additional leadership point and for the extra attack that they probably won't use.

In fact, seriously consider this: why should a base tau infantryman be able to match my sternguard's kraken rounds in terms of strength and range and EXCEED them in terms of strength?

TLDR
Space Marine fanfiction spank.

Problems and solutions:

1) Tau will outgun literally anyone, and this frustrates some people. Fire warriors always beat guardsmen, eldar, and space marines without having cover even. Broadsides obliterate anything that moves before it even has a chance to shoot.

----add plenty of LoS blocking terrain, use city style tables

2) Tau are very static, and even if you're playing tactical objectives tau can still just chill out and shoot stuff and possibly win still if they have objectives near their deployment zone

----no objectives in deployment zone, put LoS blockers near certain objectives so you have to move forward to shoot the guy holding it. Even then, still be willing to move your models.

3) Riptides. If not prepared (casual list) they're hard to deal with, and have some JSJ shenanigans.

----If you think your opponent has a casual list leave it at home. Only use in games above 1000.

Overall just don't sit in corners, try to move stuff towards objectives, try to bring varied lists, make it that you have to move forward to at least the middle of the table to do stuff.

I never play static Tau anymore. Well I can if I feel like it but eh. I even like putting my SS up centerline and getting some stompy mayhem now and again on my opponents and watch as they die to them in melee. Heh.

 Gamgee wrote:
TLDR
Space Marine fanfiction spank.

scrooge you guys. I agree with Gamgee, you are using background fluff to make justifications for the tabletop game.

OTOH, I already play enclaves. (and should keep such criticisms in mind that you folks aren't down on all tau players, but gunlines, which IG can do better)

Traditio wrote:
1. They are essentially rocket propelled grenade launchers. Why do you think it's a stupid idea for space marines, when, in fact, dire avengers get bladestorm, necrons get gauss and Tau get S5, 30 inch range rapid fire weapons FOR THEIR BASE TROOPS?.

what base troops are these? I take crisis for troops, please oh please tell me what gun this is for my suits? \sarcasm

Traditio wrote:
In a universe that's playing by WWI and WWII rules, the tau are playing by the rules of modern warfare.

an excellent point, and one that us Tau players should keep in mind when these particular discussions roll around.
and one that should be kept in mind - modern battle is more skirmish than line, as our weapons are too lethal for line to have a chance. But when one meets the other, line beats skirmish much of the time. Watch 'The Patriot' (a horrid movie by all accounts) for what happens when a skirmish army tries to match a line army in battle.

run cc tau

 SRSFACE wrote:
I think, for me, all they need to do is scale back how powerful Markerlights are.

If they simply made it so markerlights gave enemy units a -1 cover penalty per markerlight burnt, rather than 2 simply remove all cover, I would be okay with that.

The problem with this is that mathematically application of a -1 cover penalty is quite often identical to a +1 BS until you hit BS6. Depending on armor save of target and AP value of weapon, but it approximately holds true.

kambien wrote:
Martel is also in the gakky situation where his group ( which has a multiple tau ) refuse to have LOS blocking terrain at all.

We have it, but there's not very much. And it helps Eldar and Tau more than it helps more than me anyway because of JSJ.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
And no, I have never played anything before 6th and know no one else who did. Tau have always been OP and are still OP, alongside Eldar. Meanwhile, Orks and CSM have always been next to useless.

So you start off basically by admitting you have no idea what you're talking about, since your experience playing 40k has been very short and limited, and then boldly make bullgak claims about editions you admittedly weren't around for as if they were indisputable fact?

You'd make a good politician.

As a Tau player who refuses to use Stormsurges in the local meta, I know the feeling of worrying about playing against Tau. Sunday at a tournament, I looked at all the lists, from Eldar to Necrons and feared not a one, With the exception of the other Tau player. In 1850 he brought a small CAD with 2 SSs and a Riptide wing. He had interceptor on everyting, and I was running a beta strike dawn blade with retaliation cadre as my core.

I worried about being tabled turn 1 before I could DS in. I worried about being tabled when I did DS in. When I did arrive, SMS neutered me since I tried to DS out of LOS.

By turn 3 I was just chucking dice out there when he said roll.

On the other hand, I played 2 games previously, which I won, but was by no means a landslide, and came down to 1 or 2 points and my opponents as well as myself were pulling up models from the board in an almost even match up, except the other Tau player that is.

The point is, I played a heavy cheesy suit list, with farsight, killling everything they came in contact with, and the 2 previous games were still fun and competitive. Don't blame Tau if you can't win. My list was not an all comer list, and I paid for it dearly, but I don't blame Tau,

I have been grav gunned to death turn 1 by Space Marines, lost 2 riptides that way, I have been out numbered by Necrons, and had units eaten by scarabs. The shrimp with the tentacles, hate them.

Eldar literally are the bane of my existance. even one WK takes 1 or 2 turns of concentrated fire power giving my opponent freedom of movement.

I have been run over by IG tank lines, even when running OSC.

I have watched as I ran away in fear of being tabled while Admech Skitaari in drop pods ruined my hopes and dreams.

Do not blame Tau. Blame your play style, Your desire to compete, or your inability to adapt.

Final note. The player who spanked me so hard, got spanked hard himself by Eldar WKs and Seer councils. So having watched a 1500 point Eldar list dominate the local meta uncontested, Hate Eldar. No one likes Space Elves.

It's also very unrealistic to ALWAYS be fighting Tau in a city. You know what the dumbest part is? In starcraft, Zerg want open areas so they can get a surround, and the shooty Terrans want lots of terrain to create chokepoints to massacre others. Tyranids really need a muta/ling style build. Hormagaunts should be rewritten to get about a 24" move, and Nids could a 60 pt ish pt spammable flyer. Would be fun. You could throw in some AP3 banelings, too.

As a Guard player I have many problems with Tau but they can all be summed up with: Tau do everything my faction does but they do it better.
-Gunlines? Tau win
-Mobile strike teams? Tau win
-Big support units? Tau win
-Super Heavies/Gargantuan Creatures? Tau win
-Ignores cover? Tau win

You can see that this does get a bit tiring to face after a while.