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Hi guys,

Decided to get back into 40k, used to play Epic many years ago, built a 40k Eldar army but never got around to playing it so i've got a lot of studying of the rule book to do!

I had initially decided to go for BA but after a good bit of research decided against and have chosen to run with the wolves! A-ooo!

Looking for help / advice for structure.

I've chosen to go with a Blackmane formation. Running with free pods imo is a distinct advantage, 1 for getting BC's up close and personal, 2 for getting GH into midfield for obsec and fire support for BC's.

I'm planning to run 2x BC packs with Ragnar & Ulrik up front, will probably bump these two to 7 man BC's. Third BC i'll keep at 5 man and test using them ahead of Ragnar or Ulrik to bait / setup counter charge.

GH i'll drop midfield to secure objectives with a rune priest in each. (x4). This should keep them away from CC, hopefully not far away from being in range for shooting. The priests should hopefully do some damage to heavy units and give opposing player something to worry about / distract from the BC's.

Long fangs mandatory, i've only put one squad in so far but tempted to take 2 for reasonable hard hitting shooters.

Scouts with camo/sniper rifles. I'll probably keep these mid/rear in cover to hold obj.

Wolf guard i've kept non term so they can go in a pod. Not sure where i'll field them....



Points for the below is sitting at 1340 although i'm not sure i've i've allocated the correct amount of points for the BC's / GH's.

This leaves room to upgrade pack leaders to term, squad upgrades, priests to ML2. Im not sure if making pack leaders term means they can't go in pods? Same with priests.

Additional units i'm thinking about maybe ditching a squad of GH and replacing with x2 LS for additional heavy weapons with the bonus of good mobility. Wolfen are an option as well but would only be 1 pack and i'm not sure if i can pod them,

Local GW usually plays 1500-2000. If fielding a 2k force i'd for sure add wolfen or a dread.

Thoughts / advice most welcome!

··The Blackmanes [Ragnar Blackmane, the Young King] 195

Ulrik 145

····Blood Claws 70
······4x Blood Claw [4x Bolt Pistol, 3x Chainsword, Flamer]
······Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
······Wolf Guard Pack Leader [Chainsword, Combi Flamer]

····Blood Claws 70
······4x Blood Claw [4x Bolt Pistol, 3x Chainsword, Flamer]
······Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
······Wolf Guard Pack Leader [Chainsword, Combi Flamer]

····Blood Claws 70
······4x Blood Claw [4x Bolt Pistol, 3x Chainsword, Flamer]
······Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
······Wolf Guard Pack Leader [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword]

····Grey Hunters 80
······Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
······4x Grey Hunter [4x Bolt Pistol, 3x Bolter, Meltagun]
······Wolf Guard Pack Leader [Chainsword, Combi Melta]

····Grey Hunters 80
······Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
······4x Grey Hunter [4x Bolt Pistol, 3x Bolter, Meltagun]
······Wolf Guard Pack Leader [Chainsword, Combi Melta]

····Grey Hunters 70
······Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
······5x Grey Hunter [5x Bolt Pistol, 4x Bolter, Meltagun]

····Grey Hunters 70
······Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
······5x Grey Hunter [5x Bolt Pistol, 4x Bolter, Meltagun]

····Long Fangs [Long Fang] 75
······Long Fang Ancient [Bolt Pistol, Meltagun]

····Wolf Guard 90
······Drop Pod [Storm Bolter]
······4x Wolf Guard [4x Chainsword, 4x Combi Melta]
······Wolf Guard Pack Leader [Chainsword, Combi Melta]

····Wolf Scouts [Camo Cloaks for Wolf Scouts] 85
······5x Wolf Scout [5x Bolt Pistol, 4x Bolter, Flamer]

Wyrdstrom Brotherhood
4x Rune Priest 240

You're spending 145pts on 1 model via Ulrk, way pricey for preferred enemy, IMO - they'll be what people shoot first I'm thinking =\ but that 6" bubble can make your meltas do so much work, especially the wolf guard...

I would definitely think on including a thunderwolf cavalry unit, they are SOOOO mean!

Bloodclaws with flamers, awesome. 5pts is great for in your face templates, but spending another 15pts for a one-use flamer?

For 1pt a sniper, they seem so much better than bolters, and camo makes them so hard to shoot down. IMO a missile launcher goes well with them.

Long Fangs may be the best Devastator squads in the game, but I too prefer not to load them up on pts...

You have the option for throwing more wolf guard in, I'd do that, take it to like 7 to be certain you're really going to destroy something particularly heavy. @28pts a pop tho it's a real decision.

Having each rune priest join a pod is nice, great LD10 and CC. The psyker power throwing 5d6 shots, oh yeah!

You're looking at around 27 pts per model currently... not terrible but well rounded too.

question tho on Ulrik, how are you getting him in there w/o going unbound?

Ulrik is a Lord of the Fang choice which can be taken on it's own.

As to the list, it looks pretty good but you're lacking any real punch in the list and lack of ObSec means opponents like scat bikes and battle company will be able to grind you down on objectives.

I disagree on including TWC in a Blackmanes list. They will be the sole focus of your enemy if you don't get first turn and will likely die unsupported.

Indeed, rules state 0-5 command, 1+ core, 1+ aux.

Even though you'd assume Ragnar would be top dog you can take Canis/Ulrik/Bjorn/Njal/Logan/Arjac as command with Lord of the Fang.

Ulrik is expensive but imo a worthy addition. The BC's need to hit hard (read - as much dmg as possible before they die) and if i only fielded Ragnar he would surely draw all initial fire. Ulrik will take some of the heat away and makes his squad rather epic. Open to other suggestions though!

I'm tempted to upgrade the 2 main BC units pack leaders to term. Reasoning being getting some heavier weaponry in and giving opposing player something to focus on apart from Ragnar/Ulrik. Question is though, can they still go in pods with pack leader in term?

Yep, TWC i'm on the same thinking as wulfen. Nice on paper but potentially wasted points, like a dread dropped up front. I'd rather spend points on overall force strength than bullet catchers. They have their use but i'm not convinced they'll fit in with the setup / style of play i'm aiming for.

Wolf Guard - yeah, bloody expensive. Still undecided what to do with them but don't want to spend points on them.

Open to suggestions on alternative to flamers for BC's. Did have a good look through the rule book but struggled to find a definitive special weapons list. (free upgrade).

With regards to ObSec, i'll need to go read up. I'm sure i skimmed over a thread the other day about using rhino's for obsec. They're cheap and i could maybe take a pair with a lone wolf term in each.... Suggestions welcome here also.

Pack Leaders in Termie armor can indeed go into a pod but they count as two models doing so. The heaviest weapon you can give them is a combi-weapon of some sort since the assault cannon, heavy flamer and cyclone are limited to the actual TDAWG packs. You'll notice in the entry for the upgrade in GH/BC packs that they may only select weapons from the terminator weapons list which are listed on pg 47 of C:SW.

For your Wolf Guard you can run them effectively in a couple of configurations in this type of list. They will be a suicide squad either way but can delete a target when they land and make their points up. 5 WG, all with combi-weapons in a pod or 3-5 terminators with a couple of storm shields and combi-weapons deeps striking in. I prefer the WG in a pod since I can saturate the table with more units and pods on T1.

If you're running a pure Blackmanes list there is no way to get ObSec in the list. You'd need to take an additional Combined Arms Detachment to access ObSec. It's a quirky thing in this edition and you'd think with the high troop tax we'd have it but, we don't within the formations.

Flamers are good on the BCs. You want them close to the enemy to restrict movement and block off routes to your more important units. Plus the flamer is great for forcing lots of saves on scat bikes and burning pathfinders and scouts out of cover. Special weapons are listed on pg 47 of C:SW but they aren't free. The only freebies you get with Blackmanes are the pods themselves which is pretty good when taken in large numbers.

Ulrik is a good force multiplier in the right list. I'd usually field him with a full plasma squad or with Long Fangs so you can access his excellent buffs. In a BM list he's not as useful since you'll be spread out over a lot of the board. I'd consider dropping him altogether.

Lots of good info guys, thanks.

Back to basics, ObSec. Seems to be pretty important! Legendary Greatpack regardless of which one, now seems like the wrong route to go down and now i get the whole 'tax' thing with amount of units required. All those GH units i'd want in a CAD for ObSec, sound about right? Running a Legendary Greatpack now imo means maximum kills, basically wipe the enemy off the table so they can't scoot round the table grabbing all the objectives. That seems like a very specific force and will only win once in a blue moon. Would also probably mean no extra units and bulking up squads to hold Obj by strength in numbers?

I've just spent the last hour reading up on detachments and formations, my mind has been melted...

Gist of it i'm getting, unless counter charge is a priority then WCSF isn't ideal. To run battle forged i'll need primary (1 hq, 2 troops) then a combined arms (1 hq, 2 troops)? So from looking at detachment options its either unleashed or CotGW.

It seems like GW have stuck the knife in on this one. Unleashed has outflank and 2x troop which is ideal for death pack (+transport for GH, rzr?) but dips out on +1WS of CotGW which is aimed at TWC.

CotGW has +1WS but for some slowed reason is 2 elites. So thats TWC & GH plus additional 2x elite. Cheapest route is LW but they don't have dedicated transport as far as i can make out. 2 packs of Wulfen might be good but would have to foot slog it and cost. And why GH in the death pack when WG would have been way better suited and not waste the +1WS. Seems like 90% of the rules/formations are totally pointless. Would using Harrald as HQ just give him outflank or him and TWC?

Flanking force would have been good, although expensive (circa 800pts) but apocalypse only?

Think i'll move to tactics section to re-evaluate before making a new list!

My friend plays wolves and his strat has been pretty hard hitting. Deploy forward with 2 wulfen squads and 1 TWC squad. They rush the front and assault 1st turn nearly every time with the TWC and move bonus. Since all drop pods come in 1st turn with his formation he shoots the crap out of high value targets. Then locks the opponent up during his own turn with the counter charge rule. Ive seen him table armies in 2 turns and its quite funny.

Using Blackmane?

The Blackmanes can win a lot of games but you typically have to play smart and not ask your list to do things that it can't accomplish. It's a finesse list. When you're dropping 6-13 pods, depending on your design, you can dictate where an opponent can and can't go without first dealing with those pods. I played a game against a 3 IK list today and used my pods to hem his knights in while my troops killed his ObSec bike squads and took objectives. It was still a close fight but I won 8-5 by essentially wasting his first turn due to null deployment and then making his knights spend a turn trying to get past my pods so he could stomp stuff. His shooting still had a pretty good effect but I kept him away from objectives by sacrificing units to slow them once they got past the pods.

I'm not a fan of mixing a ground element in with the Blackmanes. If you don't get first turn against lists like Tau, Eldar or even Battle Company the chances are you're going to have those units blown off the table.

Building lists in 7ed is a bit tricky but it'll come with time and practice.

Yeah, original intention was to maximise pods and pod every unit fielded. The whole non ObSec thing is now in the back of my mind.

I'm tempted to setup with both options available, CotGW with CAD / Blackmanes, but due to pod cost the latter aint exactly cheap. Think i'll go study all the tactics threads.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crouching, are you Wulfgar over on B&CS? Great read, although it's totally made my mind up to run WUD/CotGW with CAD for ObSec.

Annoying Wyrdstrom would be classed as it's own formation, would have like to have attached these guys to GH in CAD.

Ok, totally redone and spent an age creating this. I'm sure there's room for tweaks so feel free to make suggestions!

Total points - 1847.

+++CotGW+++ - 618pts

HQ - Harald Deathwolf - 190pts

Elite 1 - Wolf Scouts x5 - x5 Camo Cloak, x4 Sniper Rifle, x1 Missile Launcher+Flak - 99pts

Elite 2 - Wolf Scouts x5 - x5 Camo Cloak, x4 Sniper Rifle, x1 Missile Launcher+Flak - 99pts

FA 1 - Thunderwolf Cavalry x4 - x4 Storm Shield, x1 Wolf Claw - 230pts


+++CAD+++ - 864pts

HQ - Ulrik the Slayer - 145pts

Troop 1 - Grey Hunters, x7 - x1 Melta, x7 CCW - 122pts

Troop 2 - Grey Hunters, x7 - x1 WGPL, x1 Melta, x7 CCW - 132pts

Troop 3 - Grey Hunters, x5 - x1 Plasma - 85pts

Troop 4 - Grey Hunters, x5 - x1 Plasma - 85pts

FA 1 - Land Speeder x3 - Heavy Bolter & Typhoon - 225pts

FA 2 - Rhino x1 - 35pts

FA 3 - Rhino x1 - 35pts


+++CotW+++ - 365pts


Wyrdstorm Brotherhood - Rune Priest ML2 x3, x3 Psychic Hood, x1 Helm of Durfast, x3 Bikes - 365pts


I'm tempted to drop one LS though. Don't need the +6" bonus and with 78pts spare I can move scouts to CAD to gain ObSec (+1WS pointless for them), use x2 servs as elite tax and have 58pts spare to boost the two main GH units to 9 man squads.

Still undecided about CotGW. Might be better off using death pack and find pts for 5 man naked GH.

The scouts will not gain ObSec by moving them into a CAD. They are an elite choice in the SW codex. Scouts do not benefot from the +1WS boost from CotGW either. Only WG, TDAWG and TWC get that bonus. Why the odd numbers on your GH packs? You'll want them to either be 5 strong with a special weapon or 10 strong to get the second special weapon. The Deathpack is pretty good, especially when combined with Wulfen for that T1 charge. You should also look at including at least one power fist in your TWC for that awesome S10.

CAD has 0-3 Elite slots which the scouts can occupy giving them ObSec, no? This should help try and secure midfield whilst GH move up in Rhino's. That would be the plan anyway.

One GH unit wouldn't be 10 anyway, i want to attach Ulrik to one and have him catch a ride in a Rhino instead of footslogging on his own.

Making them 7 gives them a bit more strength over 5 man units and takes better advantage of Ulriks preferred enemy for his attached unit. 9 would be max efficiency for them.

Pretty much 100% set on using TWC under CotGW now. +1WS for them should make a big difference, I don't plan to charge them into the face of the enemy T1 (hoping LS/Scouts/Priests can do a little damage early 1st) and Deathpack re-roll of 1's will probably only benefit one GH unit as the other will have Ulrik with preferred.

PF might well be worth taking as i'll use TWC against the big stuff, possibly in outflank thanks to Harald.

Sound alright?

Doug2507 wrote:
CAD has 0-3 Elite slots which the scouts can occupy giving them ObSec, no?

No, it doesn't work that way. Read page 122 of the rule book and it will explain how you get ObSec in a CAD. BAsically, troops are the only thing that gets ObSec in a CAD unless there is a special rule that states otherwise.

If your talking about max efficiency then you either run GH in 5 or 10. But play as you like.

The Deathpack special rule only works for the GH pack that you buy as a part of that formation. It doesn't transfer to all of your GH packs.

The TWC in a CotGW is the best way to field them. A PF is always a good idea. There are few times when I would want to outflank with TWC though as you can't charge when you arrive from outflank so your opponent will have a turn to either shoot the crap out them or move out of their threat range.