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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 13:22:04
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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[semi-rant incoming]
So, I've started actually thinking about the TLT last night when I saw a guy running 3 of them. It then brought back horror stories of when I've fought them at tournaments. I am actually astounded that FFG would add something like that to the game. FFG has done an excellent job balancing almost every aspect of this game. That's why I love this game. Even with some of the sub-par ships, if you fly them well or build a decent list with some fancy ideas, you can make them work (I was surprised at how well my Guri-Serissu-Talonbane list did last night).
Then you have the popular builds that people "netlist" in tournaments. Fat Han + (insert Ace or swarm here), Super Dash + (insert Ace here), Palpmobile, Imperial Aces, TIE Swarm, Rebel Aces, Bug Zapper Scum, Brobots, ext. Every single one of these lists requires strategy to play. Even Fat Han, in the hands of an inexperienced player, isn't going to perform well. TIE Swarms need delicate consideration of where you want to move and remembering who moves first, because a bumped TIE is a dead TIE.
Now, to put things in perspective, I also play Warhammer 40k. I prefer casual games, not super-hardcore "spam the most powerful build" lists. So if someone shows up to a casual gaming group on a Saturday with min squads of Scatterbikes and as many Wraithknights as people allow them to bring, I immediately have no respect for said person, and would refuse them a game. I dislike "point-n-click" tactics, which is why I have taken such a liking to X-wing within the past year. 40k has gone downhill, and has almost no tactics whatsoever, and usually ends up with "I have a better formation, so I win".
So lets look at the balancing factors of the turrets currently in game:
- Blaster Turret: 3 points, 3 attack, Range 1-2, requires a focus to shoot. Okay, requiring a focus to shoot is a bit annoying, but it was okay for ships that could accumulate focus. Otherwise, you're paying for the ability to ignore your firing arc to hit things around you, and the sacrifice of range. So you have to actually plan your maneuvers. Are you within Range 1 or an enemy ship? They're going to hurt you. Are you within Range 3? You can't hit them. You get the benefit of ignoring your arc, but you have to think about where you're going to move.
- Ion Turret: 5 points, 3 Attack, Range 1-2. Downside of this turret is that it can only ever do 1 damage. Upside is it does Ion damage, which is very useful. Otherwise, suffers same drawbacks as the Blaster Turret due to range. This turret also requires a bit more though in list building of how to get the most out of your Ion.
- Autoblaster Turret: 2 points, 2 Attack, Range 1. Okay, so obvious drawbacks are obvious. Most ships that can take a turret are not that maneuverable, so guaranteeing being within range 1 is a challenge, especially against someone who knows what they're doing. However, the upside it you can shut down an ace pretty quick if you're lucky.
- Dorsal Turret - 3 points, 2 Attack, Range 1-2. Again, same drawbacks as before, but you have the benefit of a cheap turret that doesn't require a focus to shoot, plus essentially gets a Range bonus at Range 1. I personally like the Dorsal turret.
- Large Ship Turrets - We have larger ships in the game that come with Primary Weapon turrets. It's very strong, and some people can argue that they don't need to worry about lining up shots, which makes them easy to fly. Sure, to an extent. The balance here is that most Large ships that have a hard hitting primary weapon aren't really able to always line up shots, and if they didn't have a primary weapon turret, they would go most of the time with no shot, which is a waste of 40-50 points. So it compensates. You also have things such as being a Range 3 that you have to consider, which is good for the Large ship, as you get an extra defense most of the time, but you're also giving your targets an extra defense.
So now we have the Twin-Laser Turret. The easy street. The golden ticket.
- Twin-Laser Turret. 6 points, 3 Attack, Range 2-3. Can only ever do 1 damage, but attacks twice. This is obviously good. Do you have 2 or less Agility? There's a good chance you'll take a damage and not even have to roll your defense dice. This does consistent damage every turn.
So let's talk about "tactics" with the Twin-Laser Turret. It ignores the downsides of the previously mentioned turrets. You can be as far out as Range 3 and still be able to attack, as well as ignoring Range bonuses to the defender. So the tactics are, you can fly around pretty much wherever, and still hit what you need to. However, with the Range 1 donut hole, the obvious tactic is to get as close as you can, as fast as you can so they can't shoot at you. Acceptable, sure. However, that doesn't quite become an option when someone runs 3-4 of these. You can easily fit 4 TLT Y-wings in a list, with Unhinged Astromechs to boot. So getting within Range 1 is fine, but you'll still be within firing range of 2-3 of these things. So, are you something like the Decimator, YT-1300, Ghost, Shuttle, or YV-666? You would be taking 6-8 damage a turn, and there's pretty much nothing you could do about it.
You might be thinking, "Okay, it's a hard counter to big ships, and?" Well, Large ships already had counters, such as Aces that can out maneuver them, things with Auto-thrusters, Swarm lists, ext. Why would they need another auto-counter? And Large base ships are the only things that TLTs can counter effectively. They can still put up a fight against Aces. They attack twice each, so if you want to not take the damage, you'll probably end up spending your token(s) on the first or second attack, and then you're left vulnerable for the other attacks. They can also fight against Swarms for the same reason. 4 TLTs can reliable kill 2 Z-95s a turn, if not come close to it. It will also ruin the day of things like B-wings, enemy Y-wings, enemy Kwings (though the latter 2 will be doing the same thing to you), the new Mist Hunter, X-wings, Kihraxz, ext. They are just all around good. However, that is not the entire source of my distaste for them.
My main dislike for them, is the fact that they are point-n-click. I watched this guy play last night, who is by no means a super experienced player. In fact, he's still learning a lot of the aspects of the game, and frequently comes to me with questions about rules and clarifications. However, he used 3 TLTs and completely destroyed. All he had to do was move a 3-bank, focus, attack whatever he could. That was it. The opponent could do nothing against it, removing 1-2 shields per attack, half the time without even rolling his dice. He was even outmaneuvering him with Auto thrusters on his T-70s, but the 2 agility was a death sentence essentially. I felt so bad to witness this. Even when he'd close the distance to one, the other 2 were within range to shoot. The lack of strategy that was required for that win was mind-boggling, and really makes me question what FFG was thinking, adding something like that to a game that they otherwise balanced so well.
It's things like that that I hate within games. Losing is one thing, learn to fly better and move on. Losing against TLT spam offers no lesson to be learned, other than "bring a Swarm against that guy". And I've seen it at tournaments. This guy has regen-Poe with K-wings. This guy has 3 K-wings with TLTs and Tacticians. Or lately, this guy has the Ghost with the TLT, with a K-wing with a TLT. Like, really people?
Am I the only one who's bugged by this? I mean sure, 1 TLT isn't game breaking, 2 is even manageable to an extent, but 3 or more is ridiculous, and is like playing the game on easy mode.
What do you guys think? I apologize if I come off whiny or something, but I really enjoy this game and am really into balanced things, and when I see something glaringly point-n-click as this, I have to address it. I have played with the TLT before, admittedly. But I've never used more than 1, and it was on Miranda, who is a ton of fun to play. I also only own 1 K-wing. Am I wrong to have some high standard set for myself that makes me refrain from using things like this? Am I wrong in being distraught about this subject? Am I wrong to feel like I always have to bring a hard counter to TLTs if I play a pick up game, since that's what people seem to spam?
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40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 13:41:24
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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TLT isn't that good, plain and simple.
It was designed to do one thing: chip away at high hull points fortresses.
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 13:53:23
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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ScootyPuffJunior wrote:TLT isn't that good, plain and simple.
It was designed to do one thing: chip away at high hull points fortresses.
And theoretically, you are correct. This doesn't explain why so many people bring them. It's to the point where if a ship has a turret slot, the TLT is the only one you'll see on it (barring the new combo of Autoblaster + AC on Ghost, but even that's not as good as the hype).
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40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 14:02:48
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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krodarklorr wrote:And theoretically, you are correct. This doesn't explain why so many people bring them. It's to the point where if a ship has a turret slot, the TLT is the only one you'll see on it (barring the new combo of Autoblaster + AC on Ghost, but even that's not as good as the hype).
People bring them for the same reason they bring Poe or Fel or the Stressbot: they're good, especially compared to the other turret upgrades available (most of which suck).
They aren't game-breaking good, though. So you saw a newer player do well with a TLT list against X-wings.... big deal. Obviously the guy with the X-wings isn't that good either because a squad of X-wings can take a Y-wing off the board easily in one turn of shooting.
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 14:20:35
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Fixture of Dakka
Bathing in elitist French expats fumes
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And almost all X-wings will shoot before your 4 TLTs, so there is a good chance you only ever get to fire 3 of them right off the bat.
I've only ever played TLTs in singles, and I barely cause a damage a turn, usually. autothrusters are alive and well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 15:14:56
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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There's a R1 Doughnut hole, ships with turret slots all tend towards low agility, and often low PS in tourney lists, high agility ships still have a reasonable chance of avoiding or mitigating damage, especially with AT, and tankier ships still have a chance to buy time to do something about them thanks to the relatively low damage rate, they're 6 pts a pop.
It's a shame so many people have jumped onto a 0 thought, 0 skill list, but I'd say that the TLT is just fine as it stands, and if it really is generating a disproportionate amount of wins, we can expect a nerf or counter in future waves, so it won't be around forever.
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/29 16:14:36
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Huge Hierodule
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I agree that a 4TLT Y-wing list takes more effort to beat than to win with. High agility ships without autothrusters get overwhelmed by attack dice, tanky low agility ships only have a set time to live, and Y-wings are amazing at attrition.
That said, they can be beaten, and I've done it, against some very good players. The key is to limit how many ships they can point at you, and play you range bands.
1) Rush in or shoot from a distance? You do not get bonus Evade Dice vs the TLT, the Y-wings do. Even taking them head on, an Agility 2+ ship will be less worried about range 1 primaries than the TLT, and appreciates the damage bonus. If you can ensure that the first shots occur at range 1, the damage boost will give you a much needed attrition advantage. The danger here is overshooting the Y-wings if they also rush you.
Alternately, you could hold back, if you have autothrusters. This may isolate the lead Y-wings, meaning that you only trade shots with them while getting autothrusters. Damage won't be huge, but will give you an advantage at range 1-2.
2) Do anything to stop them from focusing fire. Leave Biggs at range 2 of some of them while Wedge rushes in. Ram them. Stay as far back as you can so only the guy you are shooting can return fire. Tractor beam a guy onto a rock. The reliable damage from combined TLT fire is what makes them a big threat. If even one ship doesn't get a shot in, your ship will live another round.
3) Spring for that Mid-tier PS. If it dies before it shoots, that's reducing their firepower. TLT spam lists have to make big sacrifices to get above PS 2. Y-wings have to drop a ship or droids (and not all ships will be PS 4 if they drop droids), K-wings have to run a 3rd generic over Miranda. So, if you have a couple points left over, maybe grab that PS 4 generic instead of some other filler.
4) Be very Careful with arc-dodgers- they can be extremely powerful by getting into range 1/autothrusters, but will probably be shredded if you get shot at head-on, even if their name is Soontir Fel. Automatically Appended Next Post: If we consider a TLT heavy to be half or more of your ships have TLT's, then at worlds:
Paul Heavers list had 2/4 as TLT Y-wings, but one was Stresshog.
Top 8 had both K-spam and Y-spam
So, only 1/4 of the lists were heavy on TLT if you don't count Stress Hog, and neither of the TLT-spam lists made the top 4.
Top 16 had:
2 Greys escorting an Ace
Double Ace with TLT Miranda
Grey BTL A4+TLT Spam
So, in here it is 6/16 have a heavy TLT presence of some sort. However, only 3 are really using them as massed turrets.
Top 32 added:
3 Y-spams
A mixed turret Scum with 2 TLT's
2 Aces escorted by double TLT.
Cartel MArauder+3TLT Y's
Here, 10/32 could be counted as massed TLT's. TLT spam was the most common archetype when compared to 5/32 Brobots, 4 Imperial Aces, 5 Ace-and-Fatty, 5 Swarms (TIE and Rebel), and 3 more mixed lists (Including both top lists). However, TLT's did not appear to do better than any other archetype, even given their numbers. In fact, the higher you go in the top 32, the smaller their proportion is.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/29 16:46:34
Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?
A: A Maniraptor |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/30 11:57:33
Subject: Re:Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Executing Exarch
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Wot Crazy dun sayed...
As a big fan of the TLT lists I'm going to say it's fine and costed about right.
It's no doubt strong and I've gone X-1 in the last handful of tournaments I've played at, but the losses came against people who very much knew how to fly against
TLT heavy lists, and whilst Auto-thrusters isn't a total hard counter it's usually enough to come out ahead in the attrition race against TLT as TLT output is very
consistent it isn't very high and the loss of a ship is a serious dent in an already limited damage output
I also think Crazy numbers regarding the Worlds are interesting, I personally think Brobots is a better list than TLT but Brobots is very choice intense, and maybe not
something you'd want to play for 5+ rounds like Worlds, whereas TLT is quite forgiving of mistakes, yeah you could argue this makes it low skill but picking the right
list for the right event might be a skill all of it's own
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/03/30 12:03:10
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/06 23:15:24
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer
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I kind of wish turrets required a focus or some other mechanic that made them slightly less optimal to use vs. primary weapon arcs. Although I've enjoyed using turrets myself, I don't want the game to move away from the importance of manuevering to games where fortressing up is the way to go.
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It never ends well |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/06 23:25:27
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Colonel
This Is Where the Fish Lives
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Stormonu wrote:I kind of wish turrets required a focus or some other mechanic that made them slightly less optimal to use vs. primary weapon arcs. Although I've enjoyed using turrets myself, I don't want the game to move away from the importance of manuevering to games where fortressing up is the way to go.
There already is a turret like that and it sucks, which is why no one uses it.
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d-usa wrote:"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/07 00:02:03
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Huge Hierodule
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ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Stormonu wrote:I kind of wish turrets required a focus or some other mechanic that made them slightly less optimal to use vs. primary weapon arcs. Although I've enjoyed using turrets myself, I don't want the game to move away from the importance of manuevering to games where fortressing up is the way to go.
There already is a turret like that and it sucks, which is why no one uses it.
This. It would be interesting if the TLT required you to spend a focus to take a second shot, but the TLT would be almost as bad as the blaster turret if you needed to spend focus for it.
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Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?
A: A Maniraptor |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/07 14:49:14
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Executing Exarch
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Crazy_Carnifex wrote: ScootyPuffJunior wrote: Stormonu wrote:I kind of wish turrets required a focus or some other mechanic that made them slightly less optimal to use vs. primary weapon arcs. Although I've enjoyed using turrets myself, I don't want the game to move away from the importance of manuevering to games where fortressing up is the way to go.
There already is a turret like that and it sucks, which is why no one uses it.
This. It would be interesting if the TLT required you to spend a focus to take a second shot, but the TLT would be almost as bad as the blaster turret if you needed to spend focus for it.
True, although a turret that did actual damage and had the option of using a Focus for a second shot could be a thing
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/07 14:49:28
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 11:59:59
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Stormonu wrote:I kind of wish turrets required a focus or some other mechanic that made them slightly less optimal to use vs. primary weapon arcs. Although I've enjoyed using turrets myself, I don't want the game to move away from the importance of manuevering to games where fortressing up is the way to go.
It would appear the game is going less towards that and more towards "Perform 3-bank, then focus. Now roll dice".
Seriously, we have a few new people arriving at the store, but it appears TLTs are becoming even more popular. And by that I mean, some guy running 4 of them against a casual player.
Not to mention half of the new wave is made obsolete because TLTs exist. *cough*Mist Hunter*cough*Ghost*cough*
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40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 12:31:05
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Andy Hoare
Norwich,England
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None of these things are made obsolete by the Twin Laser Turret. I will admit they can be nasty in casual play but as learning how to beat them is part of getting good at the game. I'm more concerned about Guidance Chips making high hitpoint low agility ships irrelevant than I am about TLT.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 12:32:55
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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David Clarke wrote:None of these things are made obsolete by the Twin Laser Turret. I will admit they can be nasty in casual play but as learning how to beat them is part of getting good at the game. I'm more concerned about Guidance Chips making high hitpoint low agility ships irrelevant than I am about TLT.
What builds in particular are you afraid of?
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40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 12:53:36
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Fixture of Dakka
Bathing in elitist French expats fumes
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Guidance chips have made ordnance good. For the amount of points you have to invest in ordnance, I would expect it to be good. By good I don't mean auto-take, or auto-win, or even great. You can now build a list with ordnance and not be sniggered at all the time. Just some of the time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 13:13:01
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Mathieu Raymond wrote:Guidance chips have made ordnance good. For the amount of points you have to invest in ordnance, I would expect it to be good. By good I don't mean auto-take, or auto-win, or even great. You can now build a list with ordnance and not be sniggered at all the time. Just some of the time.
Well yeah, Ordnance is now good with them. But it's not super great. It's still not going to make things like B-wings and Y-wings obsolete.
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40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 14:19:09
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Azreal13 wrote:There's a R1 Doughnut hole, ships with turret slots all tend towards low agility, and often low PS in tourney lists, high agility ships still have a reasonable chance of avoiding or mitigating damage, especially with AT, and tankier ships still have a chance to buy time to do something about them thanks to the relatively low damage rate, they're 6 pts a pop. It's a shame so many people have jumped onto a 0 thought, 0 skill list, but I'd say that the TLT is just fine as it stands, and if it really is generating a disproportionate amount of wins, we can expect a nerf or counter in future waves, so it won't be around forever. This is another reason why I like the Dare Devil Elite. I saved this replay of one of my mess-about games on the benchmark app. It's Tycho in an A-Wing, versus Outrider with HLC turret. Sadly, the asteroids don't appear to be in the correct place anymore, so the moves make a little less sense, but I think it's still a good example. I get the A-Wing into range one, and then stay there for 7 turns in the range one blind spot, getting a shot every turn. The Outrider never gets a single shot with the HLC. The Ai isn't too bright, but it is still unpredictable enough... on turn three, I guess wrong where he is going to go, but I'm able to correct with dare devil and still get a range one shot. I think Tycho's Outmanoeuvre was also glitched, so I wasn't getting the negative agility bonus, but the A-Wing still manges to chip him down.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/10 14:20:23
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 14:25:07
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Andy Hoare
Norwich,England
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Shockingly enough the Straight 3 U-Boat Wolfpack, although Headhunter missile swarms rate a close second. They put out enough damage in a turn to kill an 8HP 1AGI ship fairly consistently in a turn, the poor old B-Wing suffers particularly from being an ideal Plasma Torpedo target. TLT was trumpeted as making 1 Agility ships obsolete, and whilst it certainly does a number on expensive tanky aces it is merely incredibly cost efficient at killing generics whilst the platforms that carry it are very vulnerable to being focus fired before they can start chewing through a HP tanking list like 4B1Z. Ordnance at least stacks damage towards Alpha Strike so score their kills fast and decisively before the tanky ship have a chance to get to work. It certainly makes me think twice before fielding those ships in a way that TLT didn't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 17:36:32
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Fixture of Dakka
Bathing in elitist French expats fumes
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So... you're having to think and adapt?
The last thing I want to do is sound patronizing, but how is that bad, again?
I had a nice example last weekend of a list that endures the tides of "new hotness syndrome," the brobots. If you don't put much thought into it, you're going to lose. But I faced a guy who was really good with them (including the perfect angle for a Segnor's Loop between two asteroids) and had put in the hours and the defeats into training with them.
I've been facing casual opponents and I've been winning more than my fair share, and I'll tell you, I was really ill-prepared for tournaments. So losing is actually a great boon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 18:01:15
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Andy Hoare
Norwich,England
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I think that I fly a different list which is how I adapt  It's not bad as I enjoy the evolving challenge, but please don't fall into the "just try harder/play smarter" mindset that many wargamers slip into with a failing list. One of the nicest things about X-Wing is the low overall cost of a viable list makes it very easy to make purchases to vary things up in a way that something like 40k makes impossible within the same budget. And for the record brobots really really hasn't held up to the tides of new hotness all that well they won at UK National's and then proceeded to get consistently trounced at Worlds 2015. Yes people still fly them and I'm sure at lower level events and in casual play(especially against players who haven't flown against them before) they can perform. They just seriously aren't suited to a higher form of war.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 21:01:57
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body
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It isn't that.
Brobots are an incredibly difficult list to fly well, with a punishingly small margin for error. They require a great many decisions each turn, and for the overwhelming majority to be precisely the right one.
In a vacuum, one on one, one off game, I think brobots can beat most, if not all, other lists. The issue arises doing that repeatedly over the course of multiple games and the mental fatigue that induces.
Ironically, it's the organic component that lets brobots down!
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We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ask me about
Barnstaple Slayers Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/10 21:39:39
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Fixture of Dakka
Bathing in elitist French expats fumes
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I got turned off by the "it's not your list, it's you" attitude of Infinity, so I get what you mean.
Making the top 8 isn't what I'd call trounced, but sure!
They stood up to jumpmasters and Ghost/Super Dash combinations pretty well.
I'm curious if we're just going to see a more varied meta, and good flying coming to the fore.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/19 14:44:24
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Fixture of Dakka
Bathing in elitist French expats fumes
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I tried the 4 TLT scum y-wings list last night.
Won, handily, but what a boring game. I can see how those turrets were made to plink away at fat ships. I swore I'd never use that anytime soon.
Team captain told me maybe I should, it would improve my tournament scores. He's a nice guy like that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/05/19 15:17:37
Subject: Thoughts on the Twin-Laser Turret
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Mathieu Raymond wrote:I tried the 4 TLT scum y-wings list last night.
Won, handily, but what a boring game. I can see how those turrets were made to plink away at fat ships. I swore I'd never use that anytime soon.
Team captain told me maybe I should, it would improve my tournament scores. He's a nice guy like that.
Yes, it's boring, takes all the skill out of flying, and worst of all - It works. Thus people will use it.
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40k:
8th Edtion: 9405 pts - Varantekh Dynasty |
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