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So suddenly a WALKER with two pilots in the open is not a vehicle.
My local GW Blackshirt's excuse?
"It's a battlesuit"

And you know, Tau certainly deserve all the hate they get, because they shot my whole fething skyhammer our of the sky. I know skyhammer is ridiculous but there are counters.


All of the marines, two drop pods and two assault squads, ~800 points lost before movement phase one.

Oh and what is this blacksun filter bs? And the fusion blaster dickery? And Fire warriors beating Sternguard in combat? The hell?

I thinks it's about time I cracked open my Legionaries for another round against the xenos, eh?

"GW's rules for MCs make perfect sense" said no one EVER.

Sounds like someone is mad because bad.

Like, what do you want us to say? That you don't deserve to ever lose, and we should be mad that you were injusticed because your opponent beat your list?

Now regarding the walkers: I think tau riptides and ghost keals should be monsterous creatures because they are pretty much just sized up suits, but the rocket chicken is basically a walking artillery platform and should be a walker. Seriously, it's not like a suit at all. You literally see the pilots driving it.

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
So suddenly a WALKER with two pilots in the open is not a vehicle.
My local GW Blackshirt's excuse?
"It's a battlesuit"

And you know, Tau certainly deserve all the hate they get, because they shot my whole fething skyhammer our of the sky. I know skyhammer is ridiculous but there are counters.


All of the marines, two drop pods and two assault squads, ~800 points lost before movement phase one.

Oh and what is this blacksun filter bs? And the fusion blaster dickery? And Fire warriors beating Sternguard in combat? The hell?

I thinks it's about time I cracked open my Legionaries for another round against the xenos, eh?

You are mad because you SKYHAMMER got shot out of the sky?

You play the single most OP and disqusting formation in the game, and somehow even fail at utlizing it, and then you come here to cry how "Tau deserve their hate"?

Get out.

Gladius is much better at actually winning than Skyhammer. I've beaten skyhammer with BA, but never Gladius.

Aye, Tau suck all the fun out of the game, as much as Eldar and Gladius do. At least with Gladius and other SM cheese, I get a chance to fight back.

 crazyK wrote:

^ Almost anytime the pampered mureenz start to mine salt.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Aye, Tau suck all the fun out of the game, as much as Eldar and Gladius do. At least with Gladius and other SM cheese, I get a chance to fight back.

at least until you folks start using the new psychic powers. . . THAT TAU HAVE NO DEFENSE AGAINST

 carldooley wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Aye, Tau suck all the fun out of the game, as much as Eldar and Gladius do. At least with Gladius and other SM cheese, I get a chance to fight back.

at least until you folks start using the new psychic powers. . . THAT TAU HAVE NO DEFENSE AGAINST

We'll see how that plays out. I don't think you can squeeze many libbies into a Gladius.

Whether people like Tau or not aside:

I will say the conformity as to what is an MC and what isn't doesn't entirely make sense. To the "Battlesuit" degree, IG Sentinels should then be mini monstrous creatures, same with Killa Kans and Dreadnoughts. The latter being more of a walking coffin, so I partially understand the vehicle rating. There needs to be consistency between what is a walking armored vehicle and what is clearly a "biological" monster.

 BoomWolf wrote:

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
So suddenly a WALKER with two pilots in the open is not a vehicle.
My local GW Blackshirt's excuse?
"It's a battlesuit"

And you know, Tau certainly deserve all the hate they get, because they shot my whole fething skyhammer our of the sky. I know skyhammer is ridiculous but there are counters.


All of the marines, two drop pods and two assault squads, ~800 points lost before movement phase one.

Oh and what is this blacksun filter bs? And the fusion blaster dickery? And Fire warriors beating Sternguard in combat? The hell?

I thinks it's about time I cracked open my Legionaries for another round against the xenos, eh?

You are mad because you SKYHAMMER got shot out of the sky?

You play the single most OP and disqusting formation in the game, and somehow even fail at utlizing it, and then you come here to cry how "Tau deserve their hate"?

Get out.

Thanks for that comment, made my evening.

Scissors thought rock was actually paper. Scissors raged.

 IronMaster wrote:
Whether people like Tau or not aside:

I will say the conformity as to what is an MC and what isn't doesn't entirely make sense. To the "Battlesuit" degree, IG Sentinels should then be mini monstrous creatures, same with Killa Kans and Dreadnoughts. The latter being more of a walking coffin, so I partially understand the vehicle rating. There needs to be consistency between what is a walking armored vehicle and what is clearly a "biological" monster.

I think the difference between GMC and walker should be more of a "how does this thing move, shoot and behave" if you have something like a sentinel which is really just a vehicle with legs, I think it should be a walker as it's not going to be throwing punches and jumping around, but a riptide, knight, and carnifex should be GMC/MCs because they behave like monsters as apposed to tanks. Really this should be a case by case thing, but I think we should be making any sort of battle suit with arms that is highly mobile that fights like a gundam (for lack of a better word) into an MC/GMC, and save walker for vehicles on legs that don't behave like living monsters that are made from metal.

Look at this from a "what rules fit the model" perspective not a "what is the correct naming convention" perspective. Also nobody complains about crisis suits or broadsides not being vehicles, even though the same argument for nerfing riptides into walkers applies to them. tau suits have never been vehicles, and I'm against changing them into vehicles as it would nerf tau into the ground if all our big infantry could be 1 shot and no longer could jump shoot jump. This is a part of this argument that people often ignore, but it's an important one to keep in mind.

My thoughts on the fluff on why something is a vehicle or a mc are .
1. MC don't have the pilot use controls , they are the controls. So a battle suit the pilot is the control mechanism as apposed to a sentinels where the IG is using controls to control the construct. Dreadnoughts would also fall into the the pilot is the control portion as well

2. The construct offers full range of motion. Tau battlesuits have all the normal joints/fingers ect. They have full range of motion. Almost all walkers do not . The are very basic in the motions they can perform.

The problem is that We don't know the criteria uses for making something a MC or GMC or whatever, or even if thers is a system.

Some consistency would go go a long way.

I don't think there is a system really. My theory on why the riptide is an MC is a combo of the XV8 being a creature and the normal walker rules being horrid. That, and they didn't have to deal with writing new jetpack rules. After that it's a matter of the riptide being expanded upon.


I personally thing all suits riptide and up should be walkers/SHW, but also that the walker rules (and vehicle rules in general) need a re-work. Aslo, MCs should loose a lot of the rules they get base (such as smash), and have it only be given to things that make sense having them.

The Riptide rules are fine for a more expensive model. That's the end of the problem. MC or walker doesn't matter if it's appropriately costed.

True.

I play CSM and find it hilariously counter productive for GW to constantly make Tau battlesuits MC and GMC when I have a giant walking Daemonically Possessed killer Crab that functions beyond all reasons without proper gears, hydraulics nor any operating system other than the bare basics is still considered a Walker, yet hilariously a Wraithknight and Wraithlord are are the exact same damn thing, but considered MCs and GMCs. Literally a Skeletal shell for Dead Entities to inhabit and defend their Eldar Brethren from beyond the grave. MACHINE > SPIRIT > GMC = What the holy crap

Tau have freaking MACHINES, with Pilots, they control walking around and gain the benefit from all the special rules associated from being such, simply because GW wants to sell models. That's the ONLY reason the Tau are benefiting from them. We all know it, have known it and will continue seeing it so long as it SELLS. All the players and forum goers will try to justify things as I have earlier but when it comes down to it, nothing freaking matters because GW still owns your soul, still dictates the poorly conceived rules without as much as a thought process above an IQ standard of 70 because they simply dont care.

If it Sells, make it so. So say-ith the GW gods over the plebeians of the 40k Universe. Amen and to death do we part with our models. lol

 BoomWolf wrote:

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
So suddenly a WALKER with two pilots in the open is not a vehicle.
My local GW Blackshirt's excuse?
"It's a battlesuit"

And you know, Tau certainly deserve all the hate they get, because they shot my whole fething skyhammer our of the sky. I know skyhammer is ridiculous but there are counters.


All of the marines, two drop pods and two assault squads, ~800 points lost before movement phase one.

Oh and what is this blacksun filter bs? And the fusion blaster dickery? And Fire warriors beating Sternguard in combat? The hell?

I thinks it's about time I cracked open my Legionaries for another round against the xenos, eh?

You are mad because you SKYHAMMER got shot out of the sky?

You play the single most OP and disqusting formation in the game, and somehow even fail at utlizing it, and then you come here to cry how "Tau deserve their hate"?

Get out.

I wish I could exalt this more than once. Skyhammer is a bs OP formation, so for anyone who uses it to complain when it fails to other OP stuff is just hypocrisy at its finest.

Orks are neurologicaly wired into their deff dredds and charge into melee with 4 arms at initiative. Can we haz MC? Actually I'm stunned Ghazzy isn't MC yet. Someday a crafty warboss will gather some Boyz and loot the MC off the Tau.

Walker rules need a rework/buff. MC rules need a rework/nerf. I'd be surprised if this horse was more than a puddle on the ground at this point, figuratively liquefied from all the beating it gets.

Perhaps MCs just shouldn't exist at all and they should all be variants of the vehicle rules. Seems silly that you can't blow the limbs of a Riptide, but you can off a dreadnought etc. Riptide 12/12/10 HP4 with a huge points drop in there? Stormsurge 13/12/10 HP6 SHW open topped with a hefty points drop?

 carldooley wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Aye, Tau suck all the fun out of the game, as much as Eldar and Gladius do. At least with Gladius and other SM cheese, I get a chance to fight back.

at least until you folks start using the new psychic powers. . . THAT TAU HAVE NO DEFENSE AGAINST

Hey guess what?

If a Librarian gets shot to death on turn one, he can't be casting powers.

Martel732 wrote:
Gladius is much better at actually winning than Skyhammer. I've beaten skyhammer with BA, but never Gladius.

Not many lists can utilize Skyhammer well. Gladius is just broken no matter which way you look at it. That many free Ob. Sec units is tough to beat, particulary in Maelstrom missions.

It's funny. My BA just cower in and behind Rhinos and the Skyhammer guy is stumped. It's even funnier when they realize that grav can never, ever explode a Rhino.

 ProwlerPC wrote:
Orks are neurologicaly wired into their deff dredds and charge into melee with 4 arms at initiative. Can we haz MC? Actually I'm stunned Ghazzy isn't MC yet. Someday a crafty warboss will gather some Boyz and loot the MC off the Tau.

This. Deff Dreads are more MC than Riptides.

All non-Tyranids MC and greater were made because power sells. Everyone knows that most Tau players admit that and that if they were walkers instead of MC they would drop in power ranking.

 Quickjager wrote:
All non-Tyranids MC and greater were made because power sells. Everyone knows that most Tau players admit that and that if they were walkers instead of MC they would drop in power ranking.

Yes all of those Daemon MCs and Eldar MCs are clearly suppose to be walkers right?


The reason (G)MCs are good and walkers are bad aren't because they are MCs and Walkers. It because their point costs make them good an bad. If a Riptide was 1000 pts to take would it still be good? If a Deff Dread was 10 pts would it still be bad?

Yea I know goddamn Eldar and their need to have GC for no goddamn reason yea? Their fething Titan is AV itself using the same methods.

Also good on you for pointing out the inaccuracy of my sweeping generalization and ignoring the real point. Walkers are not balanced well but their rules will never receive the fixes they need. So to get around that and sell stuff they slap G/MC rules on it.

You get around to my point from the other direction. They are made MC because then they don't have to deal with a crappy AV system, the fact they are under costed is anot her additional issue.

The AV system is only bad because the units that use it are overpriced

Martel732 wrote:

 carldooley wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Aye, Tau suck all the fun out of the game, as much as Eldar and Gladius do. At least with Gladius and other SM cheese, I get a chance to fight back.

at least until you folks start using the new psychic powers. . . THAT TAU HAVE NO DEFENSE AGAINST

We'll see how that plays out. I don't think you can squeeze many libbies into a Gladius.

Try 5... Five Librarians... Casting their fancy powers on 2+