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Thanks, I actually felt really good about those victories

Normal assault marines get really underestimated. In the last game I played them, I had a 20 man squad, with combat shields, two power axes, two power swords, a sergeant with a power fist, and a librarian with a force stave and biomancy casting endurance on them every turn. Even when they were getting nailed by power weapons they only had a 33% chance of dying, and a 16% chance against normal weapons. Combined with the blood angel rule for +1 to wound in melee, meaning against the marines they were fighting, every hit was wounding on 2+ or 3+. That makes a HUGE difference over time. The game turned into a huge melee cluster, and my normal assault marines fighting against a combination of tactical marines armed for close combat and reavers lead by garviel loken. My assault marines easily killed double their number and won me the game.

That stated, it's a 550 point squad, so the idea of fielding two of those just so I can use that blood angel doctrine is all, whelp, there goes over 50% of my army :/


But yeah! Looking forward to the new book and any info at warhammer fest. Def think breachers could use the point drop. The fact that they go from 22.5pts per guy at the 10 man squad size to 16.5 pts per guy at the 20 man squad size is by far the largest point dropoff in the game, and makes fielding anything but a maxed squad really sub-optimal. I'm working on a full squad of these guys over the summer, so I really hope they're a touch more playable by the fall

librarians don't have force weapons in 30k

as to the expensive units: yeah, they cost too much, but that shouldn't stop you from bringing them: again, the whole point that the worst 30k list still has a decent chance against the 'best' 30k list means you can afford to play fast and loose with point optimization.

 Brennonjw wrote:
librarians don't have force weapons in 30k

as to the expensive units: yeah, they cost too much, but that shouldn't stop you from bringing them: again, the whole point that the worst 30k list still has a decent chance against the 'best' 30k list means you can afford to play fast and loose with point optimization.

Wait wait, so what do Librarians have? I know they changed from book 1, but I thought the extent of that change was that they could only buy up to mastery level 2, and they got that 'support' rule meaning they couldn't be your mandatory HQ. What else changed? Was the force weapon replaced by anything? Did their points go down?

edit: just checked roster editor, the force weapon is still on there

double-edit: I'm only slightly concerned. The librarian is still fun and I have a sweet model for him, but I'll probably be using my primus medicae for that role more often in future games. The FNP goes down to 5+, but you'll have it 100% of the time, he's cheaper, and his blade of perdition will generally hit harder than the force stave.

 Walnuts wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
librarians don't have force weapons in 30k

as to the expensive units: yeah, they cost too much, but that shouldn't stop you from bringing them: again, the whole point that the worst 30k list still has a decent chance against the 'best' 30k list means you can afford to play fast and loose with point optimization.

Wait wait, so what do Librarians have? I know they changed from book 1, but I thought the extent of that change was that they could only buy up to mastery level 2, and they got that 'support' rule meaning they couldn't be your mandatory HQ. What else changed? Was the force weapon replaced by anything? Did their points go down?

edit: just checked roster editor, the force weapon is still on there

double-edit: I'm only slightly concerned. The librarian is still fun and I have a sweet model for him, but I'll probably be using my primus medicae for that role more often in future games. The FNP goes down to 5+, but you'll have it 100% of the time, he's cheaper, and his blade of perdition will generally hit harder than the force stave.

afaik libby's have never had force weapons, they come stock with a bolt pistol and chain sword and can upgrade just like a regular centurion.

Walnuts wrote:

Col. Dash wrote:
If I remember the wording right, I do not think hand flamers will work with chain fire. Correct me if I am wrong but for every hit with chain fire you get to re-roll hits. A flamer doesn't roll for hits thus you get your two initial shots and it ends as you don't pick up dice to roll with them.

The reason FW hasn't said anything because to their mind, the answer is already there.

Nope. Unless they changed the wording in a later book, which is possible, the way book 1 puts it, when shooting, for every hit, make an extra shooting attack. Rolling is never mentioned.

It's cool though, I believe everyone here that it's going to get FAQed. 30k is a fun balanced game, as opposed to 40k which is neither of those things, so I'm happy to not try and break the game. Besides, my blood angels are 3-0 so I'm doing just fine without resorting to cheese tactics

"For every successful Hit, they may make an immediate additional shooting attack."
My Crusade Army List book, 2014, I think.

Brennonjw wrote:

 Walnuts wrote:

 Brennonjw wrote:
librarians don't have force weapons in 30k

as to the expensive units: yeah, they cost too much, but that shouldn't stop you from bringing them: again, the whole point that the worst 30k list still has a decent chance against the 'best' 30k list means you can afford to play fast and loose with point optimization.

Wait wait, so what do Librarians have? I know they changed from book 1, but I thought the extent of that change was that they could only buy up to mastery level 2, and they got that 'support' rule meaning they couldn't be your mandatory HQ. What else changed? Was the force weapon replaced by anything? Did their points go down?

edit: just checked roster editor, the force weapon is still on there

double-edit: I'm only slightly concerned. The librarian is still fun and I have a sweet model for him, but I'll probably be using my primus medicae for that role more often in future games. The FNP goes down to 5+, but you'll have it 100% of the time, he's cheaper, and his blade of perdition will generally hit harder than the force stave.

afaik libby's have never had force weapons, they come stock with a bolt pistol and chain sword and can upgrade just like a regular centurion.

In the Crusade Army List book I have, I'm seeing that Librarians get to change out their chainsword, combat blade or power weapon (if in TDA) for a Force Weapon.

Well smudge, if they changed the wording, then they changed the wording. It's not going to affect how I play either way, BUT since I see so much contradicting information on this board, I'll believe it when I see it

And Brennon, for the Librarians, from book 1



clear as mud