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Hi everyone.

So, lately, my friend and Necron player has been adamantly proclaiming his army's weakness "due to its codex." He genuinely seems to believe his Necrons have several serious problems:

1) they cannot effectively play at less than 2000 points, because you can't take a decurion + reclamation legion (and therefore cannot get 4+ RP, and re rerolls to hit, etc.). last night he was complaining about his 5+ RP every time he had to take it, saying "see, I'm rolling a 4. This would have saved..."
2) Apparently, Necrons "suck in close combat." Because they "can't do any damage, and you don't win combat if you don't kill things."
3) Necron weapons are "too short range to be at all effective."


I'm convinced all of this is in his head, and that he fundamentally misunderstands the strengths (and utility) of his own army. I want to prove it to him.

1) Formations are not a requirement. Sure, they add tons of bonuses, but armies are designed to function at the normal CAD level too, and his is no different. You already have a free invulnerable save that you can always take, EVEN AGAINST INSTANT DEATH, that saves 1/3 of the time - but that's not good enough, and you need it to be 50%? Bullox - His units are the most survivable in the game (perhaps next to Plague bearers?).

2) Considering that I lost three of the five combats I was in with him last night (I play Orks), after 3 rounds of combat, I don't understand why he thinks the Necrons suck in combat. They don't dish out a TON of damage, that's true, but they handedly win the attrition game. Since his stuff doesn't die, he can survive the charge and then whittle everyone down. I don't think he realized that his units actually survived an Ork charge without crumbling - and that in all subsequent rounds even his necron warriors were better than my orks. I fail to understand why he thinks WS4 S4 with 3+ armour and 5+ RP is NOT a combat force....

3) the short range should be a major hint/clue as to what his army's supposed to be doing, I think. He tries to play his necrons as a shooty army, sitting back and barraging or pillboxing everything that moves. He deploys in a box (bubblewrapping his monoliths in warriors and immortals), every single time, and barely moves except to get in firing range. But the fact that his weapons are 18"-24" range should be an obvious clue to him that his army is not SUPPOSED to be a "sit back and shoot everything" army. He's *supposed* to be getting closer to the enemy, to use rapid fire gause (!) weapons, and get stuck in.

So I want to challenge him using his Necrons (I want to give him my Orks, which he "can't beat" (despite winning last night in a Kill Points game), and prove that his army is in fact not only capable, but in fact *designed* to do the very thing he says it can't do. But outside of reading their 'dex, I don't know much about playing the army itself - are my suspicions warranted, or am I off my rocker?

Wow, I literally can't even.

1. You can easily field a Decurion in 2000 points. I've done it at 750.

2. Necrons have 4 CC units, some with multiple variants. They are all good. Necrons also have basic infantry that are tough as nails, can disembark from their Ghost Arks, double tap, and then charge.

3. Necrons are 24", but that doesn't matter half the time. They can survive long enough to make it to the enemy, and they have some of the best Flyers in the game.


This guy seriously just sounds like he doesn't know the full potential of, well, anything in the Necron codex, and is looking for reasons to complain.

1. You can build a Decurion as low as 750pts. (reclamation + Canoptek Harvest). And starting at 1250 you can do the Reclamation and Destroyer Cult as the Decurion.

2. It is true that most normal troops do not put out that much damage, as you mentioned, they can weather the storm. But if the units are too small in size, they will fail leadership and will get sweeping advanced. But we have some good units that are made to charge into battle, I2 seems bad, but again, we survive till then.

3. Yes, things are short ranged, we can be a little slow movement wise unless taking Tomb Blades and Ghost arks.

Not sure why he feels the need to bubble wrap an AV14 all around vehicle unless you are taking a heavy melta Drop pod/Deepstrike army against him. He also might consider dropping the Monoliths all together as they are alot of points that really do not do that good over all. Or use them as Deepstrikers that pop up behind your lines and hope to survive to gate in his foot troops.

I also suggest trying out the Maelstrom missions. They make you think about the game in a different light, causing you to build different armies as you need more than just move/shoot/grab objective in last rounds.

Sword-and-board Lychguard with Orikan/Zahndrek
Wraiths (+/- Destroyer Lord)
Flayed Ones

are all brutal assault units.

You can take an Orikanstar, Decurion (reclamation legion) and Canoptek harvest in 1850.

Your opponent is talking sloblocks.

Edit: it sounds as if he's still in beginner mode i.e. 'kill all the things!' and doesn't understand how mobility wins games (especially in maelstrom, where tomb blades, wraiths, ghost arks, scythes etc. are great).

Yes, damage output for necrons is (relatively) low. Except a GA full of warriors. That puts out a redunkulous number of shots.

You can do a decurion at 544 points with 5 flayed ones as the auxillary.

Maybe he is set in an old edition set which was sit back and blast.

All the CC units are excellent. A combination of sword lychguard and scythe lychguard will reliably kill pretty much anything other than dedicated screamer stars etc. Wraiths can get across the feild and hold up units as they like. Praetorians will pulp MEQs / TEQs all day long. Combined with a tooled up overlord, CC units are insane.

In terms of firing only Tau can get anywhere near basic shooting. The guass flayer on a necron warrior is awesome.

No other army gets unlimited 4+ FNP for free. FOR FREE.

Your friend needs to go back to basics. A 1k rec legion +1 aux formation or unit. Crack on.

Draco765 wrote:1. You can build a Decurion as low as 750pts. (reclamation + Canoptek Harvest). And starting at 1250 you can do the Reclamation and Destroyer Cult as the Decurion.

I2 seems bad, but again, we survive till then.

3. Yes, things are short ranged, we can be a little slow movement wise unless taking Tomb Blades and Ghost arks.

Not sure why he feels the need to bubble wrap an AV14 all around vehicle unless you are taking a heavy melta Drop pod/Deepstrike army against him. He also might consider dropping the Monoliths all together as they are alot of points that really do not do that good over all. Or use them as Deepstrikers that pop up behind your lines and hope to survive to gate in his foot troops.

I also suggest trying out the Maelstrom missions. They make you think about the game in a different light, causing you to build different armies as you need more than just move/shoot/grab objective in last rounds.

I2 does feel bad (and I play Orks, so I should know!) But at least you've got that survivability to get to strike back (my boyz tend to rely on numbers). He has a single unit of blades, and one ghost ark, but never uses it (or built it with the huge cannon. He likes his guns, not maneuverability). He bubblewraps because our other friend tends to drop pod terminators or meltas, and because he feels it's the only way to protect against my (inevtiable) charge from my PK warboss and nobz, which, is a fair point. We do play Maelstrom missions, generally - last night we rolled for a mission and got killpoints, is all. But when it's maelstrom, I tend to win (because I maneuver!). I'm trying to show him his potential here, mostly.

krodarklorr wrote:Wow, I literally can't even.

1. You can easily field a Decurion in 2000 points. I've done it at 750.

2. Necrons have 4 CC units, some with multiple variants. They are all good. Necrons also have basic infantry that are tough as nails, can disembark from their Ghost Arks, double tap, and then charge.

3. Necrons are 24", but that doesn't matter half the time. They can survive long enough to make it to the enemy, and they have some of the best Flyers in the game.


This guy seriously just sounds like he doesn't know the full potential of, well, anything in the Necron codex, and is looking for reasons to complain.

yeah, we were playing 1500 pts last night, and I think that's what he was upset by, but again, you can still manage to fit it in at that level (and shouldn't need to anyway, a 5+ RP is still pretty awesome, and more than any other basic infantry has!). He doens't like flyers, but I keep telling him he should be taking night scythes.

zerosignal wrote:Sword-and-board Lychguard with Orikan/Zahndrek
Wraiths (+/- Destroyer Lord)
Flayed Ones

are all brutal assault units.

You can take an Orikanstar, Decurion (reclamation legion) and Canoptek harvest in 1850.

Your opponent is talking sloblocks.

Edit: it sounds as if he's still in beginner mode i.e. 'kill all the things!' and doesn't understand how mobility wins games (especially in maelstrom, where tomb blades, wraiths, ghost arks, scythes etc. are great).

Yes, damage output for necrons is (relatively) low. Except a GA full of warriors. That puts out a redunkulous number of shots.

how many shots does a GA w/Warriors get?

I'm also flabbergasted that he only ever takes units of 10 warriors: the minimum he must take. Maybe he assumes warriors suck? But..um...20 models, 3+ armour, with marine stat lines and a 5+ invul, with rapid fire gause weapons? Yes, please?

 General_K wrote:

how many shots does a GA w/Warriors get?

I'm also flabbergasted that he only ever takes units of 10 warriors: the minimum he must take. Maybe he assumes warriors suck? But..um...20 models, 3+ armour, with marine stat lines and a 5+ invul, with rapid fire gause weapons? Yes, please?

The Ghost ark can put out 10 shots at 24" and one target, and possible 10 more at a separate target if you can line up the barge right. Then 10 shots from the guys inside, 20 if you're within rapid-fire range.

Also, Necron warriors only have a 4+ armor, not a 3+. However, they're also a point cheaper than a Tac marine, so there that.

A GA can put out 20 shots from the warriors inside then 10 shots from either side at different units. As long as they are in rapid fire range, also warriors only have a 4+ save.

ah, okay. the 3+ AS was my assumption, not something he said. My bad.

So, okay. It sounds like this is very doable, and It's good to be vindicated in my belief that he's underselling his army quite drastically. When I started looking at this, I figured I'd go with a Decurion + Reclamation + Canoptek Harvest. What i'd want to do is take big units of warriors, take a unit of Lyrchguard + Lord inside a Night Scythe (but maybe Praetorians would be better? he doesn't have the models, but I could proxy since this is about showing ihm his own army's capabilities)...I'd stuff warriors inside his GA, use the Monolith to bring in reserves right on top of objectives, use blades to claim objectives...wraiths and flayed ones as support units in combat (use warriors to soak up overwatch/charges, charge in with wraiths and flayed ones)....okay. I think I can do this. Now, to think about army selection.

Necrons are a great army, their biggest glaring weakness is their I2, if you get beaten in combat you are going to get run down 9/10 of the time. Especially to a decent assault army.

oz of the north wrote:
Necrons are a great army, their biggest glaring weakness is their I2, if you get beaten in combat you are going to get run down 9/10 of the time. Especially to a decent assault army.

well, there he's fortunate, as he only plays myself and one other friend, and I've also got I2 - so we're evenly matched in terms of running each other down.

oh you can definitely get the 4+ reanimation in 2k games. You can also definitely do melee.

Two of my friends run necrons and it severely pisses me off when i run orks and a singular warrior unit manages to stall 3-6 PKs for multiple turns, allowing his superior shooting to take out everything thats not on a bike/in mega armor with ease.
Its even a problem for my Tau because he rarely gets worse than a 4+ save, either because i couldnt ignore cover or i didnt splat but i pen'd armor and cover.
Hate that damn rule with a passion. ID should remove it, not slightly reduce it, since the entire f'ing army has it and it doesnt go away at some point.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
oh you can definitely get the 4+ reanimation in 2k games. You can also definitely do melee.

Two of my friends run necrons and it severely pisses me off when i run orks and a singular warrior unit manages to stall 3-6 PKs for multiple turns, allowing his superior shooting to take out everything thats not on a bike/in mega armor with ease.
Its even a problem for my Tau because he rarely gets worse than a 4+ save, either because i couldnt ignore cover or i didnt splat but i pen'd armor and cover.
Hate that damn rule with a passion. ID should remove it, not slightly reduce it, since the entire f'ing army has it and it doesnt go away at some point.

Then let me Ignore your 'Ere We Go, or Supporting Fire.

I'd just go back to the 5th ed codex rules for it.

pm713 wrote:
I'd just go back to the 5th ed codex rules for it.

Ah yes, the good ole days in which my army didn't have any special rules.

Because, you know, RP would be ignored most of the time.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
oh you can definitely get the 4+ reanimation in 2k games. You can also definitely do melee.

Two of my friends run necrons and it severely pisses me off when i run orks and a singular warrior unit manages to stall 3-6 PKs for multiple turns, allowing his superior shooting to take out everything thats not on a bike/in mega armor with ease.
Its even a problem for my Tau because he rarely gets worse than a 4+ save, either because i couldnt ignore cover or i didnt splat but i pen'd armor and cover.
Hate that damn rule with a passion. ID should remove it, not slightly reduce it, since the entire f'ing army has it and it doesnt go away at some point.

Then let me Ignore your 'Ere We Go, or Supporting Fire.

Neither are nowhere near as powerful as a 4+ doublelayer save that cannot be ignored without a D weapon. Army-wide on top of it.
'Ere we go is such a tiny rule its comical. Literally only does something once maaaaybe twice the entire game. And supporting fire is overshadowed by the fact that everything in the tau dex except ghostkeels are abysmal in melee. if you get past it, i lost 9/10 of the time. even as necrons (which basically ignore it anyway thanks to reanimation)

Dont get me wrong, old RP was dumb because it was bypassed easily. It needed a tweak. Making it an army-wide 4+ and work against ID was bs. Im fine with something centered around your warlord being a 4+, the entire flippin army should not have a 4+

 Vineheart01 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
oh you can definitely get the 4+ reanimation in 2k games. You can also definitely do melee.

Two of my friends run necrons and it severely pisses me off when i run orks and a singular warrior unit manages to stall 3-6 PKs for multiple turns, allowing his superior shooting to take out everything thats not on a bike/in mega armor with ease.
Its even a problem for my Tau because he rarely gets worse than a 4+ save, either because i couldnt ignore cover or i didnt splat but i pen'd armor and cover.
Hate that damn rule with a passion. ID should remove it, not slightly reduce it, since the entire f'ing army has it and it doesnt go away at some point.

Then let me Ignore your 'Ere We Go, or Supporting Fire.

Neither are nowhere near as powerful as a 4+ doublelayer save that cannot be ignored without a D weapon. Army-wide on top of it.
'Ere we go is such a tiny rule its comical. Literally only does something once maaaaybe twice the entire game. And supporting fire is overshadowed by the fact that everything in the tau dex except ghostkeels are abysmal in melee. if you get past it, i lost 9/10 of the time. even as necrons (which basically ignore it anyway thanks to reanimation)

Dont get me wrong, old RP was dumb because it was bypassed easily. It needed a tweak. Making it an army-wide 4+ and work against ID was bs. Im fine with something centered around your warlord being a 4+, the entire flippin army should not have a 4+

*shrug* Theoretically you could still have most of your army have a 4+ without the Decurion. Plus, old FNP was a 4+ anyway.

Even as a Necron player, I fully agree that the universal 4+ is pretty bad. I think it could be easy to balance though. Decurion now requires a Cryptek/Orikan/Szeras, but their +1 RP now extends to all units within 18" or the model.

old FNP wasnt army-wide and it was still denied by ID.
Its a reliable save that applies to the entire army that cannot be bypassed. That is my only gripe about it. Again, if it was a bubble or a single unit or ID prevented its use, i wouldnt complain one bit that its a 4+.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
old FNP wasnt army-wide and it was still denied by ID.
Its a reliable save that applies to the entire army that cannot be bypassed. That is my only gripe about it. Again, if it was a bubble or a single unit or ID prevented its use, i wouldnt complain one bit that its a 4+.

But the thing is, that's really all people complain about as far as Necrons are concerned. That don't have anything super game breaking that they have going for them. And even then, the 4+ isn't that bad in a casual list.

 General_K wrote:
What i'd want to do is take big units of warriors,

Big units of Warriors is a good way to lose a whole bunch of Warriors at once. Something will fight them in Assault (probably something they even vastly outnumber), they lose, then get run down.

You do not want big units in Necrons.

Yeah, personally, I'm not *that* miffed about the 4+ RP save - mostly my frustration stemmed from my friend believing that his army "sucks" if he can't fit the requirements for the decurion and reclamation legion and "is forced" to "only" save on a 5+ - for me, the issue here is the complaint that an army wide 5+ invul you can always take no matter what isn't "good enough." Also, my point is just to get a sense of what Necron players on here have to say about their army in terms of how effective they think it is at close quarters - or whether they, too, feel the army lacks any reliable close combat capabilities, etc. Based on this discussion (so many replies in one day!), I'm convinced that I'm right to be critical of his lake-woe-be-gone attitude.

Orks are one of the weaker armies right now. If he can't beat them, then he's doing something wrong.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 General_K wrote:
ah, okay. the 3+ AS was my assumption, not something he said. My bad.

The oldcron warriors had 3+ AS.
Since 5th ed they are 4+ now.

 General_K wrote:
Yeah, personally, I'm not *that* miffed about the 4+ RP save - mostly my frustration stemmed from my friend believing that his army "sucks" if he can't fit the requirements for the decurion and reclamation legion and "is forced" to "only" save on a 5+ - for me, the issue here is the complaint that an army wide 5+ invul you can always take no matter what isn't "good enough." Also, my point is just to get a sense of what Necron players on here have to say about their army in terms of how effective they think it is at close quarters - or whether they, too, feel the army lacks any reliable close combat capabilities, etc. Based on this discussion (so many replies in one day!), I'm convinced that I'm right to be critical of his lake-woe-be-gone attitude.

Pfft, your friend would have loved 3rd ed. Its a 4+, but only at the end of the turn instead of end of phase, and it could be negated pretty easily.
And that's not even mentioning the Phase Out rule.
As someone who played necrons for a while, they are pretty strong, much stronger than before.

Unfortunately, the lore isn't great, and some of the models are kind of derpy.

Anyway, in Close Quarters necrons are decent imo. Not amazing, but decent.
Before they were pretty crap, but now they have some decent CC specialists. Their low ini still hurts them, but if they live and hit their target they can hurt like hell due to the S5-S7 and low AP melee. Keep in mind that their weapons are mid - short range, so they are pretty much a close range army to begin with; you want to shoot the enemy to death first, and finish em off with your specialists.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 General_K wrote:
What i'd want to do is take big units of warriors,

Big units of Warriors is a good way to lose a whole bunch of Warriors at once. Something will fight them in Assault (probably something they even vastly outnumber), they lose, then get run down.

You do not want big units in Necrons.

Silver legion of death tho :(




Automatically Appended Next Post:

oz of the north wrote:
Necrons are a great army, their biggest glaring weakness is their I2, if you get beaten in combat you are going to get run down 9/10 of the time. Especially to a decent assault army.

That and they have short ranged weapons, are fairly slow, no real Anti-tank / MC options (unless you count praying for 4 6s as reliable) and few ranged low AP weapons.
The ini 2 is the more exploitable flaw, granted.

Even the lowest Necron is perfectly okay in melee. You won't believe how many times I've charged with Warriors, Immortals, AND Deathmarks. Relentless and MTC is pretty fan-frickin-tastic. The 4+++ on top is just icing on the cake.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Even the lowest Necron is perfectly okay in melee. You won't believe how many times I've charged with Warriors, Immortals, AND Deathmarks. Relentless and MTC is pretty fan-frickin-tastic. The 4+++ on top is just icing on the cake.

Yeh, charging them in after shooty is nasty with a large squad of warriors. You basically have 4 batches of S4 attacks.