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Col. Dash wrote:
Out of curiosity, can you deepstrike Fire Dragons in a nondedicated raider?

Yes, it comes with DS automatically. As does every DE vehicle (aside Flyers, who don't particularly need it).

I'd assume you can, as I've seen people talking about different types of strategies that involve doing that. But I have never looked at the rule.

Col. Dash wrote:
Out of curiosity, can you deepstrike Fire Dragons in a nondedicated raider?

Yes, and this is a very powerful tactic if you need one unit to be absolutely dead. The only problem is that you need to invest s significant amount of points into a unit that will not survive the turn that it enters the battlefield. You will wipe one unit, and be deleted shortly thereafter.

Dark Eldar have two main inherent weaknesses:

1. Dark Lances are not good anti-tank weapons. You can take lots of them, and you should, but you need to diversify your approach. Use Blasters to pad your count, and make use of Haywire guns/grenades wherever you can. Having a good source of melee anti-vehicle is good too; the aforementioned Reavers are great at this with Caltrops, but Grotesques, Pain Engines, and even Beast Packs can be a threat against some through Smash/Rending/sheer weight of dice.

2. Dark Eldar are very cover-reliant. There is a lot of Ignores Cover out there in the competitive landscape. Tau are by far the biggest offender, with IG leaf blowers notable as well. Fortunately, Dark Eldar have a lot of MSU potential with cheap transports that can Deep Strike. Overwhelm your opponent with threats so they cannot wipe out everything with Ignores Cover, and hide out of range/LOS when you can. If a unit is not in a transport, you will need to keep it cheap enough to where you can afford to lose it. Reavers and Beast Packs are especially vulnerable, and are often best held in reserve until they are needed. Coven units are much tougher, and can stand to be out of transports more than other units. In any case, a 5++ save is always better than nothing.

The fact of the matter is that Dark Eldar do not do well alone in a competitive landscape. They work best when they have allies to cover up their weaknesses. This does not mean that Dark Eldar have no competitive potential, or that majority-DE armies are bad. It just means that if you have a very competitive meta or will be attending a tournament, you will want to consider exactly what kind of Eldar Craftworlds/Corsairs/Harlequins allies you want backing up your main force.

I really recommend Corpse Thief Claw formation. Its a huge points and monetary investment, but Dark Eldar are seriously lacking in durability and these boys are the answer to that. They will draw stupid amounts of fire, grav will ruin their day, but if you play em right they will be an MVP. Many times they have drawn enough fire to allow the rest of my DE to surgically take out the most dangerous of my opponents units. They will curbstomp anyone in close combat, send them toward a central objective and watch them deny

Use the range of Splinter Cannons and Dark Lances to your advantage, especially against shooting armies, staying at extreme range, and force their units (with a shorter range) to leave the safety of cover to effectively engage your units.

Deep strike the Blasterborn in a raider if you if you're against Imperial Knights. That strategy has been covered before, otherwise I usually drop em danger close in a Venom and try to nuke a particular unit.

Against armies that ignore cover, like Tau, KILL THE MARKERLIGHTS FIRST. Markerlights are the bane of my DE, I can't stress this enough.

Alpha strike armies are gonna ruin your day. They suck to play against. Spread out, put a juicy target unit at an extreme board and hope they take the bait, and pray for a 6 on the Seize.

Not gonna lie, DE have a steep learning curve, but its super satisfying. And beware falling down the rabbit hole of comparing DE to Craftworlds, you'll find that Eldar do just about everything better.

Hope this helps a bit, good luck!

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I'm not too sure what Corpse Thief Claw formation is so I'll look into that. I haven't heard of taking blasterborn in a raider either (how many blasters can you get?). My question is, what will be more effective at killing a knight, the two units of haywire scourges or a raider of blasterborn? Another thing that concerns me with the lists I have been toying with is that I usually fail to bring dark lances or many of them. I don't particularly like ravagers all that much but I know they're the best way to get DL. Do you guys think I truly need a good amount of them or do you think haywire and blasters are going to be enough? As for army specific details, Tau are probably going to just be a plain old pain. It seems pretty clear from feedback that if I get the markerlights, I got a chance, if not then goodbye to any save I might of had.
As a side note though: I would be willing to partner a decent chunk of my army with Harlequins, but I'd rather stay away from regular old eldar. As many have pointed out, they're simply better at everything. This doesn't mean I would be against a farseer skyrunner here or there, but I would rather not have a chunk of the army be Craftworlds, otherwise I'd just end up feeling like the DE aren't pulling their own weight.

Thank you for all of the feedback guys, can't begin to thank you enough. All of this info has helped me out tremendously!

Quite frankly, no. For anti-tank you're either taking Ravagers, Blasterborn or Scourges, though in a pinch Reavers with Cluster Caltrops will serve (had a game where they went through 3 Dreadnauts in as many turns once). You could try a Razorwing for another pair of Dark Lances or a Voidraven for a couple of Void Lances but frankly you're far better off with a Ravager.

As for taking on a Knight, the correct answer is "all of them, preferrably from different sides so only the one unit has to worry about the Ion Shield, and hope there's nothing else that needs dealing with there and then".

The Corpsthief Claw is a formation of 5 Talos run in a single unit with Scout and scores extra VP's from wipping out infantry units, it's in the Haemonculus Covens supplement which is well worth getting.

I will say this, the DE are better than Craftworlds when it comes to close combat, Incubi are better than Striking Scorpians and Howling Banshees and Grotesques are probably better than all of them. Drazhar, Lelith and a Succubus can all be pretty powerful in close combat as well.

I'd argue that Incubi are worse than Scorpions and Banshees if only because of no Assault Grenades. Banshee's also have no Overwatch and Scorpions have a great cover save to protect them, as well as 4+ auto wounds at I10.

Grotesques are great though, no doubt.

That is true, I guess I'm just used to picking targets that aren't in cover for my Incubi. All things being equal though, a squad of Incubi will murder a squad of Scorpions thanks to higher weapon skill and AP2 swords and Banshees would be an even fight, depending on who got the charge. Exarchs are troublesome though given they have double strength weapons that negate FnP whils the Klaivex only has acces to Demiklaives as an upgrade, which are worse than useless. At least he'll have Rampage though.

How does a solo Talos do in a non-supplement army?

Ok so I got really bored and started reading some DE tactics and noticed a rather good option for them. The reavers can be equipped with heat lances so running a 6 man squad with 2 of them plus caltrops can allow a rather cheap tank hunting unit that can glance almost every tank in the game. With their main FOC giving you 6 fast attack slots you can field quite a bit anti tank/infantry for 146 per squad or 876 for 6x6 squad of them.

Though going all out with them isn't tactically sound it will be a nasty surprise the first time you shred your opponents landraider with a bunch of squishy bikes.

Also, play Maelstrom.

How do the 5 Talos get 4+ FNP?

StevetheDestroyeOfWorlds wrote:
How does a solo Talos do in a non-supplement army?

Usually not very well. They're slow and being as tough and strong as they are will be a bullet magnet for all the heavy firepower your opponent has.

cwalt wrote:
How do the 5 Talos get 4+ FNP?

By having a Cronos nearby.

Maelstrom vs DE is the only time my 30k army has lost vs any 40k army. DE excels at this game type. Note: not claiming to be a great player, my group is not a very competitive group and is far more beer and pretzels oriented, more beer, less pretzels.

I couldn't shoot enough of his transports and then the guys inside even with 30k Iron Warriors to prevent him from making lots of VP off maelstrom objectives. I only lost a couple vehicles(transports) and a good chunk of my terminator force and foot sloggers, but he played the objectives well and could be everywhere while I was limited. I don't think he even had that efficient of a force, but it just worked well for him.

Sure can, though I use a WWP archon for no scatter. Given that they can basically oneshot any vehicle in the game thanks to 4+ explodes, I find that to be worth it.

Spiritfox22 wrote:
Ok so I got really bored and started reading some DE tactics and noticed a rather good option for them. The reavers can be equipped with heat lances so running a 6 man squad with 2 of them plus caltrops can allow a rather cheap tank hunting unit that can glance almost every tank in the game. With their main FOC giving you 6 fast attack slots you can field quite a bit anti tank/infantry for 146 per squad or 876 for 6x6 squad of them.

Though going all out with them isn't tactically sound it will be a nasty surprise the first time you shred your opponents landraider with a bunch of squishy bikes.

You can save the points and skip the Heat Lances; with their S6 rending HoW, they can take out vehicles (except some Walkers) and infantry. Most of the time they'll be jinking for 3+ anyway.

 Homeskillet wrote:

Spiritfox22 wrote:
Ok so I got really bored and started reading some DE tactics and noticed a rather good option for them. The reavers can be equipped with heat lances so running a 6 man squad with 2 of them plus caltrops can allow a rather cheap tank hunting unit that can glance almost every tank in the game. With their main FOC giving you 6 fast attack slots you can field quite a bit anti tank/infantry for 146 per squad or 876 for 6x6 squad of them.

Though going all out with them isn't tactically sound it will be a nasty surprise the first time you shred your opponents landraider with a bunch of squishy bikes.

You can save the points and skip the Heat Lances; with their S6 rending HoW, they can take out vehicles (except some Walkers) and infantry. Most of the time they'll be jinking for 3+ anyway.

Fair enough though you can actually break every vehicle with an armor value. STR 6 plus a roll of 6 grants rending which is an extra D3 to armor pen vs Vehicles so a roll of 3+ grants you a glance on AV14.

Who's used Hellions? I know they are probably one of the worst units right, especially taking up fast attack slots, but I really love the models and want to use them. My plan is run a unit of at least 10, but possibly 20. I mean these guys can no longer benefit from the great Sathonyx, does that mean they are now completely useless?

I was planning on giving the helliarch an agonizer, but skipping out on the PGL.

Thing about Hellions is that I would rather want Reavers. A large blob might be worthwhile. But I wouldn't take the chance to test it out

Yes, Maelstrom > Eternal War for DE.

Spiritfox22 wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:

Spiritfox22 wrote:
Ok so I got really bored and started reading some DE tactics and noticed a rather good option for them. The reavers can be equipped with heat lances so running a 6 man squad with 2 of them plus caltrops can allow a rather cheap tank hunting unit that can glance almost every tank in the game. With their main FOC giving you 6 fast attack slots you can field quite a bit anti tank/infantry for 146 per squad or 876 for 6x6 squad of them.

Though going all out with them isn't tactically sound it will be a nasty surprise the first time you shred your opponents landraider with a bunch of squishy bikes.

You can save the points and skip the Heat Lances; with their S6 rending HoW, they can take out vehicles (except some Walkers) and infantry. Most of the time they'll be jinking for 3+ anyway.

Fair enough though you can actually break every vehicle with an armor value. STR 6 plus a roll of 6 grants rending which is an extra D3 to armor pen vs Vehicles so a roll of 3+ grants you a glance on AV14.

Actually it pens AV14 (6+6+3= 15).

I meant as in not rolling a one or two.

Spiritfox22 wrote:
I meant as in not rolling a one or two.

Sorry, complete brain fart moment on my part, your post was very clear on what it meant.

This is a very odd way to play DE, but I LOVE Coven.

This is my Army (I play at 2k, if I have to play low I just remove 1 body from each grots units)

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
X5 Talos: Twin-linked heat lance

Formation: Grotesquerie
x7 Grotesques
x3 Grotesques Raider
Haemi: WWP Crucible of malediction

Formation: Grotesquerie
x7 Grotesques
x3 Grotesques Raider
Haemi: WWP Crucible of malediction

DE Ally:
Lhamean
x5 Kabalite Warrior: Venom: SC
Cronos: Spirit Probe

Fortification
Aegis Defense Line: Comms Relay


Turn 1:
You basically Move the 2 Raiders (and flat out and Jink), Scout the Talos shot AT if you can or Run, Hide Venom/Lhamean on Comms for turn 2, Move the Cronos up too (keep him in range of Talos)

Turn 2:
You WWP the 2 Large units of Grots, thats 14 really hard to kill bodies, with 2 Haemis that will hurt Psykers (CoM's for 40pts lots might not like it, but against Eldar it has killed many Jetbike Warlocks and LOTS of Deamons I feel its worth it).
Run the Grots and use the CoM's (You can use them and Run b.c the rules say in the shooting phase and it is not a shooting attack).
Talos should be Charging or Shooting AT this turn, you really want a charge if you can.
If your 2 Raiders of Grots are still alive make sure to try and charge with them to tie up any units that you can.

Turn 3: Everything Charges and its GG unless they have Knights.

This style is weak against 2 things, Flying and Knights.

Ive faced IG with Monicores + Wyverns and still won, Ive won against Eldar (I was able to kill the Seer Concel Psyker unit do to the CoE and they fell back so I was able to charge them) Ive also won against SW's and other SM's.

The Corpsethief Claw basically won me the game many times, a Multi Charge into 2-3 Rhinos is GG, I play against alot of SM players with 7-10 Rhinos and IG with Lots of Tanks. so its easy to land 20+ Grots and make it hard for them to move past that large blob, giving the Corpsethief Claw time to melee for 2-4 turns (2-3 turns kill 5+ units is 5+ VP's!).

Spiritfox22 wrote:

 Homeskillet wrote:

Spiritfox22 wrote:
Ok so I got really bored and started reading some DE tactics and noticed a rather good option for them. The reavers can be equipped with heat lances so running a 6 man squad with 2 of them plus caltrops can allow a rather cheap tank hunting unit that can glance almost every tank in the game. With their main FOC giving you 6 fast attack slots you can field quite a bit anti tank/infantry for 146 per squad or 876 for 6x6 squad of them.

Though going all out with them isn't tactically sound it will be a nasty surprise the first time you shred your opponents landraider with a bunch of squishy bikes.

You can save the points and skip the Heat Lances; with their S6 rending HoW, they can take out vehicles (except some Walkers) and infantry. Most of the time they'll be jinking for 3+ anyway.

Fair enough though you can actually break every vehicle with an armor value. STR 6 plus a roll of 6 grants rending which is an extra D3 to armor pen vs Vehicles so a roll of 3+ grants you a glance on AV14.

Yeah sorry, I should have clarified; I meant RELIABLY kill most vehicles exept walkers.

How do you guys feel about a list like this for 1000 points:

HQ:
Court of the Archon - 10

Elite:
2x Blasterborn in venom - 170

Troop:
2x Kabalite Warriors w/blaster in venom - 110
Kabalite warriors in Raider w/nightshield and splinter racks - 165

Fast Attack:
FLEX - Scourges w/haywire - 120
- Reavers with 2 cluster caltrops - 126

Heavy Support:
Ravager w/3 Dark Lance - 125

Total: 995/1001

Feel like this has a good amount of added balance that my other list didn't have.
@Amishprn86 - That list looks like a ton of fun and very unique, if only I had enough money to be able to run something like that. On top of that, it looks like it is somewhat reliable and you know what you struggle with.

Why is your Ravager 140pts?

Other than that your list looks like a basic DE list

And I didnt spend much money on it at all, I literally Bought 3 Ogre boxes, 3 Talos Boxes, and 2 Morghast Harbingers boxes, With the few other DE and a couple Haei's, its actually my cheapest 2k Army. Even tho I have everything to play Apoc with DE lol, but that coven list is the cheapest list I field.

I just played my first game with my haywire scourges and they are wonderful. It was a low point game which sadly turned into a stomp in my favor, but they dropped in and popped a Leman Russ and took a point of a vendetta

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Why is your Ravager 140pts?

Oops no idea why it says 140, should be 125, I'll fix it now

Is there a way we have of dealing with Wulfen beyond pouring splinter cannons into them?

Is that not a great way to deal with wulfen?

You've also for dissy cannons, monoscythe missiles, etc...but splinter weaponry works great, particularly to shoot the shields off the units.