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Idk. It turns out earth was a undiscovered world to the imperium and decides to get a squad of termies to disable a main part of the main force (NATO) so they teleport a squad of termies in after what they realised what we were using for weapons. The base is a regular base (Basic ammo, 3 or four tanks. 2 or three platoons of marines. And a few mg emplacements. Who would win?

Terminators, if Bolters are AP5 then assault rifles are not even going to come close.

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
Terminators, if Bolters are AP5 then assault rifles are not even going to come close.

Rules-wise autoguns (which are visually presented as equivalents to real-world rifles) have the same stats as lasguns. So each hit has a 5.5% chance to kill a terminator, and there are a lot of bullets heading their way. The terminators will undoubtedly kill a lot of people before they die but eventually they will go down.

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
Terminators, if Bolters are AP5 then assault rifles are not even going to come close.

Rules-wise autoguns (which are visually presented as equivalents to real-world rifles) have the same stats as lasguns. So each hit has a 5.5% chance to kill a terminator, and there are a lot of bullets heading their way. The terminators will undoubtedly kill a lot of people before they die but eventually they will go down.

A better question might be: Tac Termies, Cataphractii or Assault (Hammer/Claw?)

Its pretty one sided - especially if the base is not expecting anything - say middle of the night in peacetime......

It will take some time for anyone on the base to know what the hell is going on and by then they should have dealt with the major threats to them - they might loose one or two to lucky shots but that base is toast...............

It might be a little different if the were on a war footing.........don't know enough about the differences.......

 Peregrine wrote:

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
Terminators, if Bolters are AP5 then assault rifles are not even going to come close.

Rules-wise autoguns (which are visually presented as equivalents to real-world rifles) have the same stats as lasguns. So each hit has a 5.5% chance to kill a terminator, and there are a lot of bullets heading their way. The terminators will undoubtedly kill a lot of people before they die but eventually they will go down.

Game mechanics, Perry. Bad boy.

Also the termies win. TDA can shrug off krak missiles, we can't do very much to harm them.

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
Terminators, if Bolters are AP5 then assault rifles are not even going to come close.

I once killed a whole termie squad with grot blastas, and those are muskets and six shooters.

By that standard, NATO would have no problem, and termies would have a rough time at the OK corral.

Do you mean a FOB? Or a COB? Or a patrol base? It sounds like you're referring to an Infantry Patrol Base, which won't have any tanks, and 3 7.62mm light-medium machine guns. But based on the way they are set up and run, if a terminator squad teleported into the middle of it, it doesn't matter who it is, that Patrol base is gonna get waxed.

The guys inside wouldn't be able to even fire on the terminators because of the problem of possible fratricide, more than likely only 1/3 of the guys are actually awake, all the leadership is in the middle and will be the first to go. If this really happened the platoon would would break contact and move their patrol base to their alternate one- provided anyone actually lived.

If it were any larger- moving up to a FOB size- the exact same scenario would happen just on a larger scale. Guys are taught to not just fire into the middle of the base, so they would all pick up and leave in a hurry. Also, what kind of tanks are we talking here?

 Ignatius wrote:
Do you mean a FOB? Or a COB? Or a patrol base? It sounds like you're referring to an Infantry Patrol Base, which won't have any tanks, and 3 7.62mm light-medium machine guns. But based on the way they are set up and run, if a terminator squad teleported into the middle of it, it doesn't matter who it is, that Patrol base is gonna get waxed.

The guys inside wouldn't be able to even fire on the terminators because of the problem of possible fratricide, more than likely only 1/3 of the guys are actually awake, all the leadership is in the middle and will be the first to go. If this really happened the platoon would would break contact and move their patrol base to their alternate one- provided anyone actually lived.

If it were any larger- moving up to a FOB size- the exact same scenario would happen just on a larger scale. Guys are taught to not just fire into the middle of the base, so they would all pick up and leave in a hurry. Also, what kind of tanks are we talking here?

Were talking about this time of age so if it was west. An Abram's I assume? And if it was east... maybe a T-90.

I'm not military, but isn't it safe to assume that the marines keep their weapons in the armory and not the barracks? If so then they are effectively disarmed.

and isn't this better in 40k background?

Terminators die to shotguns and grot blasters. They lose instantly.

 Commissar Terrence wrote:
Idk. It turns out earth was a undiscovered world to the imperium and decides to get a squad of termies to disable a main part of the main force (NATO) so they teleport a squad of termies in after what they realised what we were using for weapons. The base is a regular base (Basic ammo, 3 or four tanks. 2 or three platoons of marines. And a few mg emplacements. Who would win?

Assuming this isn't a "Terminators teleport into chow hall when nobody has any idea what's going on" scenario (in which case it doesn't matter if you're talking Terminators or a modern 2000lb bomb), then modern weapons & physics wins. A modern NATO tank of just about any type can put accurately hit a moving tank sized target with a 90%+ accuracy while moving itself from a distance of 2 kilometers or more, and with projectiles capable of penetrating a full meter of cold rolled steel, while even fifty year old RPG's can hit targets at under 100/200 meters with great certainty and penetrate 200mm or more of armor. Small arms fire may not do terribly much, but they can do things that 40k fluff doesn't really talk about, like shatter optics or break weapons (that Storm Bolter isn't much use after it's been hit by a burst of machinegun fire), cut exposed cabling, potentially penetrate through underarmored joints, etc.

This is to say nothing of the air and artillery support that would be called upon in short order.

Also, a typical military base is going to be much larger than a couple platoons of infantry and a couple armored vehicles. Looking at something like Miramar or Pendelton (I used to live in San Diego) you're going to have many thousands/tens of thousands of infantry, with gobs of aircraft, tanks, artillery, etc.

A single squad of Terminators against modern weaponry wouldn't last very long at all. 40k works in it's "fantasy in Space" universe, but really rapidly breaks down once the real world is applied to it.

Are the terminators wearing helmets?

 Chute82 wrote:
Are the terminators wearing helmets?

yes....

Just to name a few things
Bradley fighting vehicles have 25mm depleted uranium rounds plus TOW missle
Abrams have depleted uranium
A-10 and Apache have 30mm depleted uranium
Infantry have AT-4 which can punch 14+ inches of armor
Infantry have TOW missle launchers
Infantry have javelin missle launchers

Your Terminators would be destroyed in short order

A lot depends on your assumptions.

Even auto guns, which are weaker than las guns, are more powerful than modern arms. In game, things like lasguns are bumped up while terminator armor is toned down.

That said, heavy stubbers are pretty explicitly 50 caliber heavy machine guns, so the intersection of contemporary and 40k weapons isn't completely impossible. Eventually, the termies die to weight of fire. Complicating things a bit are heavy flamers, which are far more effective than any modern flamethrower.

And eventually the termies run out of ammo.

I wouldn't use the Tabletop as a good example for Terminators. I would probably use the FFG RPG system which basically makes them immune to autoguns. Even if you score a lucky shot through the eye, its a high possibility that their bone, the Astartes', will stop the bullet in its tracks.

No one even mentions the tanks yet. Abrams 120 main gun should smoke a temie a shot. Depending on the rounds used perhaps more. Don't forget the coaxial gun. Bolter won't hurt it and tank shock would squish most any thing

An Abrams isn't shooting a terminator to death. It probably won't even scratch the paintwork.


Terminators assault bases in the fluff all the time in 40k and often emerge at the other end covered in blood. Anything in the modern era doesn't come close to that level of firepower.

 Chute82 wrote:
Just to name a few things
Bradley fighting vehicles have 25mm depleted uranium rounds plus TOW missle
Abrams have depleted uranium
A-10 and Apache have 30mm depleted uranium
Infantry have AT-4 which can punch 14+ inches of armor
Infantry have TOW missle launchers
Infantry have javelin missle launchers

Your Terminators would be destroyed in short order

Uranium round's will not dent the armour and TOW missiles might cause a minor concussion.
The abrams... (if it hit a motor or a exposed area) may cause a dent. Messing up the person inside. But then again the second heart might give them a second wind.
30mm.... Are you kidding me?
AT-14... Might just scratch the paint work.
A javelin (After several shot's wasting millions) might shatter a few bones. It's high quality ceramite plates...

A termie 38 millenniums in the future against a petty tank. *Pfft*

 welshhoppo wrote:
An Abrams isn't shooting a terminator to death. It probably won't even scratch the paintwork.


Terminators assault bases in the fluff all the time in 40k and often emerge at the other end covered in blood. Anything in the modern era doesn't come close to that level of firepower.

Terminators die to shotguns. They have no chance against a 120 mm du round.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Commissar Terrence wrote:

 Chute82 wrote:
Just to name a few things
Bradley fighting vehicles have 25mm depleted uranium rounds plus TOW missle
Abrams have depleted uranium
A-10 and Apache have 30mm depleted uranium
Infantry have AT-4 which can punch 14+ inches of armor
Infantry have TOW missle launchers
Infantry have javelin missle launchers

Your Terminators would be destroyed in short order

Uranium round's will not dent the armour and TOW missiles might cause a minor concussion.
The abrams... (if it hit a motor or a exposed area) may cause a dent. Messing up the person inside. But then again the second heart might give them a second wind.
30mm.... Are you kidding me?
AT-14... Might just scratch the paint work.
A javelin (After several shot's wasting millions) might shatter a few bones. It's high quality ceramite plates...

A termie 38 millenniums in the future against a petty tank. *Pfft*

Future tech that is backwards and inferior to real weapons.

For all this talk of shotguns killing Terminators they can also survive a direct hit from weapons used on Eldar starships.

I think the concussive force of a tank shell into the head of a Termie would easily snap the neck. Into the body it would probably send them flying a couple of feet.

Usually they can't, though. Makes them sound like ork wargear in how crazy unreliable it is.

pm713 wrote:
For all this talk of shotguns killing Terminators they can also survive a direct hit from weapons used on Eldar starships.

Because they don't die to shotguns. The tabletop format for TDA is garbage compared to what it is in the fluff.

I'll try to make that argument to my next opponent. Shotguns and heavy stubbers kill them. If they didn't kill them, they'd be rated like a wk. Fluff tda armor doesn't matter.

 Vaktathi wrote:

 Commissar Terrence wrote:
Idk. It turns out earth was a undiscovered world to the imperium and decides to get a squad of termies to disable a main part of the main force (NATO) so they teleport a squad of termies in after what they realised what we were using for weapons. The base is a regular base (Basic ammo, 3 or four tanks. 2 or three platoons of marines. And a few mg emplacements. Who would win?

Assuming this isn't a "Terminators teleport into chow hall when nobody has any idea what's going on" scenario (in which case it doesn't matter if you're talking Terminators or a modern 2000lb bomb), then modern weapons & physics wins. A modern NATO tank of just about any type can put accurately hit a moving tank sized target with a 90%+ accuracy while moving itself from a distance of 2 kilometers or more, and with projectiles capable of penetrating a full meter of cold rolled steel, while even fifty year old RPG's can hit targets at under 100/200 meters with great certainty and penetrate 200mm or more of armor. Small arms fire may not do terribly much, but they can do things that 40k fluff doesn't really talk about, like shatter optics or break weapons (that Storm Bolter isn't much use after it's been hit by a burst of machinegun fire), cut exposed cabling, potentially penetrate through underarmored joints, etc.

This is to say nothing of the air and artillery support that would be called upon in short order.

Also, a typical military base is going to be much larger than a couple platoons of infantry and a couple armored vehicles. Looking at something like Miramar or Pendelton (I used to live in San Diego) you're going to have many thousands/tens of thousands of infantry, with gobs of aircraft, tanks, artillery, etc.

A single squad of Terminators against modern weaponry wouldn't last very long at all. 40k works in it's "fantasy in Space" universe, but really rapidly breaks down once the real world is applied to it.

Im assuming the petty abram's would maybe dent the armour. And a rpg would just probably bounce off the armour. And it will take a helluva long time to break there weapons with basic military rounds. And if that happened they'll just rely on power fists and there sheer lack of getting there amour pierced. Now if they didn't have a helmet. The marines could just shoot them in the head. And the termie's can just punch the tanks until there's nothing left. optic's could leave them a bit exposed due to the lack of sight. But that's a small chance of doing that due to spread. And before hand the termie's could just teleport into the armoury and detonate that before anyone know's what's going on. And now even with marines with odd amounts of weapons wont be able to dent the armour with small arm's and knifes. And they could also teleport near where the vehicles are stored and simply break destroy them or rig them beforehand. So here's a image of what the marines would be after the Tactical Dreadnought armour squad are done with the entire base.

Martel732 wrote:
I'll try to make that argument to my next opponent. Shotguns and heavy stubbers kill them. If they didn't kill them, they'd be rated like a wk. Fluff tda armor doesn't matter.

Better throw out all of the fluff then.

By rules, TDA fails to every sixth rude glance.

By fluff, TDA allows a wearer to stroll through a plasma furnace.

If you like then rules, weight of fire brings them down quickly.

If you like the fluff, five terminators cause havoc until they they are cut off, and isolated. Game over.

The fluff has zero impact on gameplay. Therefore, it's already thrown out. If fluff had an impact on gameplay, ba and csm wouldn't incompetent stooges. But they are.