MK IV power armour vs MK VII

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**Warden**

I've read conflicting fluff on this. I have read that MK IV armour was the pinnacle of power armour design, but that it was very costly and difficult to produce. I have also read that MK VII is the best and would have been used heavily by loyalist forces fighting on terra as it was manufactured there towards the end of the Heresy. Can anybody shed any light on which armour is more advanced? I also came across fluff that states the Iron Hands field a lot of newly produced MK IV armour due to their close relationship with the Adeptus Mechanicus. As with a lot of 40K lore, I'm sure there is no conclusive answer.

**Ashiraya**

As far as I can tell, mk4 is more technologically advanced, but mk7 is more cleverly designed. Not quite the same.

The Iron Hands never used mk4 as much as the others. Mk3 was their jam.

**Gashrog**

MkIV was the most technologically advanced, that was its problem: the advanced technologies proved too hard to maintain, repair and fabricate. MkVII was designed to use less effective (IA10 notes that it lacks the advanced optics of MkIV & VI) technologies in favour of those that are more resistant to damage and easier to repair.

Ashiraya wrote:
As far as I can tell, mk4 is more technologically advanced, but mk7 is more cleverly designed. Not quite the same.

The Iron Hands never used mk4 as much as the others. Mk3 was their jam.

Perhaps pre/mid-Heresy (though I'm not aware of any specific fluff statements to that fact), post-Heresy however Imperial Armour 10 does mention them alongside the Red Scorpions as being able to field it in large numbers.

**Iron_Captain**

All First and Second Founding Chapters should be able to field MkIV in large numbers as it was the standard-issue armour just before, during and right after the Horus Heresy (MkVII was only designed in the final days of the Heresy)
The MkIV and MkVI (which was a development from MkIV) are the most advanced patterns. This meant that during the turmoil of the Heresy, it was difficult to produce enough suits to keep up with demand. This led to the creation of MkV armour as a stop-gap measure and to the design of MkVIII which is essentially a simplified form of MkVI.

MkVIII definitely is the best armour design, but it is the best in the same way that in WW2 the T-34 was a much better design than the more advanced Tiger.

**Gashrog**

Iron_Captain wrote:
All First and Second Founding Chapters should be able to field MkIV in large numbers as it was the standard-issue armour just before, during and right after the Horus Heresy (MkVII was only designed in the final days of the Heresy)

Debatable: The original armour fluff article (from which the modern armour fluff is for the most part just paraphrased from) had MkIV armour production being halted immediately at the beginning of the Heresy, with even the (better-equipped) traitors being forced to scavenge MkV armour from the bodies of dead loyalists during the march to Terra, before re-equipping with MkVI when they reached Mars. MkIV was literally untenable: "The Space Marine armourers had hardly got used to the new armour and many were as yet unable to maintain it properly let alone duplicate it as was originally intended" ~ "suits quickly became unusable due to quite minor battle damage". This still holds true in the modern fluff, Imperial Armour 10 says: "few Chapters are able to produce or maintain Power Armour of this type in the current age."

**TheWanderer**

Gashrog wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
All First and Second Founding Chapters should be able to field MkIV in large numbers as it was the standard-issue armour just before, during and right after the Horus Heresy (MkVII was only designed in the final days of the Heresy)

Debatable: The original armour fluff article (from which the modern armour fluff is for the most part just paraphrased from) had MkIV armour production being halted immediately at the beginning of the Heresy, with even the (better-equipped) traitors being forced to scavenge MkV armour from the bodies of dead loyalists during the march to Terra, before re-equipping with MkVI when they reached Mars. MkIV was literally untenable: "The Space Marine armourers had hardly got used to the new armour and many were as yet unable to maintain it properly let alone duplicate it as was originally intended" ~ "suits quickly became unusable due to quite minor battle damage". This still holds true in the modern fluff, Imperial Armour 10 says: "few Chapters are able to produce or maintain Power Armour of this type in the current age."

Along those same lines I am pretty sure the original fluff indicated that MK IV was being introduced as the Heresy began and was not widely spread among the Legions and that Horus had actually manipulated supply lines to ensure that the traitors actually got most of the new MK IV rather than the loyalists.

MK V or "heresy armour" was the stop gap botching of MK III and MK IV to get something that continued working

**Gashrog**

The original fluff described MkIV's adoption as 'half complete' which if taken literally would make it the most common suit at the outset (I imagine it would also have been disproportionately common in the early battles, since the units higher up the pecking order of each legions supply chain would likely have been committed to battle first), though it was stated that some legions had not received any at all.

**AndrewGPaul**

in White Dwarf 129 (September 1990),Rick Priestley wrote:MARK 4
...Technical secrets uncovered on newly conquered worlds enabled the Martians to develop a more efficient armour, improving the quality of protection and reducing the weight of the suit at the same time ... use of new materials allowed the size and number of cables to be reduced ... Mark 4 armour was designed to be the ultimate and final type of Space Marine armour, able to offer the best protection in a variety of conditions

MARK 5
The general issue of Mark 4 armour was only half complete when the Horus Heresy broke out. This threw the entire program of supply into turmoil In fact many of the most recently supplied Chapters were to turn against the Imperium while many loyal Chapters were forced to continue with older variants, and the confusion was considerable. The Space Marine armourers ... had hardly got used to the new armour and many were as yet unable to maintain it properly let alone duplicate it as it was originally intended.

With the Mark 4 newly in service the need for large numbers of spares had not been anticipated, so that suits quickly became unusable due to quite minor battle damage. It was soon found that the new and rather specialised materials used in the construction of the Mark 4 were unavailable locally and this increasingly became a problem as Chapters moved from battle-zone to battle-zone ... Production of Mark 4 ceased and a new type of armour as designed almost literally overnight. This was the Mark 5 or Heresy Suit.

Mark 6
At the same time as production of Mark 4 armour ceased, work began on a long term development program to replace Mark 4 with a more durable type ... The weapon development workshops on Mars began to experiment with a mixture of new and old technology, making the newer materials more durable where possible ... The helmet is an improved version of the Mark 4 rather than a new type, although a new type was under development and was to be used on the Mark 7...

Mark 7
...Mark 7 represents the fulfilment of the new design program which was really only half complete in the Mark 6... Improvements were made to the knee joint articulation, but this modification had already been incorporated into many of the later Mark 6 suits... Parts from one are readily interchangeable with parts from another, so that a Mark 7 helmet will fit a Mark 6 suit and vice versa

Imperial Armour volume 9 broadly follows that (apart from suggesting Mark 7 might be less advanced in some ways than Mark 6). To me that says that even if Mark 4 is more "advanced", whatever that means, Marks 6 and 7 are still better in combat, overall. The inability of techs in the Heresy to manufacture or repair the armour was as more down to simple unfamiliarity with the new suit and a lack of technical manuals than with their lack of skill and knowledge (although a lack of critical raw materials didn't help either).

**Warpig1815**

Just a few bits of WD info that may be of relevance here:

As a sidenote, I find it interesting that the Mk VIII was actually developed immediately after the HH and yet sees very little use so far.