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So I've written up a homebrew Dark Eldar codex. I've had this posted up at The Dark City for a week now but it's been a little quiet over there recently and would like some more feedback.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/bb4eh38pgmtdz5y/Dark%20Eldar%20for%207th.pdf?dl=0

Basically I've wanted to give back a lot of the cool toys we lost between the 5th and 7th ed codexes and added in some of the stuff from the Haemonculus Covens.

Rebalancing some of the units so that taking the likes of Wyches and Hellions isn't an automatic handicap anymore.

Upping our power level a bit so that the army can stand against the Necrons, Craftworld Eldar, Space Marines and hopefully Tau (who are generally a very hard counter to Dark Eldar) but without the horrible cheese of mass Scattbikes/ Warp Spiders/ Wraithknights or 1000pts of free vehicles.

More options. The army doesn't lack for wargear but the current dex is overly restrictive on who can use what.

No formatons so far. I had intended to have 12, 4 from the Covens supplement (Scalpel Squadron, Dark Artisan, Grotesquerie and Corpsthiefe Claw seem to be the most useful) with 4 each for Kabals and Cults and use them for a Decurion style detachment, but have yet to come up with 8 new formations. I have inculded 3 detachments though specifically for Kabals, Cults and Covens to allow for more themed list building.

1-Dark lance, just a better bright lance, with a better lance rule. Not really balanced
2-either drahzar's ws/bs increased or the archon stats need a decrease.
Everything else looks so/so.

Not a bad job over all.

One suggestion re: the void mine. I might suggest this instead -

R- Str: D AP: 2 Bomb 1, Blast, One Use Only

Though admittedly, the S10 large blast void lances make the Voidraven more attractive already.

I'd also consider adding plasma grenades to Kabalite Warriors, or at least making them a purchasable option.

One more: Hunt From the Shadows for the Kabalite Raiding Party is a little iffy, considering there's already a warlord trait and such for that. How about "During any turn in which Night Fighting is in effect, all units from this detachment have the Preferred Enemy special rule"?

Just noticed the now-AV12-front Ravager, able to take three S10 AP2 large blasts, which it can fire while moving cruising speed. Ow. That's pretty nasty. I think it's actually quite reasonable right up until you include void lances. I'd omit that one, personally, or make it a lesser version that's R48 S10 AP2 Heavy 1, Lance instead.

Reading through it now, will comment as I read.

* Power from pain seems to punish opponents MSU, don't have an opinion on if that's to powerful or not, just an observation.
* Power from pain should only really work against Non-vehicle units. That's how it used to work.
*Fearless and Hatred can be streamlined into Zealot.
* Not a fan of it being army wide. Perhaps put a limit on it,''all units within 12" of a non-vehicle unit destroyed unit gain a token''?
* 6 on combat drugs should force you to re-roll doubles, T5 or Str 5 (6 with Furious charge) is a bit silly.
*Like the warlord traits, master of apotheosis stands out as being extremely good. Perhaps just a standard +1 to his and his units FNP to a maximum of a 4+? Make them work for it.
*Klaive x2 Strength??? Typo? Str 6 Incubi should not be a thing. Klaives are good as they are I feel.
*A lot of AP 5 where it used to be AP -. This seems specifically to screw with un updated codexes.
*Liquifier gun at strength 5 seems like an over buff, it was powerful at strength 4
*I'd like to see the Shredder be more similar to a Warp Spider weapon then a Shurikan cannon due to fluff.
*Large blast on void lance seems off. Lances are meant to be lazers, not explosives. Too indiscreet to be Dark Eldar.
*I'd like to see Strength D on the Mine, it's one of the few weapons in the game to deserve it.
*Clonefield seems hell'a good. Each phase is the operative word, making them more resilient to Witchfires, shooting and combat. Either change to D6 per turn, or reduce it to just the combat phase.
*Love the change to shadow field, exactly what it needed.
*Tormentor helm seems really complicated, to much dice rolling. Just make the Tormentor helm count as assault grenades and defensive grenades goddammit
*Clone field 10 points! Nah nah nah, no.
*Clone field and Shadow field probably shouldn't be able to be used together, Glass cannon is the aim of the game.
*Don't feel like you've captured Vect, He seems to much like a beat stick and I'm not a fan of him using 'generic' relics. Incubus Warsuit? Bs9? It just seems off
*With Malys, again, shattershard seems outta place. Honestly so does the shadowfield, not every important character should have a 2+ invul, just for variety.
*Like that you've brought the Duke back, he is a little expensive though. He used to be a cheap option that helped the army. Now he's just a special Archon instead of a Pirate. Old stat line gave him more character and made him cheaper.
*Str 4 on Lelith feels kinda wrong. Perhaps Shred instead?
*Drazhar with the new Demi-klaive is a monster, I like it.
*Would prefer Hatred then Rage on Incubi, Rage doesn't really fit there fluff.
*Ravager is too cheap to get AV12 front. Reduce to AV 11, might still be too cheap even then.


May sound a bit negative,, but everything I haven't commented on is the stuff that I liked, which was the vast majority of it. I feel you've effectively brought Dark Eldar up to speed, but in certain places have lost a bit of Dark Eldar identity. Clone Field + Shadowfield Archons are to durable. Str 6 Incubi Is to strong. AV 12 Ravager is to well protected.

 Slayer222 wrote:
1-Dark lance, just a better bright lance, with a better lance rule. Not really balanced
2-either drahzar's ws/bs increased or the archon stats need a decrease.
Everything else looks so/so.

Not a bad job over all.

Balanced against what? The Dark Lance is seen as our main anti tank weapon but struggles in that role, I've made it stronger and given it a rule that works against more than just Landraiders.
Drahzar is seen as Ahra, a Phoenix Lord. Giving him better stats than other Phoenix Lords makes no sense. Nerfing Archons to be worse than they already are also makes no sense.
So so how, please be more specific?

jade_angel wrote:
One suggestion re: the void mine. I might suggest this instead -

R- Str: D AP: 2 Bomb 1, Blast, One Use Only

Though admittedly, the S10 large blast void lances make the Voidraven more attractive already.

I'd also consider adding plasma grenades to Kabalite Warriors, or at least making them a purchasable option.

One more: Hunt From the Shadows for the Kabalite Raiding Party is a little iffy, considering there's already a warlord trait and such for that. How about "During any turn in which Night Fighting is in effect, all units from this detachment have the Preferred Enemy special rule"?

Just noticed the now-AV12-front Ravager, able to take three S10 AP2 large blasts, which it can fire while moving cruising speed. Ow. That's pretty nasty. I think it's actually quite reasonable right up until you include void lances. I'd omit that one, personally, or make it a lesser version that's R48 S10 AP2 Heavy 1, Lance instead.

Lots of people have mentioned the Void Mine should be Strength D, I've been a little resistante to it mainly because I've been thinking of creatign a Super Heavy Grav Tank for them with a S D weapon but maybe I should reconsider and make the Mine D.

I'd completely forgotten about the grenades on the Kabalites, thanks will change that.

Good point on the Hunt from the Shadows and nice suggestion, I may use that.

I liked the idea of including Void Lances on the Ravager, just so our best weapon is available to more than just a single flyer. But looking at it it does seem to work better with the current Void Lance rather than my own version. I'll either significantly up the cost or remove them.

 Imateria wrote:

 Slayer222 wrote:
1-Dark lance, just a better bright lance, with a better lance rule. Not really balanced
2-either drahzar's ws/bs increased or the archon stats need a decrease.
Everything else looks so/so.

Not a bad job over all.

Balanced against what? The Dark Lance is seen as our main anti tank weapon but struggles in that role, I've made it stronger and given it a rule that works against more than just Landraiders.
Drahzar is seen as Ahra, a Phoenix Lord. Giving him better stats than other Phoenix Lords makes no sense. Nerfing Archons to be worse than they already are also makes no sense.
So so how, please be more specific?

I agree the comparative stats are a little funky, but I think Drahzar is fine here. As for Darklight, I have an alternative idea. What I don't care for about the current one, is that since a roll of 1 to penetrate isn't an auto-fail, it's just a 1, your S9 Darklight weapons automatically inflict a glance or better against AV12 or less on a hit. Here's what I propose instead:

Blast Pistol
R12 S8 AP2 Pistol, Lance, Darklight

Blaster
R18 S8 AP2 Assault 1, Lance, Darklight

Dark Lance
R36 S8 AP2 Salvo 1/1, Lance, Darklight

Dark Scythe
R36 S8 AP2 Heavy 1, Blast, Lance, Darklight

Darklight: A penetrating hit inflicted by a weapon with this special rule removes an additional hull point, in addition to all the other effects normally caused by the penetrating hit. A successful to-wound roll by a weapon with this special rule causes two wounds, which must be saved separately.

It's still a better brightlance at that point, of course, but DE don't have a lot of other options, while CWE do. (That said, I'd be inclined to make the brightlance AP1 anyway.) I've got half a mind to say that Darklight weapons should have Blind, but that's probably too good. That said, having Blind on the blast pistol might make it worth taking.

Also, for the Shredder - the version you've proposed is pretty good, but maybe a little too good (almost hits no-brainer territory). Maybe this?

Shredder
Focussed: R18 S7 AP- Assault 1, Blast, Monofilament, Pinning
Dispersed: R Template S6 AP- Assault 1, Monofilament, Pinning

The liquifier gun could probably be brought in line by leaving it at S3 but giving it Poisoned (4+).

jade_angel wrote:

 Slayer222 wrote:
One suggestion re: the void mine. I might suggest this instead -

R- Str: D AP: 2 Bomb 1, Blast, One Use Only

Though admittedly, the S10 large blast void lances make the Voidraven more attractive already.

I'd also consider adding plasma grenades to Kabalite Warriors, or at least making them a purchasable option.

One more: Hunt From the Shadows for the Kabalite Raiding Party is a little iffy, considering there's already a warlord trait and such for that. How about "During any turn in which Night Fighting is in effect, all units from this detachment have the Preferred Enemy special rule"?

Just noticed the now-AV12-front Ravager, able to take three S10 AP2 large blasts, which it can fire while moving cruising speed. Ow. That's pretty nasty. I think it's actually quite reasonable right up until you include void lances. I'd omit that one, personally, or make it a lesser version that's R48 S10 AP2 Heavy 1, Lance instead.

Lots of people have mentioned the Void Mine should be Strength D, I've been a little resistante to it mainly because I've been thinking of creatign a Super Heavy Grav Tank for them with a S D weapon but maybe I should reconsider and make the Mine D.

Big catch with the void mine is that it's a one-shot weapon. Making it D isn't terribly broken, if you get one shot, and a superheavy with the ability to fire D every turn would still be a step up.
<snip>

jade_angel wrote:

 Imateria wrote:

 Slayer222 wrote:
1-Dark lance, just a better bright lance, with a better lance rule. Not really balanced
2-either drahzar's ws/bs increased or the archon stats need a decrease.
Everything else looks so/so.

Not a bad job over all.

Balanced against what? The Dark Lance is seen as our main anti tank weapon but struggles in that role, I've made it stronger and given it a rule that works against more than just Landraiders.
Drahzar is seen as Ahra, a Phoenix Lord. Giving him better stats than other Phoenix Lords makes no sense. Nerfing Archons to be worse than they already are also makes no sense.
So so how, please be more specific?

I agree the comparative stats are a little funky, but I think Drahzar is fine here. As for Darklight, I have an alternative idea. What I don't care for about the current one, is that since a roll of 1 to penetrate isn't an auto-fail, it's just a 1, your S9 Darklight weapons automatically inflict a glance or better against AV12 or less on a hit. Here's what I propose instead:

Blast Pistol
R12 S8 AP2 Pistol, Lance, Darklight

Blaster
R18 S8 AP2 Assault 1, Lance, Darklight

Dark Lance
R36 S8 AP2 Salvo 1/1, Lance, Darklight

Dark Scythe
R36 S8 AP2 Heavy 1, Blast, Lance, Darklight

Darklight: A penetrating hit inflicted by a weapon with this special rule removes an additional hull point, in addition to all the other effects normally caused by the penetrating hit. A successful to-wound roll by a weapon with this special rule causes two wounds, which must be saved separately.

It's still a better brightlance at that point, of course, but DE don't have a lot of other options, while CWE do. (That said, I'd be inclined to make the brightlance AP1 anyway.) I've got half a mind to say that Darklight weapons should have Blind, but that's probably too good. That said, having Blind on the blast pistol might make it worth taking.

Also, for the Shredder - the version you've proposed is pretty good, but maybe a little too good (almost hits no-brainer territory). Maybe this?

Shredder
Focussed: R18 S7 AP- Assault 1, Blast, Monofilament, Pinning
Dispersed: R Template S6 AP- Assault 1, Monofilament, Pinning

The liquifier gun could probably be brought in line by leaving it at S3 but giving it Poisoned (4+).

Honestly I'd consider that a very minor improvement to Dark Lances and still leaves us with our main anti-tank weapon struggling because anything with AV12 or better still needs a 5 to pen. I can see why Darklight weapons might have blind but that would only really be usefull on a Blaster and Blast Pistol. Salvo 1/1? Is that a joke? Dark Scythes are still useless.

I think moving the Shredder to S7 is getting into anti-armour territory but not bad suggestions. I think I still prefer mine, mainly because with a Blast template I'd pretty much only ever run them on Trueborn.

I was aiming to have the Liquifier Gun take the role of the Heavy Flamer, hence the S5, will probaly have to change it from Assault 1 to Heavy 1 to make it work out like that. Between the Medusae, Cronos and the new Shredder DE would be well served with template weapons.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Reading through it now, will comment as I read.

* Power from pain seems to punish opponents MSU, don't have an opinion on if that's to powerful or not, just an observation.
* Power from pain should only really work against Non-vehicle units. That's how it used to work.
*Fearless and Hatred can be streamlined into Zealot.
* Not a fan of it being army wide. Perhaps put a limit on it,''all units within 12" of a non-vehicle unit destroyed unit gain a token''?
* 6 on combat drugs should force you to re-roll doubles, T5 or Str 5 (6 with Furious charge) is a bit silly.
*Like the warlord traits, master of apotheosis stands out as being extremely good. Perhaps just a standard +1 to his and his units FNP to a maximum of a 4+? Make them work for it.
*Klaive x2 Strength??? Typo? Str 6 Incubi should not be a thing. Klaives are good as they are I feel.
*A lot of AP 5 where it used to be AP -. This seems specifically to screw with un updated codexes.
*Liquifier gun at strength 5 seems like an over buff, it was powerful at strength 4
*I'd like to see the Shredder be more similar to a Warp Spider weapon then a Shurikan cannon due to fluff.
*Large blast on void lance seems off. Lances are meant to be lazers, not explosives. Too indiscreet to be Dark Eldar.
*I'd like to see Strength D on the Mine, it's one of the few weapons in the game to deserve it.
*Clonefield seems hell'a good. Each phase is the operative word, making them more resilient to Witchfires, shooting and combat. Either change to D6 per turn, or reduce it to just the combat phase.
*Love the change to shadow field, exactly what it needed.
*Tormentor helm seems really complicated, to much dice rolling. Just make the Tormentor helm count as assault grenades and defensive grenades goddammit
*Clone field 10 points! Nah nah nah, no.
*Clone field and Shadow field probably shouldn't be able to be used together, Glass cannon is the aim of the game.
*Don't feel like you've captured Vect, He seems to much like a beat stick and I'm not a fan of him using 'generic' relics. Incubus Warsuit? Bs9? It just seems off
*With Malys, again, shattershard seems outta place. Honestly so does the shadowfield, not every important character should have a 2+ invul, just for variety.
*Like that you've brought the Duke back, he is a little expensive though. He used to be a cheap option that helped the army. Now he's just a special Archon instead of a Pirate. Old stat line gave him more character and made him cheaper.
*Str 4 on Lelith feels kinda wrong. Perhaps Shred instead?
*Drazhar with the new Demi-klaive is a monster, I like it.
*Would prefer Hatred then Rage on Incubi, Rage doesn't really fit there fluff.
*Ravager is too cheap to get AV12 front. Reduce to AV 11, might still be too cheap even then.


May sound a bit negative,, but everything I haven't commented on is the stuff that I liked, which was the vast majority of it. I feel you've effectively brought Dark Eldar up to speed, but in certain places have lost a bit of Dark Eldar identity. Clone Field + Shadowfield Archons are to durable. Str 6 Incubi Is to strong. AV 12 Ravager is to well protected.

Power from Pain is a bit of a pain. In it's current form of going up per turn it doesnt really reflect the fluff of how DE get stronger through a battle, but in it's old form it wasn't much of a force booster and required extra book keeping. I tried to blend the two together but the problem then becomes balance between MSU and elite armies. I'm not sure it's actually possible to balance them since some armies can have only 5 units and less than 30 models at 2K points whilst others have 150+ and 20 units at the same point value. I think my current set up is a nice compromise but not perfect.

Having PfP only work against non-infantry units would seriously compromises us against mech heavy lists.

Will change the PfP list to use Zealot, it does make a lot of sense given they already use it for the Covens list.

See my first coment regarding it being army wide, I never played with the old codex but just looking at the way PfP works I prefer the current dex's set up.

Good point with the combat drugs. I just copied that straight from the Doom of Mymeara, and either missed the re-roll doubles or it's not there either.

MoA is pretty good, copied straight from the Covens dex though where everything has FnP as standard. A good spot for a tweek there.

Why is it fine for other armies to have weapons like Power Fists, War Scythes and Power Claws but not DE? Klaives are not fine as they are, the took a notable nurf with the current codex and needed to be buffed again.

The Voidraven is the main user of the Void Lance and I don't really want that flyer to be used as an anti flyer or there will never be a need to take the Razorwing. Making the Void Lance blast helps to keep the roles of the two flyers separate.

I felt we had too much AP-, maybe change a few to AP6 instead.

As mentioned in my previous post I intended the Liquifier Gun to have a Heavy Flamer role.

Yeah, kind of makes sense that with the Shredder.

The Clonefield is pretty much taken straight from the 5th ed codex, I think I tweeked it to work per phase but that might be a bit too much so moving back to per turn sounds good, as does a points increase.

The Tormentor Helm was meant to be a fluffy way to get around Assault Grenades. Maybe I can tweek it to be something simpler that works like Assault Grenades.

Vect is not at all easy to capture. Those stats are lifted from the old codex (though I might have boosted his BS by 1) and as arguably the most powerful person in the galaxy it makes perfect sense for him to have access to the best equipment available, so giving him an Incubus Warsuit isn't that big of a stretch. I can see what you mean about the "generic relics". The problem with Vect is his special rules, it's very difficult to make him feel like Vect without completely screwing over your opponent and making playing against him anything but a chore.

Malys is the one other character that really deserves the 2+ invuln, she's set up as the one person that can challenge Vect. She might not need the Shattershard though given the Crystal Heart and Sword.

I thought it was strange he didn't have Archon stats before. It makes a lot of sense for him to be the Archon of a Kabal that specialises in Corsair piracy and raiding and so opperates a large Corsair fleet. He is a bit more expensive now but with the rules I gave him he has the potential to be a very useful force multiplier.

S4 was the best thing I could think of with Lelith. She doesnt take drugs and only uses two knives and blades in her hair for weapons so the only thing she can gain a strength boost from is Furious Charge, and beign S3 is her biggest weakn ess. Plus, if shes your warlord in a unit of Incubi using Tormentor Helms she can potentially gain 19 attacks on the charge, I think giving her shred on all those attacks might be a bit much!

Fluff wise I think both Rage and Hatred would fit for Incubi. I went with Rage because Hatred was already set as part of the PfP table.

I have to disagree, I don't think AV12 is that big of a deal, particularly given how the shape of the Raider and Ravager means they'll be taking more hits on the side rather than the front. It gives people a slightly better chance when deciding not to jink to keep their shooting, which is what you want the Ravager to be doing. As for the price, I can only see people running it at 95pts with Disintegrators, or more likely 105 with Nightshields, when facing a TEQ heavy list. 120pts would be the more usual cost and that seems fair given the current meta doesnt favour tanks. It might need a cost increase but probably by no more than 10pts.

I think I agree with you on the Shadow Field + Clone Field being too durable, thats another change to make.

PFP only coming into effect off of Non-vehicle suggestion is purely a flavour decision. It just doesn't make sense for exploding a dreadnaught or Ork Trukk to saturate the *entire* battle field with enough pain to invigorate the Dark Eldar. Buffing PFP as it is now is necessary and opponents won't mind in the slightest as long as the new rules are within the flavour of the army, it's only when you have to stretch peoples suspension of disbelief that people will become skeptic of Homebrew rules.

Power Klaws and Power fists are not comparable to a Klaive because a Klaive strikes at Initiative. A Warscythe strikes at Initative but it's balanced by the Necrons themselves being I2. The only weapon comparable to your incarnation of the Klaive is the Scorpion Claw with the same statline but it's only available to the Striking Scorpion Exarch (making him the only AP 2 thing in the unit). High Ws, High I and Str 6 (7 with furious charge, probably with Hatred) with 2 attacks (4 on the charge) each is CRAZY, even for the heft price tag of 30pts a model. Klaives are currently one of the few weapons in the game with AP 2 at initiative, how do you beleive that have been nerfed? I use Incubi to great success personally, small units of 4+Klaivex in a Venom as a counter assault unit. I don't mind the Demi-Klaive being Sx2 because when clasped fluff-wise it's bigger than a normal Klaive. Incubi as they are now but with Rage, Assault Grenades and access to your PFP would be a really good unit for 20pts each.

Perhaps you could include 2 types of Liquifier? One for Wracks and the Haemonculus to use at Str 4 AP d6 and a stronger version for Grotesques and the Talos at Str 5 Ap D6-1? Would give some differentiation between the Big thigns and the small things considering fluff-wise the Liquifier is fired the bearers own acidic blood, it'd make sense for a bigger model to have more blood.

As for Vect, we can agree to disagree here. Every body (myself included) who has converted a Vect will not have converted him with Incubi armour because Vect is not a part of the Incubi temple. Wealthy Archons wear Ghostplate armour in the fluff, so that;s what he should wear to me. He used to be Bs 8, theres not much difference between 8 and 9, it just makes the statline look a little funny. Just a possible idea to make him feel more like Vect, lose Eternal Warrior and gain a unique Special rule that after he loses his last wound on a 2+ instead of Dying he pops up in another unengaged Dark Eldar unit anywhere on the board with his Shadowfield reactivated and 1 wound remaining. In Path of the Archon Vect is shown to make use of a perfect Body double called the Geldling which is exactly the same as him but lacks his Soul. The fluff behind this would be that Vect would NEVER put himself in mortal danger, so he uses the Geldling during dangerous missions. Just a fluffy alternative to Eternal Warrior.

The Duke never was an Archon. He was a noble born Dark Eldar (probably a Dracon or something) that got bored with life and decided to steal the flag ships of some warring Archons and begin a life of Piracy. Sliscus isn't an Archon, he's a drug lord and a pirate. That's why his stats where lower then that of an Archon.

Str 4 vs Shred is minimul difference in almost all circumstances. Shred makes her better vs T6 (like the Carnifexes that in the Area she's meant to eat for breakfast) while Str 4 makes her better against vehicles. I personally see her as more of a Monster killer but that's just me.

But look at the Ravager, the model itself just doesn't look like it should have AV12. You could get away with 11 on all sides but 12 just looks off to me.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
PFP only coming into effect off of Non-vehicle suggestion is purely a flavour decision. It just doesn't make sense for exploding a dreadnaught or Ork Trukk to saturate the *entire* battle field with enough pain to invigorate the Dark Eldar. Buffing PFP as it is now is necessary and opponents won't mind in the slightest as long as the new rules are within the flavour of the army, it's only when you have to stretch peoples suspension of disbelief that people will become skeptic of Homebrew rules.

Power Klaws and Power fists are not comparable to a Klaive because a Klaive strikes at Initiative. A Warscythe strikes at Initative but it's balanced by the Necrons themselves being I2. The only weapon comparable to your incarnation of the Klaive is the Scorpion Claw with the same statline but it's only available to the Striking Scorpion Exarch (making him the only AP 2 thing in the unit). High Ws, High I and Str 6 (7 with furious charge, probably with Hatred) with 2 attacks (4 on the charge) each is CRAZY, even for the heft price tag of 30pts a model. Klaives are currently one of the few weapons in the game with AP 2 at initiative, how do you beleive that have been nerfed? I use Incubi to great success personally, small units of 4+Klaivex in a Venom as a counter assault unit. I don't mind the Demi-Klaive being Sx2 because when clasped fluff-wise it's bigger than a normal Klaive. Incubi as they are now but with Rage, Assault Grenades and access to your PFP would be a really good unit for 20pts each.

Perhaps you could include 2 types of Liquifier? One for Wracks and the Haemonculus to use at Str 4 AP d6 and a stronger version for Grotesques and the Talos at Str 5 Ap D6-1? Would give some differentiation between the Big thigns and the small things considering fluff-wise the Liquifier is fired the bearers own acidic blood, it'd make sense for a bigger model to have more blood.

As for Vect, we can agree to disagree here. Every body (myself included) who has converted a Vect will not have converted him with Incubi armour because Vect is not a part of the Incubi temple. Wealthy Archons wear Ghostplate armour in the fluff, so that;s what he should wear to me. He used to be Bs 8, theres not much difference between 8 and 9, it just makes the statline look a little funny. Just a possible idea to make him feel more like Vect, lose Eternal Warrior and gain a unique Special rule that after he loses his last wound on a 2+ instead of Dying he pops up in another unengaged Dark Eldar unit anywhere on the board with his Shadowfield reactivated and 1 wound remaining. In Path of the Archon Vect is shown to make use of a perfect Body double called the Geldling which is exactly the same as him but lacks his Soul. The fluff behind this would be that Vect would NEVER put himself in mortal danger, so he uses the Geldling during dangerous missions. Just a fluffy alternative to Eternal Warrior.

The Duke never was an Archon. He was a noble born Dark Eldar (probably a Dracon or something) that got bored with life and decided to steal the flag ships of some warring Archons and begin a life of Piracy. Sliscus isn't an Archon, he's a drug lord and a pirate. That's why his stats where lower then that of an Archon.

Str 4 vs Shred is minimul difference in almost all circumstances. Shred makes her better vs T6 (like the Carnifexes that in the Area she's meant to eat for breakfast) while Str 4 makes her better against vehicles. I personally see her as more of a Monster killer but that's just me.

But look at the Ravager, the model itself just doesn't look like it should have AV12. You could get away with 11 on all sides but 12 just looks off to me.

I largely agree with you there for PFP, I'm going to keep it as is for game mechanic reasons, to avoid the army having a notable weakness against a certain type of lsit (something I very much would want to avoid). Fluff wise you'd just imagine it as the Dark Eldar going after the crew of vehicles.

I get great milage out of Incubi at the moment as well but I find they really struggle against T5 and above. Klaives used to be +2S, maybe I should go back to that and as you suggest leave the Demiklaives at x2.

Nice idea there for Liquifier Guns, I think I might use that.

A good idea there with Vect.

Kind of sounds like he became an Archon in all but name the same way any other Dracon did, taking it for themselves.

 Imateria wrote:

jade_angel wrote:

 Imateria wrote:


Honestly I'd consider that a very minor improvement to Dark Lances and still leaves us with our main anti-tank weapon struggling because anything with AV12 or better still needs a 5 to pen. I can see why Darklight weapons might have blind but that would only really be usefull on a Blaster and Blast Pistol. Salvo 1/1? Is that a joke? Dark Scythes are still useless.

I think moving the Shredder to S7 is getting into anti-armour territory but not bad suggestions. I think I still prefer mine, mainly because with a Blast template I'd pretty much only ever run them on Trueborn.

I was aiming to have the Liquifier Gun take the role of the Heavy Flamer, hence the S5, will probaly have to change it from Assault 1 to Heavy 1 to make it work out like that. Between the Medusae, Cronos and the new Shredder DE would be well served with template weapons.

Hm, OK, you have a point there. What about keeping the increase to S9, but using my version of Darklight instead? I think the 36" range should probably stay, so as to not make the dark lance strictly superior to the lascannon. A weapon that's just better in all cases should usually cost more, and dark lances don't (nor should they, really, it's hard to get enough as it is).

My reasoning for Salvo 1/1 instead of Heavy 1, is that you could now take dark lances on Warriors/Trueborn and not have to sit still to shoot. If you move, the dark lance acts like another blaster (except that you can't charge). I envision Dark Eldar as hardly ever having to slow down - it's not so much that they're blindingly fast compared to their Craftworld kin, as that everything they do in battle, they do on the move. (While Craftworlders will actually have units that want to sit still) I think this would support that. I suppose you could argue for Assault 1 instead, though.

As for the dark scythe: I'm actually not sure what it's supposed to be doing. The default version seems to want to go after elite infantry or maybe blobs, but small blasts never seem to do that very well in practice. Your version seems more like a fast-firing dark lance. I'm really not sure what to do here, but then, in part that's because I think both the Razorwing and the Voidraven are confused. The Razorwing is actually pretty good at bombing infantry and only a so-so air-to-air fighter while the Voidraven is a surprisingly good fighter and not that much better at bombing than the Razorwing.

Here's a half-formed idea I had:

Monoscythe Missile: R48 S4 AP5, Assault 1, Large Blast, Rending, One Use Only
Necrotoxin Missile: R48 S1 AP-, Assault 1, Large Blast, Fleshbane, Ignores Cover, One Use Only
Shatterfield Missile: R48 S7 AP-, Assault 1, Large Blast, Shred, One Use Only
Skylance Missile: R48 S8 AP2, Assault 1, Skyfire, Tank Hunter, One Use Only
Implosion Missile: R48 S10 AP2, Assault 1, Instant Death, One Use Only (massively expensive)

Then, give the Razorwing Vector Dancer while the Voidraven gets a hover mode, let the Razorwing take a rapid-cycle dark lance type weapon (like your proposed dark scythe), Monoscythe, Skylance and Shatterfield missiles, while the Voidraven gets all the missile types except Skylance, and would also get a weapon that could sub in for the void lance that's useful for ground bombardment (like the stock dark scythe, or your proposed void lance), but would still have a non-blast gun option that would give it some pinch air-to-air capability. Also, give both of them Missile Lock.

S7 on the Shredder does give it some hail-mary antitank capability, but I'm generally OK with that: it just becomes somewhat like the Imperial plasma cannon in that regard. (Though plasma cannons do have AP2, which helps a lot...) I do see your point about blasts, though. I agree that muffin-tin blasts are often underwhelming, and totally whiff just a little more often than I'd like. The catch is not making the shredder a must-take upgrade (kinda like the grav gun became for SM - always take it unless you really need melta/flamer for some reason). "Powerful" is fine, "obviously the best" is an internal balance issue (and making it much more expensive has the opposite problem of making it a never-take).

It strikes me that a liquifier gun with Poisoned (4+), but AP3, is pretty close, tactically, to a heavy flamer. It's not quite as good against things like gaunts, but much better against Space Marines, Necrons and their ilk. In fact, it's one giant "take THAT!" aimed directly at SM and Chaos (and some CWE). That said, Poisoned does have the same problem it has on splinter weapons: it sucks against low Toughness. To me, that's where the Shredder gets to shine as a monofilament template. And don't forget that heavy flamers are, themselves, Assault 1, so there's no need to slow down liquifier-equipped units. (This would just make Wracks and Grotesques really not want to take them, while Taloi wouldn't even notice.)