Cadian Shock Troops: Needless Opinions and Ponderings

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**Ginsu33**

Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Most duties a guardsman has, as laid down in the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, are spent on sentry duty and on defence - not marching. The vast majority of engagements run by the AM are trench warfare based, so marching really isn't a priority. It's really just a case of "stay here, stop the enemy getting past, and when they die, we'll pick you up."
And a Cadian woman can fire a lasgun just as well as a man, and can die just as easy too.

And who says that Cadian women are different to Terran women? Due to simple genetic evolution, it's not unreasonable to assume that women become just as competent as men over 38000 years, and that all women could serve.

And there are multiple sources that would support women in a combat role, not just in the Cadian military.
Sources: FFG's Only War (which actually lets you play as a female guardsman in any capability), Space Marine, Gaunt's Ghosts (which features plenty of marching and no mechanised) and the Ciaphas Cain novels (which support an entire female regiment, albeit Valhallan, not Cadian). However, it is noted that less the 10% of overall guardsmen are female, in the same source.

Only War artwork - the first is rather large, but fits well. The last is a Catachan, but still serves the point.

Spoiler:

Duties performed during war are circumstantial, I can't agree with the notion that any kind of expectation should be had and therefore any alternatives to that considered unlikely enough to occur and therefore not to warrant preparation or concern. Fluff has been clear enough that the AM perform and in engage in every type of warfare , Damocles Crusade being a good example as well as inspiration for that Uplifting Primer, was an offensive operation, with infantry deployed on foot moving from established landing zones to engage Tau forces, supported by Leman Russ units.

That's regular infantry work. Still, I figure it wouldn't be hard to consider women are different in 40k, just saying GW doesnt mention it or depict it from their primary sources.

Righteousrob wrote:
Pretty sure just like in our current world. There would be drugs to get rid of that time of month so please drop that stupid argument.

Unless you have served with woman in a unit please shut it. While you are correct the most in shape man will beat a in shape woman. Most combat ready woman can serve fine and there are plenty of fatties in the military who are male.

Gaunts soldiers include a decent amount of very capable woman.

What hypocrisy! My personal experiences with women, either positive or negative, would not amount enough real data required to make such generalized statements about an entire gender. It's the opinions of two Military organisations, one being the United States Marine Corps, the second being the Israeli Defense Forces.

**Righteousrob**

You are talking the elite of the elite where 99% of men can't make it in the elite groups. Regular corp woman can serve fine. How is my first hand knowledge of woman serving hypocrisy.

Also that time of month doesn't exist in the 40k fiction. Just like the male drive during deployment. Also there are female commissars so that tells they can be elite I guess?

**Ginsu33**

Righteousrob wrote:
You are talking the elite of the elite where 99% of men can't make it in the elite groups. Regular corp woman can serve fine. How is my first hand knowledge of woman serving hypocrisy.

Also that time of month doesn't exist in the 40k fiction. Just like the male drive during deployment. Also there are female commissars so that tells they can be elite I guess?

It is hypocrisy to put in to question what my first hand experience was (if any) compared to yours, because it doesn't matter as any amount of experience cannot amount to the wealth of information found from studies on the subject. Secondly, it's not my opinion but the opinion of the USMC and IDF which I believe to be accurate.

Also, define what: 'can serve fine' means.
What does that mean to you? To me it means they can do the job to an unspecified standard, while I am discussing a very specific standard of regular infantry.

Regarding PMS, I don't remember much about it other than (IIRC) the women were able to 'handle' it without issue given their role (Light infantry mounted in vehicles) so I can't comment on PMS in detail. Other studies found more of the same; that injuries sustained during training and/or deployments were higher then males, with fatigue knocking out the strongest of females after prolonged deployments/activities. If that equals 'can serve fine' to you, then you have your own standards not reflective of what is required for the role or you worked with women not seen in the last four decades.

**tneva82**

Ginsu33 wrote:
Also, define what: 'can serve fine' means.
What does that mean to you? To me it means they can do the job to an unspecified standard, while I am discussing a very specific standard of regular infantry.

So let's see. In real life(ie the one we are living) there are women soldiers in infantry role. Yet somehow in 40k somehow females can't do...

Care to explain what kind of evolution happened in next 38,000 years to make women LESS able to do what they can do now?

**Righteousrob**

Don't. Just don't bother with this guy. There are real life examples and fiction examples if woman infantry. I contend elite forces currently do not work well with woman but would in 40k. Sir we will have to agree to disagree. I'm out.

**BrianDavion**

regarding female soldiers in 40k...

Sisters of Battle.

some of the most elite troops in service to the IoM are women.

**Ginsu33**

tneva82 wrote:
Ginsu33 wrote:
Also, define what: 'can serve fine' means.
What does that mean to you? To me it means they can do the job to an unspecified standard, while I am discussing a very specific standard of regular infantry.

So let's see. In real life(ie the one we are living) there are women soldiers in infantry role. Yet somehow in 40k somehow females can't do...

Care to explain what kind of evolution happened in next 38,000 years to make women LESS able to do what they can do now?

Did I say women can't do the job? No.

I said GW should take facts in to consideration, I never said/suggested some kind of reduction of female strength during the timeline either.

Righteousrob wrote:
Don't. Just don't bother with this guy. There are real life examples and fiction examples if woman infantry. I contend elite forces currently do not work well with woman but would in 40k. Sir we will have to agree to disagree. I'm out.

You should say "Just don't bother paying attention", because you still have no idea what I am talking about. Yes there are real life examples of female infantry, hence we have the data from studies to conclude that males make better soldiers, this shows there is no equal footing between male and female infantry as suggested. I have no idea if you agree or disagree with this as you just continue to fixate on women doing the job or not.

What a funny thread...

**Chef_of_Cadia**

BrianDavion wrote:
regarding female soldiers in 40k...

Sisters of Battle.

some of the most elite troops in service to the IoM are women.

Actually for one they use power armor, and even then a male Stormtrooper was able to fight off two of them with his bare hands in one of the novels

**BrianDavion**

Chef_of_Cadia wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
regarding female soldiers in 40k...

Sisters of Battle.

some of the most elite troops in service to the IoM are women.

Actually for one they use power armor, and even then a male Stormtrooper was able to fight off two of them with his bare hands in one of the novels

Space Marines use power armor, are you going to try to argue THEY'RE not elite troops?

**Mudrat**

Chef_of_Cadia wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
regarding female soldiers in 40k...

Sisters of Battle.

some of the most elite troops in service to the IoM are women.

Actually for one they use power armor, and even then a male Stormtrooper was able to fight off two of them with his bare hands in one of the novels

Wasn't that towards the end of Redemption Corps? I found the climax there a little too disorganized and frantic for my taste, not sure I'd consider it the best possible source.
But yes, a single stormtrooper did fight off two sister with his bare hands. Even if he wasn't considered an uber-stormtrooper who can't feel pain, I'm sure something like that would happen now and again in an 10,000 year-old empire with a million-odd worlds. In the same spirit, I'm sure I could find a book where Terminator's started backflipping.

**Furyou Miko**

Chef_of_Cadia wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
regarding female soldiers in 40k...

Sisters of Battle.

some of the most elite troops in service to the IoM are women.

Actually for one they use power armor, and even then a male Stormtrooper was able to fight off two of them with his bare hands in one of the novels

Those weren't real Battle Sisters.

You can tell from the fact that their leader was a madwoman actively trying to sabotage the defence of Terra.

Dressing up female cultists in fake power armour does not make them Battle Sisters.