Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2016/03/27 00:57:44
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Hi everybody, not to hate on the BaC people, but not everyone started 30k with that set, my troops are still on the small bases I am wondering what the current strongest units to take for Iron Warriors are in the Heresy Setting. Here is my current list, I am looking to purchase some more units. What should I add or switch out?
HQ:
Legion Praetor (Attached to tyrant termies)....135
Cataphracti Armour
Pride of the Legion
Troops
Legion Tac Squad (1 Apoth here)...245
16x Marines
+ Sergeant w/ Articifer Armour and Power Fist
Legion Tac squad (other Apoth here)....255
17x Marines
+ Sergeant w/ AA and PF
Legion Tac Support Squad...215
4x Marines with Plasma Guns
+ Sergeant with Plasma Gun
Rhino with Dozer Blade
Tyrant Siege Terminator Squad...495
4x Termies
+ Sergeant
Land raider Proteus Transport
Elites
Apothecary Detachment...110
2x Apothecaries barebones, each in one above tac squad
Contemptor Mortis ...180
2x Kheres Assault Cannons
Heavy Support
Predator...115
Lascannon Sponsons
Vindicator...125
Dozer Blade
Vindicator...125
Dozer Blade
My basic tactics are to advance with the tac squads, supported by Vindis and dread, while the termies, LR, and pred provide fire support. The Plasma squad are great at hanging in reserve and darting in to assassinate something (killed Fulgrim today ) Or can help with late game objective grabbing. They usually draw a lot of fire. The termies can then advance to sit on a midfield objective I like to place just out of my deployment zone, but can help in the assault to mop up units in late game.
So what units are the best for iron warriors these days? I have seen a lot of quad mortar guns popping up in lists online, are these as good as people day they are?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/27 00:59:17
2016/03/27 01:42:37
Subject: Re:Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Yes.
The quad mortar is epic. My three took down a footslogging fulgrim, legion praetor and terminator bodygaurd - took five turns but they did it. It's biggest plus for me was that it could multi-role; barraging templates from behined a building, but can also do some serious harm to lighter vehicles with it's shatter shells in direct fire mode.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-px27tzAtVwZpZ4ljopV2w "ashtrays and teacups do not count as cover"
"jack of all trades, master of none; certainly better than a master of one"
The Ordo Reductor - the guy's who make wonderful things like the Landraider Achillies, but can't use them in battle..
2016/03/27 03:35:04
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Don't forget, the quad mortars are a little more expensive now and don't come with shatter shells base. but, you can get the ignores cover rounds, and PHOSPHEX SHELLS (if you have a siege breaker )
EDIT: Also, Tyrant Siege Terminators are a Heavy Support Choice now, and as such can't be troops with the Pride of the Legion RoW.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/27 03:36:08
Swampmist wrote: Don't forget, the quad mortars are a little more expensive now and don't come with shatter shells base. but, you can get the ignores cover rounds, and PHOSPHEX SHELLS (if you have a siege breaker )
EDIT: Also, Tyrant Siege Terminators are a Heavy Support Choice now, and as such can't be troops with the Pride of the Legion RoW.
Was this in an FAQ?
2016/03/27 16:17:42
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Swampmist wrote: Don't forget, the quad mortars are a little more expensive now and don't come with shatter shells base. but, you can get the ignores cover rounds, and PHOSPHEX SHELLS (if you have a siege breaker )
EDIT: Also, Tyrant Siege Terminators are a Heavy Support Choice now, and as such can't be troops with the Pride of the Legion RoW.
Was this in an FAQ?
They put out a 2nd edition of the Legion Red Book. It was changes in this book.
Us Iron Warrior players got rules for the Iron Circle in the new Red Book Also. They are a elite choice, 200+ point MC's with T7. Squads of 1-5 guys if I recall? A single Iron Warrior Independent charater can join the unit. Forgeworld has Previewed the models at a open day, but they have not released them yet.
Book 6 for HH also came with some interesting updates that make it worth getting. It has the updated rules for Quad Mortars that now get multiple new shell types including Phoserpex in you take the siege breaker.
The big thing is the book contains the new Rites of War that exist. A hole bunch of new generic ones everyone can take, and a new one for every legion so far. As Iron Warriors we get the "Ironfire Protocols". In the spoiler tag I'm just going to copy the description from the 1d4chan legion tactica page.
Spoiler:
Rite of War: Ironfire - 'Danger-march your infantry forward amidst raining artillery fire'
Rolling Bombardment: Firing barrage weapons within 12" of your own units allows them to only scatter a single D6 for better accuracy, but it gets better. When you resolve the attack, leave an "Ironfire" counter at the point underneath the blast and from then on, further barrages do not scatter at all if within 18" of these markers and within 6" of your own units, meaning you can inch your forces forward turn by turn under a deadly accurate series of carpet bombs. Obviously this rite of War really needs to be combined with all your Artillery and Quad Mortars to have a real impact, plus enough appropriate units to act as targets "fire guides". However, all Ironfire counters are removed should a turn pass with no new counters placed, so make sure you can keep the pressure up. Way better than the assistance any nuncio-vox could provide.
The bonus functions near any and all Iron Warriors units, not necessarily infantry. It can be near the Spartan carrying Golg's terminators for all you care.
Precision artillery fire is nice and all, but would you like to snipe specific soldiers, such as officers or special weapons bearers, using indirect barrages? By equipping a few marines with nuncio-voxes you'll be enabling your artillery to use their BS4 to all but eliminate the mean 3.5" scatter. True, you could inch your dudes closer and deny scatter for free, but perhaps 10pts saving you a turn of moving could be worth a thought?
Ride the Ironfire: Iron Warriors within 6" of an Ironfire marker become Fearless, yet another reason to keep the artillery fire moving forward.
Worthy of note is the fact that, unlike many other rites, this one lacks a movement or FOC limitation, meaning you can bring all the fast stuff you want in order to have many opportunities to place Ironfire counters each turn, as well as to get the most out of Fearless. And the bonus says "near your units", without specifying when it happens, so you could flat out/turbo-boost/get your assault marines to run after they used their jump packs BUT before you fire those barrage weapons, and it would be perfectly legal.
You must always be the attacker in missions with Attacker/Defender roles.
You may never take Fortifications or Allied Space Marines detachments. AdMech allies are still go.
Bring Ordo Reductor's Siege engines, they're Sworn Brothers to you so they'll benefit both from the increased accuracy, and they're a nice way of getting around the artillery squadron's 0-1 limit. The only requisites are a Magos Reductor (which you kinda want) and a unit of generally-useful Thallax.
Important: Bring lots of AA/Interceptors and anything you can to protect your artillery, as they are the center piece of this strategy. Mortis Dreads and/or Deredeos can provide adequate protection.
I sujest in general to check out 1D4chan's legion tactica, it's the most comprehensive tactica of the legion list on the web. I'm not sure if I should link to it, due to the NSFW galleries that are also hosted on the website. The tactia itself is SFW, but the rest of the website not so much. Just search 1D4chan Legion List in google and it's the top result.
edit: Consider switching to Hammer of olympia. Drop the plasma squad for a 3rd tac squad and you will get a 4th heavy support slot for the siege termies. You also get free Extra-armour for your tanks and can charge after rapid fireing bolt guns as a extra bonus.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/03/27 16:28:17
2016/03/28 07:54:42
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
I don't know why everyone thinks the 4chan review is such a great site. It provides a decent overview of the units and touches on a few things to do. B&C has a much better detailed 30k tactica, even down to individual legions along with the obvious pros as to why it works for this guy to the cons from this other guy.
Just remember we got nerfed badly with the change to Tyrants. It is even more of a gunline list now than it was. I personally hate the quad-launcher weapons but they seem to have real value with the new RoW. They seem to want to push the gunline theme with artillery a bit more than before with troops forward with close support from big guns. How this plays out on the field I do not know. Would have been nice if they removed the 0-1 artillery restriction for at least this RoW so its not just quad launchers people are spamming.
If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM!
2016/03/28 16:08:27
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
If people are spamming something in just about all lists it probably means its to good for its points usually.
Quad mortars may need even more of a point increase to be "balanced" if they are still auto includes for all armies which it seems most people still rave about them.
Otherwise we get to 40k unbalanced land where even when stuff is blatantly underpointed and everyone is spamming it, it doesn't get fixed.
Seems almost all game companies are still living in the past----they need to embrace the internet and market to it. In otherwords stop relying on printed media and move to online updateable/fixable digital media.
Is no reason almost all army books shouldn't be in an online format that is just updated with new point changes/restrictions and editions in the modern world. Sell a online subscription if you feel your company must have more money on books.
2016/03/29 05:34:47
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Siege Tyrants aren't elites anymore, they're heavy support, this can't be spammed with Pride of the Legion. You can make up for that by bring Erasmus Golg as an HQ, he makes Siege Tyrants troops!
2016/03/29 18:56:06
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Col. Dash wrote: I don't know why everyone thinks the 4chan review is such a great site. It provides a decent overview of the units and touches on a few things to do. B&C has a much better detailed 30k tactica, even down to individual legions along with the obvious pros as to why it works for this guy to the cons from this other guy.
It's organized better then the B&C one, making it easier to browse around and get a quick idea of what exactly each unit is about. This makes it easier to for many people to read threw and digest everything they are reading. It will also generally updates faster then the B&C as the new books come out since it's written by multiple people in a wiki-format.
Don't get me wrong, the B&C one is good, and you are right that it's more comprehensive in it's break down on units. But the 1d4chan is just alot more convenient.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/29 18:57:51
2016/03/30 20:28:59
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Yack Maniels wrote: Siege Tyrants aren't elites anymore, they're heavy support, this can't be spammed with Pride of the Legion. You can make up for that by bring Erasmus Golg as an HQ, he makes Siege Tyrants troops!
I thought all he did was make regular terminator squads troops? This is amazing!
Col. Dash wrote: I don't know why everyone thinks the 4chan review is such a great site. It provides a decent overview of the units and touches on a few things to do. B&C has a much better detailed 30k tactica, even down to individual legions along with the obvious pros as to why it works for this guy to the cons from this other guy.
It's organized better then the B&C one, making it easier to browse around and get a quick idea of what exactly each unit is about. This makes it easier to for many people to read threw and digest everything they are reading. It will also generally updates faster then the B&C as the new books come out since it's written by multiple people in a wiki-format.
Don't get me wrong, the B&C one is good, and you are right that it's more comprehensive in it's break down on units. But the 1d4chan is just alot more convenient.
Alright I read both tacticas. It seems that the current competitive list is either an ironfire style arty list or a regular legion list with the typical things including Perturabo and termies in a spartan. I found no comprehensive examples though. What would your lists be if you were going to a 30k tourny with Iron Warriors?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/30 20:36:53
2016/04/01 21:27:26
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Yack Maniels wrote: Siege Tyrants aren't elites anymore, they're heavy support, this can't be spammed with Pride of the Legion. You can make up for that by bring Erasmus Golg as an HQ, he makes Siege Tyrants troops!
I thought all he did was make regular terminator squads troops? This is amazing!
I don't see why not, they ARE terminators after all.
2016/04/07 04:16:55
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Yack Maniels wrote: Siege Tyrants aren't elites anymore, they're heavy support, this can't be spammed with Pride of the Legion. You can make up for that by bring Erasmus Golg as an HQ, he makes Siege Tyrants troops!
I thought all he did was make regular terminator squads troops? This is amazing!
I don't see why not, they ARE terminators after all.
Tyrants are not made troops by Golg.
"Flame, hammer and blood – so is meteoric iron worked, so were the Heavenfall Blades tempered. So too shall I test the Unforgiven."
— Cypher
2016/04/07 16:51:18
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Didn't think so but I didn't have my book around to check.
As for a tournament it depends on the points level. 30k has cool stuff but I don't think it will handle a competitive scene very well. You will have some really easy matchups(horde armies) and some not so easy match ups with little to no counters.
Personally if I was running IW for a 2kish tourney(lowest point I would even try(not that I would play a tourney with a 30k force anyway)) I would go with 5-10 Tyrants, some missile Iron Havoks(because that's what I have), Tyr, a Typhus, thyroid, oh whatever the vindicator on steroids is called, a Deredeo for AA, 2 squads of 15 or so tacs with apothecaries with scanners, a defense line and however many quad mortars you have left plus a siege breaker in cata armor to walk with the Tyrants.
Should give you all around coverage. Kind of screwed in maelstrom though so if you know that's what you are playing, then drop the tacs and switch to vets with rhinos and pride of the legion RoW.
If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM!
2016/04/07 17:00:26
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
I still find Vindicator's a bit meh, they have the same issues as their 40K counter parts.
Personally I like Iron Havocs a lot more, either Autocannons to keep them cheap-ish, or ML to bring the pain.
Depending on the points you want to move to you could also consider one of the Consuls too. Master of Signals is great, Seige breaker is a natural for fluff (and stick him with the Tyrants for tank hunting goodness, then throw Phospex bombs at people when you get out of the LR).
Have you looked at their new ROW where they get reduced scatter on barrage if you land the shots near your own infantry, and conversely the infantry gain fearless when near the spot that you landed the barrage? It looks like a very dynamic and hard hitting playstyle.
2016/04/07 19:44:36
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
If you are referring to my post, the vindicator I am talking about is a superheavy but functions like a vindicator on steroids. I forget the exact stats but its 14 front armor, I think 13 maybe 14 sides. 7" blast str 10 ignores cover. Think it shoots 36". If memory serves you can get quad lascannon sponsons as well. I might be wrong, haven't looked at the book in awhile, and mine is still in bags.
An often overlooked Iron Havok thing is AA missiles are free if you have missile launchers and the sgt can carry a auspix. So you get intercept and/or skyfire and they have tankhunter already. Have Kyr give them an ammo dump for added fun, I forget if it twin links or gives rerolls of one.
If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM!
2016/04/07 19:53:22
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Col. Dash wrote: If you are referring to my post, the vindicator I am talking about is a superheavy but functions like a vindicator on steroids. I forget the exact stats but its 14 front armor, I think 13 maybe 14 sides. 7" blast str 10 ignores cover. Think it shoots 36". If memory serves you can get quad lascannon sponsons as well. I might be wrong, haven't looked at the book in awhile, and mine is still in bags.
An often overlooked Iron Havok thing is AA missiles are free if you have missile launchers and the sgt can carry a auspix. So you get intercept and/or skyfire and they have tankhunter already. Have Kyr give them an ammo dump for added fun, I forget if it twin links or gives rerolls of one.
their bs5, so same difference really . Also, I think your thinking of the Typhon, aka one of the best superheavy tanks for it's cost. Might be one of the bigger ones though, not sure.
Typhon, that's it, I couldn't remember the name and didn't feel like going to FW to find it. While I oppose it for most general lists and legions as I think they use it as a crutch like rapier batteries, I think its an especially fluffy tank for IW.
If you dont short hand your list, Im not reading it.
Example: Assault Intercessors- x5 -Thunder hammer and plasma pistol on sgt.
or Assault Terminators 3xTH/SS, 2xLCs
For the love of God, GW, get rid of reroll mechanics. ALL OF THEM!
2016/04/08 15:06:53
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
Col. Dash wrote: I don't know why everyone thinks the 4chan review is such a great site. It provides a decent overview of the units and touches on a few things to do. B&C has a much better detailed 30k tactica, even down to individual legions along with the obvious pros as to why it works for this guy to the cons from this other guy.
It's organized better then the B&C one, making it easier to browse around and get a quick idea of what exactly each unit is about. This makes it easier to for many people to read threw and digest everything they are reading. It will also generally updates faster then the B&C as the new books come out since it's written by multiple people in a wiki-format.
Don't get me wrong, the B&C one is good, and you are right that it's more comprehensive in it's break down on units. But the 1d4chan is just alot more convenient.
Alright I read both tacticas. It seems that the current competitive list is either an ironfire style arty list or a regular legion list with the typical things including Perturabo and termies in a spartan. I found no comprehensive examples though. What would your lists be if you were going to a 30k tourny with Iron Warriors?
I would be running hammer of Olympia for 4 heavy support slots, or Armoured Breakthrough.
When I run Hammer I run something like a unit of seige termies, 2 scicarians, and a plasma pred. Then counting on points I run other 2 tac squads in rhinos, 20 man on foot with apothocary and warsmith. Or 3 rac squads in rhinos with the Warsmith on bike with bikers to get him into CC faster.
In armoured Breakthrough warsmith is on bikefollowing behind tanks repairing, scicarians in the elite slots and then mostly what you would expect for a armoured Breakthrough list.
I have also seen arguments in favour of iron warriors in orbital assault lists. Teleporting in siege termies is nice.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/04/08 15:08:24
2016/04/09 06:11:28
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
More Dakka wrote: I still find Vindicator's a bit meh, they have the same issues as their 40K counter parts.
Personally I like Iron Havocs a lot more, either Autocannons to keep them cheap-ish, or ML to bring the pain.
Depending on the points you want to move to you could also consider one of the Consuls too. Master of Signals is great, Seige breaker is a natural for fluff (and stick him with the Tyrants for tank hunting goodness, then throw Phospex bombs at people when you get out of the LR).
Have you looked at their new ROW where they get reduced scatter on barrage if you land the shots near your own infantry, and conversely the infantry gain fearless when near the spot that you landed the barrage? It looks like a very dynamic and hard hitting playstyle.
Yeah, it sounds über fluffy and fun. Maybe a couple thudd guns, phosphex medusas, scorpius, orbital bombardements (Perty for the ROW and masters of signal), havocs and mortis for AA, and 2 or 3 tac squads on foot or in rhinos to get the templates nearby. Fluffy and probably competitive. What does everyone think?
2016/04/09 15:16:47
Subject: Questions about the current combos and best units to take for Iron Warriors, Returning 30k player
I am wondering what the current strongest units to take for Iron Warriors are in the Heresy Setting. Here is my current list, I am looking to purchase some more units. What should I add or switch out?
) Or can help with late game objective grabbing. They usually draw a lot of fire. The termies can then advance to sit on a midfield objective I like to place just out of my deployment zone, but can help in the assault to mop up units in late game.
)
