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I realized when doing some painting this week that I have over 70 Terminator models magnetized for use as any army, (even one on top for a chaos trophy rack if doing chaos and heads so that I can put on ork arms and heads as meganobz). I have only once used terminators on a table back in 6th (most of my marines never see a table to be honest). I was wondering if it would be possible to make a not terrible all terminator list in any codex. I am leaning towards Dark angels as I have 3 un-built dark vengeance boxes and it gives me an excuse to start building and painting them tonight, but am open to using any codex. I have the bits to run them as all th/ss, lc, or tacticals. if all terminators is a bad idea I am open to a few supporting units with them I could ally just about any codex except skitarri (have not yet got enough models for it, have one of the new combo boxes un-built)

Current idea is Dark Angels, the added toughness dudes when in base contact, the special character making them troops attached to 10 man terminator blob 5 th/ss 5 lc and as many terminators as I can fit in otherwise half tactical with missiles and the other half 2 th/ss 3 lc groups all in 5's footslogging it.

In my meta we mostly play maelstrom so I know I will be slow, but hopefully be able to hold objectives and put up a fight.

Spce wolves, company of the great wolf is my suggestion. They count as troops in that detachment and all get +1 to their WS for no extra cost. So every mode gets a WS of 5 which is sick. Plus they always count as charging even when charged so if you deep strike and get attacked they're still worth a damn. Also the Arjac shieldbrother formation is pretty bad ass as well, or just taking Arjac himself.

I'm not sure it's ever going to be competitive, but it can be fun. Both Dark Angels formations/detachments for Deathwing give them run and shoot on deep strike which helps mitigate some of their issues. It seems like you're best served playing either a couple of land raiders or drop pods and bikes for teleport homers though. It's very few models on the table so grav or Plasma spam can really evaporate your units quickly. Play them casual though and it's a fun, tricky list. Be warned, AV spam can be a real pain to deal with for this army.

An option is to ally Grey Knights with Brother Captain Stern as an HQ, he knows Sanctuary by default so you could attach him to the hammernators for 2++. Keeps it in line with your all terminator list, and you could add a Dreadknight for more 2+ fun.

Spam GK terms. They are the cheapest and have the best weapon options.

This was an idea I put into a different thread.
BrotherHood of Psykers
Level 2 Librarian w/Terminator Armor
Level 2 Librarian w/Terminator Armor
Level 2 Librarian w/Terminator Armor

1st Company Task Force Alpha
6 Terminators w/Cyclone ML
6 Terminators w/Cyclone ML
6 Terminators w/Cyclone ML

1st Company Task Force Beta
5 Terminators w/Cyclone ML
5 Terminators w/Cyclone ML
5 Terminators w/Cyclone ML
5 Terminators w/Cyclone ML

The entire army has 41 terminators on the table. I would either take Imperial Fists to increase their damage output or Iron Hands to increase durability.

With the Task Force benefits, you could get a lot of leverage with 'psychic scream' form your librarians. The Extremis Level Threat would also help your units punch down a wraithknight that got to close.
Since each libraraian can take psychic scream, this is a nice advantage. The way the 2d6 bell curve works, it means that you can expect to do 3.5 wounds to a LD10 on each cast. Every point below LD 10 should average 1 more wound per cast. Given you have 3 casts per turn -- that's not so bad. It might be enough to put down wraithknights.

The army throws out 81 bolter dice a turn, and has 14 MLs a turn to shoot as well. It's MSU to it can hit multiple targets. If you wanted to swap the CML's out for other heavy weapons, you could alter your choices. The idea is that you want heavy weapons in your squads.

That said, this army gives you more bodies on the ground than nearly any other terminator army you can put together. I also think it's your best bet today.

The problem with Dark Angels is that you have to take something else to spam their terminators, as the Terminator-specific Detachments all ask them to be deployed by Deep Strike (I am aware that there may be a bit of a rule booboo if you purchase a Land Raider for them, but this is not the place to discuss the legality of it so I'm discounting it for now).

Now I'm assuming GKs are out of the question since it sounds like you only own vanilla Terminators. For that, I would recommend using the vanilla codex. Dark Angels have some of the best Terminator Loadouts (and inches out Space Wolves because DA terminators are cheaper with the same loadout and are more shooting-focused than melee, which Terminators don't really have much of an issue with as-is) but they have a higher base cost than Vanilla Terminators (which is probably the cheapest you'll get) and have the above mentioned issue of lacking the ability to be fielded as a pure Terminator Force.

Vanilla Terminators, on the other hand, may lack the options of DA Terminators, but come with a few perks of their own:

1.) Cheaper. This is a major issue for Terminators of all kinds and personally I've always believed in the "more boys over toys" approach. An extra 5 points discount per terminator doesn't sound like much but any bit helps.

2.) Formations. Vanilla Terminators can be fielded either as a First Company Task Force or as a Strike Force Ultra. the Task Force gives them Fear and Fearless as the most reliable benefits (the other two are conditional and limited) but you can basically field only terminators and nothing else. This formation gives you a lot of flexibility. The other, Strikeforce Ultra, is basically Drop Pod Assault: Terminator Edition, and what the Deathwing Formations should have been (but sadly are not). They also get more attacks on the turn they charge out of their transports. The only drawback is that you have to purchase a Land Raider and Stormraven (as well as a Ven Dread but that's much less of a tax) which can get expensive.

aushlo wrote:
I'm not sure it's ever going to be competitive, but it can be fun. Both Dark Angels formations/detachments for Deathwing give them run and shoot on deep strike which helps mitigate some of their issues. It seems like you're best served playing either a couple of land raiders or drop pods and bikes for teleport homers though. It's very few models on the table so grav or Plasma spam can really evaporate your units quickly. Play them casual though and it's a fun, tricky list. Be warned, AV spam can be a real pain to deal with for this army.

I meant competitive in a fun environment as in not a auto lose to a good list. I'm not looking for tournament power gaming, just having some fun and holding my own

as for later replies I do have the bits to make them GK termies I bought the vanilla kits but have been collecting all the other armies arm bits and magnetized so they can have force halibards etc.

I do like the list here labmouse have to figure out the points but we usually play 1850 just do not have my codex at work

*update* I just got emailed asking to bring a waac tournament level Eldar and Tau army to help somebody try out a strong Spacewolves List.... looks like i get a week to plan this, and then bring it next weekend 4/3

So like others have said, all TDA probably wont win tournaments, but its going to look sweet as hell.
Some thoughts off the top of my head.

Curse of the wulfen has the new counter charge rule that is awesome, but unfortunately requires a butload of non TDA units EVEN IN THE TDA FORMATION! So that is... crud.

Champions of Fenris was mentioned, and Ill back it up. SW TDA will all be WS5, which is sweet, and they also have some unique options over other TDA.
1. They start in units of 3.
2. They all start with power sword/storm bolter. So they are cheaper by default. Cost the same when upgraded.

You also get 2 sweet TDA formations.
1. Shieldbrothers. Arjac and a unit of terminators. When termines are in B2b (just keep them in pairs) they are +1T. Also on SS saves of 6 in CC they immediately slap you with a thunderhammer.
2. Void claws. Its just a bunch of termies with dual wolf claws, but as long as one is on the table, re-roll all reserve rolls!

Mix this with a GK Nemesis strike force (yes yes, lore heresy, oh no) and you will have a pretty sweet army. I don't know what the rule fiasco would be like for deploying a nemesis strike force IC with void claws, as they both deep strike turn 1, I wouldn't try it, but if you got hammer hand on them it wuold be a bunch of S7 lighning claws.

You could bring fast attack pods from Great company for additional terminators on turn 1 as well.

Oh, I think SW TDA can take combi weapons instead of storm bolters, not sure what other TDA can do that, so its a nice little bonus as well. Drop in 5 dudes with combi meltas and power fists or whatever.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
1.) Cheaper. This is a major issue for Terminators of all kinds and personally I've always believed in the "more boys over toys" approach. An extra 5 points discount per terminator doesn't sound like much but any bit helps.

5 points per model adds up when you are bringing 36 of them. That's 180 points of terminators!

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
2.) Formations. Vanilla Terminators can be fielded either as a First Company Task Force or as a Strike Force Ultra. the Task Force gives them Fear and Fearless as the most reliable benefits (the other two are conditional and limited) but you can basically field only terminators and nothing else. This formation gives you a lot of flexibility. The other, Strikeforce Ultra, is basically Drop Pod Assault: Terminator Edition, and what the Deathwing Formations should have been (but sadly are not). They also get more attacks on the turn they charge out of their transports. The only drawback is that you have to purchase a Land Raider and Stormraven (as well as a Ven Dread but that's much less of a tax) which can get expensive.

That's why I think the First Company Task Force is the only real way to go. That overhead is just way to much.

Since terminators can deep strike anyway, taking 10 of your 39 terminators and deep striking them is not a bad option.
On hindsight, given the ability to combat squad, I might actually change up the build to something like this.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
I do like the list here labmouse have to figure out the points but we usually play 1850 just do not have my codex at work

Take a look at the spoiler above. I think in the first round I forgot to give the librarians terminator armor.
Making the squads 10 man in size also gives you less 'power weapons' which are inferior to power fists. If you have more models with power weapons, you may need to bring them anyway -- but ideally you want to bring as many fists as possible.

I would suggest taking something like this and playing with it. You won't know what it's like until you play some games. That is the best teacher on how to use the terminators to the greatest effect in terms of loadout and practice!

Let us know how the games work out. I'm actually very curious.

Using combat squads in a Taskforce has it's ups and downs. Since each Combat Squad count as a unit, it makes the leadership penalty ability much easier to use.

But if you buy a second Taskforce instead of combat squadding 3 max squads, you can pick a second target for the Preferred Enemy ability (since it's a totally different taskforce now).

Both has it's perks.

I find that having lots of scout units with teleport homers is useful for being able to deepstrike your Terminators to exactly the right spot.

GK is best - deep strike whole army first turn and produce more for less than any other terms. Tthey give you ML1 from each 5 man AND come stock with force and hammerhand for easy wounding And instant death. These are all things that all other terminators give up to them - Psycannons are superior to AC and HF too. You can easily put 40 terms out there with 8 psycannons + All the Libby support you need.

 Fifty wrote:
I find that having lots of scout units with teleport homers is useful for being able to deepstrike your Terminators to exactly the right spot.

I would not be as worried about it in this instance. While terminators do have decent CC (STR 8, AP2, unwieldy), usually they are not rushing into assault. As such, you can deepstrike 12"-24" away and still have full firing capability.

If you are using assault terminators, it's a different story.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
GK is best - deep strike whole army first turn and produce more for less than any other terms. Tthey give you ML1 from each 5 man AND come stock with force and hammerhand for easy wounding And instant death. These are all things that all other terminators give up to them - Psycannons are superior to AC and HF too. You can easily put 40 terms out there with 8 psycannons + All the Libby support you need.

Yep. Cheaper terminators + BoS makes for pretty strong units. You can back it up with some wraithknights as well. Pretty solid selection.

Loyalists: 1st Company Task Force

Chaos: Min sized combi-squads

I for one am fascinated to see a magnetized termie thaf can be used as chaos, DA, or ork Meganob!

PIKTURZ PLEEZE

You want some awesome terminator spam? Try this one:

Grey Knight Nemesis Formation

1 Librarian, ML3 with Liber Daemonica. Roll on Sanctic exclusively.
-Add a Storm Bolter

1 Librarian, ML3 with Cuirass of Sacrifice. Fish for Invisibility.
-Add a Storm Bolter

10 Terminator Unit (combat squadded)
-10 Nemesis Daemon Hammers
-2 Psycannons

10 Terminator Unit (combat squadded)
-10 Nemesis Daemon Hammers
-2 Psycannons

10 Terminator Unit (combat squadded)
-10 Nemesis Daemon Hammers
-2 Psycannons

1 Ordo Malleus Inquisitor
-Add Terminator Armor, Psycannon and Nemesis Daemon Hammer
-Add 3 Servo-Skulls
-Upgrade to ML1, grab Divination

1849 points, all terminators.

Benefits:

1. A whopping 31 Nemesis Daemon Hammers. That's a lot of Sx2, AP2!
2. Entire army is 2+, 5++
3. You get Divination Primaris and 3 shots at Invisibility
4. The Sanctic Librarian gives you an 80% chance of any particular Sanctic power.
5. 7 Psycannons (28 shots) and ~58 bolter shots
6. Entire army deep strikes starting turn 1 with servo-skull support!

Could have some fun with this list I think!

Some things to consider about DA terminators.

A) You have three Terminator Squad options in the elite slot. DW Terminator squad, DW Command Squad, and DW Knight squad.
There's no restrictions that I can see with either CAD or the Deathwing formation that require the use of any of the above.
Only Lion's Blade restricts the use of the Command Squad.

B) They are more expensive for very small benefits.

C) Deathwing formation cannot be exclusively terminator models or you will lose the game automatically

Command squad has two interesting options. One, they start with 5 power fists and no sergeant. This is already an advantage. For one meltabomb you can upgrade one model to an apothecary. For one melta bomb you can upgrade one model to a Deathwing Champ with a Halberd. This is a S6 AP2 weapon that strikes at I4 and WS5. Champ must give and issue challenges. Those two items make DW Command Squads interesting IMO. Why would you take a power sword instead of a halberd?

If you were to deploy a Deathwing Knight squad as part of an all-terminator detachment, it would have to be deployed by deep strike. This means that your DW Knight squad would receive much less benefit compared to the run and shoot allowed to other Termies, you would not get twin-linked shooting the turn you arrive from deep strike, and you'd be basically sitting there like a clown after deep strike waiting until next turn so you can assault. They're also very expensive and not AP2 unless you drop to 1 attack.

I tried the strike force ultra today. I will admit I was extremely unlucky with 2 up saves, but the terminator armor shows its weakness. If you get unlucky your hardcore boned.

At this point I cannot see myself ever using terminators again in their current state. Too many points for lackluster firepower and too fragile of models. The assault ones require land raiders which are just too expensive. Now maybe putting assault termies in drop pods could do some work, but I doubt it. I am not really convinced you could make them work on any semi competitive level atm, but I am fresh off a string of failed 2 up saves so I am saltier than a saltine cracker.

Deathwing gains TL on the Deep Strike. That alone helps with the insane cost. Don't get regular squads though. The Command Squads get all 5 Power Fists so there's no challenge shenanigans, and one gets an Apothecary. Cool I guess...

Other than that, GK is your best bet.

I think with terminators, and similar units, you require enough to achieve target saturation, but at the same time you can't build an army exclusively around such units.

I guess spam level mild-moderate is advised. One squad will just get blown off the table, as will an army of them. Some where in the middle is better.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
At this point I cannot see myself ever using terminators again in their current state. Too many points for lackluster firepower and too fragile of models. The assault ones require land raiders which are just too expensive. Now maybe putting assault termies in drop pods could do some work, but I doubt it. I am not really convinced you could make them work on any semi competitive level atm, but I am fresh off a string of failed 2 up saves so I am saltier than a saltine cracker.

Terminators are exactly twice as durable against scatter laser fire than a tactical marine -- which is not saying much.
5 scatter laser bikes will do this to a terminator squad
(2/3 to hit) * (5/6 to wound) * (1/6 failed save) = 5/54 * 20 shots = 100/54 TEQ dead, or just under 2 marines.
The return firepower of the terminators just cannot match that, and they cannot repel firepower of that magnitude.

Terminators, with practice, should be able to make it into a tier two army. But if you are facing down 30 scat bikes, it's not even a contest.

Chaos version (just for fun):

155 Sorcerer, ML3, Terminator Armor, SF, mb
155 Sorcerer, ML3, Terminator Armor, SF, mb
491 10 Terminators, 2Reapers, 5 CPlasma, 2 Chainfist, MoS, Icon of Excess
136 4 Terminators, 4 CMelta
110 3 Terminators, 3 CMelta
50 10 Cultists
50 10 Cultists
228 3 Obliterators, MoN
228 3 Obliterators, MoN
237 3 Obliterators, MoN, VotLW
1850

Sorcerers join Obliterators and fish for Invisibility/Endurance and maybe one Summoning. 28 Terminator models (some with T5 or FNP) and enough close combat and ranged threats to be enjoyable.

Cilithan

If you're wanting to do Terminator spam with CSM, use The Purge FOC.

You could run 1 or 2 Land Raider Spearhead formations: Gives your termies some mobility and protection, and most armies cant handle 3-6 land raiders in terms of AV. People say land raiders suck but once you start running more than 1 they are just too durable (minus that random lucky melta explosion roll) to deal with before they crash into your lines. The formation also allows your land raiders to reroll shooting wounds/armor pens on Garg Creatures and Superheavys and ignore all vehicle damage results besides Explodes if they are within 6" of another tank in the formation. The Land Raiders themselves also have decent firepower and with Power of the Machine Spirit they can pull off some shenanigans.

Plus having 6 Land Raiders full of termies as the only units in your army is just so badass and fluffy.

So I did a list I think I like the idea of space wolves and gray knights.

1847

primary (1202)

Warlord rune priest ML2 terminator armor, rune axe

elites
6 termies - 2 th/ss termies, 2 wolf claw termies (1 w/ CML), 1 combi melta termie , wolf guard terminator leader frost axe and combi melta
3 termies - leader combi melta and power axe, 1 th/ss 1 combi melta/power axe

no slot
4 lone wolves terminator armor ss/frost axe

troops
2x 5 grey hunters 1 melta gun in drop pod w/ homing beacon
5 grey hunters w/las/pls razorback, storm bolter and dozer blades

allied 647

HQ Librarian- terminator armor ML3, warding stave

elites
5 Paladins 1 apothecary, 2 paladins w/ warding staves, 1 w/ force sword, 1 w/ psycannon and sword

troops
5x termies, 1 w/ haliberd (had 2 points) 2 w/ swords, 1 psycannon/sword, justicar w/ sword



so 26 terminator bodies, with option to deep strike in near locator beacons on drop pods. meltas a plenty to open up transports and assault insides. razorback to help with armor and squad to hang back to hold objectives /hide. if need be all 3 stay out of drop pods and drop pods just go in on their own providing homing beacons and/or screening termies.