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2016/03/22 22:42:38
Subject: [1850] - Space Wolves - ITC Option Need help!!
I have a couple of ways to field the New Wolves. I just can't seam to pick one so I am asking for
some thoughts on 3 list I am thinking of running. Comments on these are wanted. Preface I don't
normally play Imperial armies. I am a Tyranid player. With that in mind my ideas may not be good in a competitive field. Please let me know. I was thinking about the Great Wolf Detachment instead of CAD. For a pure offense list it maybe the better choice..
This list tries to use the double movement idea. With 3 fast units.
+++ (1844pts) +++
++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Formation Detachment) ++
List 2 tries to work on the speed idea as well. It uses a death Pack formation to get the best range for it's buck. With run and charge I feel it gets the best use of the double movement and the +3 inches of movement. With a 66% chance of getting some type of extra movement.
+++ New Roster (1847pts) +++
++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++
Wulfen Murderpack
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
··Wulfen
····Wulfen [Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield]
····Wulfen [Great Frost Axe, Stormfrag Auto-Launcher]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
····Wulfen [Close Combat Weapon]
I
The last list goes for a more balanced approach with luck sometimes playing a role. If it happens, great if not will it wasn't needed. The drop pod is to get that one maelstrom point of being in the other guys deployment. It can take the lone wolf or the wolfin depending on the mission.
With both types of priest I get a fearless turn two attacking unit with a chance at powers that can help the advance unit. Been leaning toward Biomancey as a take all comer's power that helps this army type. thoughts on powers as I am not using to BRB powers.
+++ New Roster (1850pts) +++
++ Space Wolves: Codex (2014) (Formation Detachment) ++
One question if I join IC to the Death-pack thunderwolves. Can they still run and charge?
The lord of the formation gives the unit the means to run and charge every turn. the unit doesn't
the rule to do so natively.
Just checking, as I don't want to cheat someone.
2016/03/22 23:07:02
Subject: [1850] - Space Wolves - ITC Option Need help!!
Not a very good post. Seems like a mental dump rather than a premise. So I'll ignore it.
Personally my gut says (with this new.dex) to try to take wulfen based army with 2 thunderhammers per squad w/ sheilds throughout.
PLUS 2 squads of thunder hammer storm sheild terminators.
This seems stupid but it is not. This is why.
You teleport the terminators in front of their gun line. They will take at least one turn to die. Probably 2. Those are the turns where the wulfen close in.
As a side note: I know you are cutting and pasting but it is bogus. Your time is less important to me than mine. Just ask the question you want and don't drop a shed of redundant gibberish in leiu of forming real questions.
2016/03/23 14:12:36
Subject: [1850] - Space Wolves - ITC Option Need help!!
ConanMan wrote: Not a very good post. Seems like a mental dump rather than a premise. So I'll ignore it.
Personally my gut says (with this new.dex) to try to take wulfen based army with 2 thunderhammers per squad w/ sheilds throughout.
PLUS 2 squads of thunder hammer storm sheild terminators.
This seems stupid but it is not. This is why.
You teleport the terminators in front of their gun line. They will take at least one turn to die. Probably 2. Those are the turns where the wulfen close in.
As a side note: I know you are cutting and pasting but it is bogus. Your time is less important to me than mine. Just ask the question you want and don't drop a shed of redundant gibberish in leiu of forming real questions.
It's a honest post. and not cut and paste. So if you don't like and are going to ignore it don't post.
As to the rest of your post. Why take thunder hammer storm shield. when you can take thunderwolf cav and charge turn one almost anywhere on the board??? your idea makes no use of the wolfin formation.
2016/03/23 16:37:32
Subject: [1850] - Space Wolves - ITC Option Need help!!
Okay. I'll do my best.
I don't appreciate when my posts are ignored, so will try to help you understand little nuances I've come to discover of playing the space wolves.
1) thunderwolf cavalry:
You'll want storm shields, but not on every one. Give them 30%, aka 1 out of every 3. Give them an iron priest or wolf lord or both on mount, have them with Cyberwolves and/or Fenrisian wolves to give them cheap wounds soaks - and Look Out Sir w/ 2+'s to distribute your wounds around potentially keeping everything alive but with oonewound a pop. Sending wounds to the puppies is good when it's S10 which instant deaths your TWC. Give them wolf claws or something to take advantage of their SM i4, which is a better power sword via shred, and let your characters be the ones with storm shields and have initiative 1 weapons whether it be axes or hammers, to chew up characters in challenges.some keep their wolves bland, relying on attacks and rend. Depends on your list. Going many, empty may be fine. Going a critical team-taskforce, tool them Up. The TWC are a unit to tool up.
Wulfen:
Go great axe on all, but do SS on 2 out of every 5. Hammers are handy in situations, and Storm Shields KEEP THEM ALIVE! i5 is no joke, take advantage of it - and you'll want to strike first so that what left theta trike back they'll then wound/wipe which triggers yet even more attacks... something i1 wont do for you.
Deployment is everything on these guys. Give them pods and put themforwards, but then you'll need to prioritize your opponents fire because they're the most juicy target on the table. Aka get something even worse in their face, something wholly unavoidable, and make them split their resources so both units potentially survive.
I only do 1 unit wulfen, and put variety in my list, but some go 2. Landraider or stormwolf is may be a good pick but makes them pts heavy. Having them pod turn 1 seems to work just fine.
You seem to want to spam small units of bloodclaws, okay, but do this only to cap objectives. They aren't what they used to be, and practically useless otherwise.
I run a Runepriest on bike (2 actually) out of the wyrdstorm brotherhood, and have them start in a scout squad to gain Scout move (12") using models, two can via ttheir bike bases stretch that out, I have iron priests too so cyberwolves do that for me to keep coherency, then move them into the wulfen turn 1 for a stronger unit to live (on(on a Lucius pod from forgeworld to give them turn 1 shroud, therefore a 2+ jink). Alternatively, Runepriest in bloodclaw units helps them be cheap, great in CC, but still have wounds to absorb fire. Only great, not wonderful.but cheap. Put the bloodclaws in Razorbacks, twinlinked plasma, and grey hunters in rhinos to take advantage of their firepower.
Go IronWolves for super cheap options.
Idk of you anticipate tac cards aka maelstrom, if you do consider having a good number of units to hold them, with still other units to charge into CC.
I have a list here I've been working on, maybe you'll find useful to glance at.
Going deathpack is nice, especially for a pod included list for those greyhunters.
Turn 1 CC is no joke, but remember this key point: that which is CC MUST REACH CC!
they're useless til they do. But - when in CC they have twice the number of phases per turn to wreak havoc.
If you want an ally w/ objective secured, I've been told Liberian with scouts goes very well, w/ camo.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'll answer any other questions, if ya like good to see more space wolves action xD
Automatically Appended Next Post: @pace wolveswolves players who win, use iron priests and in CotGW you'll be able to spam them. Give the cyberwolves. Give them a librarian conclave from SM codex and hope for invisibility. Then, add them all to a thunderwolves unit with lord, and watch them chew up the table. Masssssss unit/star, push them into their own deployment edge deny them the hoard through your pressure, and multiassault all you can effectively reach - that is, and do damage to still.
Iron wolves is nice - for objectivrd camping and much needed shooting backfield, as you can tool up the vehicles for free.
CC avoids jink. Hits rear AV. Gives you twice the amount of combats as shooting. Allows you to deny shooting entirely and to bully down lesser units. Allows you additional movespeed via charge rolls. Puts S10 AP2 in everyone's hands whereas shooting only tanks typically have that stat for firepower. Lets you pull wounds on particular models if they're in base to base, instead of simply the closest model. aTSKNF is more important, denying then from using high initiative to wiping your units via fallback.
I could go on...
CC is where to be. However, you'll need to GET THERE!
AND, you'll want stuff on the table doing the objectives while you're chewing their faces up.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/03/23 17:05:19
2016/03/23 20:20:51
Subject: [1850] - Space Wolves - ITC Option Need help!!
Since your playing ITC, I'm assuming you are playing against some pretty competitive lists so my thoughts come from that mindset.
I like the lists you included there. When going with an assault based army, you can't halfass it so your lists are pretty unified which is good. Get as many assault focused units as possible. Who needs shooting or AA?
You cant really spam iron priests anymore unfortunately since they moved to HQ, but they are still worth it. I wouldn't take their new weapon upgrades though. A bunch of S10 attacks makes helfrost pretty redundant. Max out on cyberwolves if you take IPs. If you don't go with Iron Priests, you can go full cheese and use servitors for the elite requirements to free up points though that is definitely a cheap move...
For the TWC loadout, take shields on EVERYONE! You already got that covered
Competitive thunderwolves work best as a big deathstar in my experience. The Super friends lists running around are fairly successful for a reason. You want to pack a bunch of Battle Leaders or Iron Priests in there, so company of the great wolf is still best. The unit really wants hit and run though, so allied White Scars biker or Ravenwing characters are good additions. I personally am a fan of taking a WS Libby Conclave on bikes for this, plus they are awesome deathstar buffers and give the unit skilled rider at that.
I like the deathpack quite a bit as well, but still am leaning towards CotGW if you have the murderpack supporting. You're getting a 2/3 chance at one of their movement buffs with 3 units anyway, so still a pretty good chance at a T1 charge but with a lot more flexibility in what you can take in the TWC unit (hard hitting characters!)
Just looked above and saw a lot of the points in my post made already, but hey it works!
2016/03/25 00:44:35
Subject: Re:[1850] - Space Wolves - ITC Option Need help!!
MekLeN wrote:Okay. I'll do my best.
I don't appreciate when my posts are ignored, so will try to help you understand little nuances I've come to discover of playing the space wolves.
1) thunderwolf cavalry:
You'll want storm shields, but not on every one. Give them 30%, aka 1 out of every 3. Give them an iron priest or wolf lord or both on mount, have them with Cyberwolves and/or Fenrisian wolves to give them cheap wounds soaks - and Look Out Sir w/ 2+'s to distribute your wounds around potentially keeping everything alive but with oonewound a pop. Sending wounds to the puppies is good when it's S10 which instant deaths your TWC. Give them wolf claws or something to take advantage of their SM i4, which is a better power sword via shred, and let your characters be the ones with storm shields and have initiative 1 weapons whether it be axes or hammers, to chew up characters in challenges.some keep their wolves bland, relying on attacks and rend. Depends on your list. Going many, empty may be fine. Going a critical team-taskforce, tool them Up. The TWC are a unit to tool up.
Wulfen:
Go great axe on all, but do SS on 2 out of every 5. Hammers are handy in situations, and Storm Shields KEEP THEM ALIVE! i5 is no joke, take advantage of it - and you'll want to strike first so that what left theta trike back they'll then wound/wipe which triggers yet even more attacks... something i1 wont do for you.
Deployment is everything on these guys. Give them pods and put themforwards, but then you'll need to prioritize your opponents fire because they're the most juicy target on the table. Aka get something even worse in their face, something wholly unavoidable, and make them split their resources so both units potentially survive.
I only do 1 unit wulfen, and put variety in my list, but some go 2. Landraider or stormwolf is may be a good pick but makes them pts heavy. Having them pod turn 1 seems to work just fine.
You seem to want to spam small units of bloodclaws, okay, but do this only to cap objectives. They aren't what they used to be, and practically useless otherwise.
I run a Runepriest on bike (2 actually) out of the wyrdstorm brotherhood, and have them start in a scout squad to gain Scout move (12") using models, two can via ttheir bike bases stretch that out, I have iron priests too so cyberwolves do that for me to keep coherency, then move them into the wulfen turn 1 for a stronger unit to live (on(on a Lucius pod from forgeworld to give them turn 1 shroud, therefore a 2+ jink). Alternatively, Runepriest in bloodclaw units helps them be cheap, great in CC, but still have wounds to absorb fire. Only great, not wonderful.but cheap. Put the bloodclaws in Razorbacks, twinlinked plasma, and grey hunters in rhinos to take advantage of their firepower.
Go IronWolves for super cheap options.
Idk of you anticipate tac cards aka maelstrom, if you do consider having a good number of units to hold them, with still other units to charge into CC.
I have a list here I've been working on, maybe you'll find useful to glance at.
Going deathpack is nice, especially for a pod included list for those greyhunters.
Turn 1 CC is no joke, but remember this key point: that which is CC MUST REACH CC!
they're useless til they do. But - when in CC they have twice the number of phases per turn to wreak havoc.
If you want an ally w/ objective secured, I've been told Liberian with scouts goes very well, w/ camo.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'll answer any other questions, if ya like good to see more space wolves action xD
Automatically Appended Next Post: @pace wolveswolves players who win, use iron priests and in CotGW you'll be able to spam them. Give the cyberwolves. Give them a librarian conclave from SM codex and hope for invisibility. Then, add them all to a thunderwolves unit with lord, and watch them chew up the table. Masssssss unit/star, push them into their own deployment edge deny them the hoard through your pressure, and multiassault all you can effectively reach - that is, and do damage to still.
Iron wolves is nice - for objectivrd camping and much needed shooting backfield, as you can tool up the vehicles for free.
CC avoids jink. Hits rear AV. Gives you twice the amount of combats as shooting. Allows you to deny shooting entirely and to bully down lesser units. Allows you additional movespeed via charge rolls. Puts S10 AP2 in everyone's hands whereas shooting only tanks typically have that stat for firepower. Lets you pull wounds on particular models if they're in base to base, instead of simply the closest model. aTSKNF is more important, denying then from using high initiative to wiping your units via fallback.
I could go on...
CC is where to be. However, you'll need to GET THERE!
AND, you'll want stuff on the table doing the objectives while you're chewing their faces up.
The list I am looking for is going to hit fast and hard. Shooting is a after though really. I am going to try to stay just space wolves. I lose access to a few things. I was looking at taking a wolf priest for one fearless unit. Or two rune priest to play high risk with santic and get +1 to INV for the thunderwolf unit. For some reason a 2++ on them sounds really fun. Otherwise Biomance looks good. Is being fearless good for thunderwoles?? getting preferred enemy is nice though. It is hard to pick.
I don't understand the take only two storm shields on 2 unit of 6 thunderwolves. Your not protecting your investment. I face plasma suit tau here all the time. or grav DA battle company with full BS shooting in overwatch in my meta. having no invl. Just doesn't work. My tyranids just cry.
I like iron wolves but that is a different type of list. Which could work. It would be more balanced with loads of shooting and a strong combat center with a landraider full of terminators that with average rolling can get a turn on assault. But I digress.
Spoiler:
Svenghali wrote:Since your playing ITC, I'm assuming you are playing against some pretty competitive lists so my thoughts come from that mindset.
I like the lists you included there. When going with an assault based army, you can't halfass it so your lists are pretty unified which is good. Get as many assault focused units as possible. Who needs shooting or AA?
You cant really spam iron priests anymore unfortunately since they moved to HQ, but they are still worth it. I wouldn't take their new weapon upgrades though. A bunch of S10 attacks makes helfrost pretty redundant. Max out on cyberwolves if you take IPs. If you don't go with Iron Priests, you can go full cheese and use servitors for the elite requirements to free up points though that is definitely a cheap move...
For the TWC loadout, take shields on EVERYONE! You already got that covered
Competitive thunderwolves work best as a big deathstar in my experience. The Super friends lists running around are fairly successful for a reason. You want to pack a bunch of Battle Leaders or Iron Priests in there, so company of the great wolf is still best. The unit really wants hit and run though, so allied White Scars biker or Ravenwing characters are good additions. I personally am a fan of taking a WS Libby Conclave on bikes for this, plus they are awesome deathstar buffers and give the unit skilled rider at that.
I like the deathpack quite a bit as well, but still am leaning towards CotGW if you have the murderpack supporting. You're getting a 2/3 chance at one of their movement buffs with 3 units anyway, so still a pretty good chance at a T1 charge but with a lot more flexibility in what you can take in the TWC unit (hard hitting characters!)
Just looked above and saw a lot of the points in my post made already, but hey it works!
Having multi units seams to me to be a better idea than one massive unit I am thinking. You need good size main unit to have people focus on. Having two smaller units that can scatter and hit secondary target while your main unit is bogged down. Having hit and run solves the issues for a large main unit, but I don't want to ally in other codexs. One imperial space marine army is good for me. It is making my Tyranid Bug skin crawl as it is.
I have been looking at the SW librarian formation to get a large amount of shooting that can ignore cover while getting units that I can plug and play that have good leadership.
Only downside I can see is no access to Invisibility if I go that way. I know that is the go to power for deathstars. Personally I like Bio and santic as they can make unit insanely hard to kill with a 2++ or a 4+fnp.
If I am thinking wrong on this please point it out.
I think going for the command warlord traits are the best if you get +1 move making your opponent always use the lowest leadership with in twelve inches and rerolls in combat make them pretty solid pick over the codex pick
2016/03/26 01:48:02
Subject: [1850] - Space Wolves - ITC Option Need help!!
I have put a challenge lord in this list and to caster to give me options for a force multiplier. With santic or Biomance I should get the offensive or defensive buffs needto make the units hit hard or faster.
With the unit being in the the great wolf formation I will have some thunderwolves are ws 5 which will make that unit a lot more deadly.
I do worry that I have to many point in to the wolfen. What you think??
good to see more space wolves action xD