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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 15:42:55
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Having played more games then I can remember as an Ork player I can say that the 6+ save is useless, The only real times I get to use it are when I am in combat against average troops. I would hazard a guess that something in the range of 95%+ of all ranged weapons in this game defeat 6+ armor, and hell lets make that 5+ because I know of a lot of AP5 weapons but not to many AP6 (scatterlaser) So realistically these saves exist on paper, the model in question is paying for it but he never gets to use it because every weapon in the game defeats it. The only times those models get a save is when they are in cover.
I would love to say let those units with models with 5+ and 6+ change it to some form of Invulnerable save because realistically that is the only way they ever get that save, but then a lot of people would point out (justly) that Terminators have a 5++ so giving that to guardsmen seems ridiculous and I would agree with them. So what do we do? I feel like we should either eliminate the save entirely like Grots, and then factor in a points reduction for that model or we should remove AP from almost every weapon. Why almost every weapon? because realistically this game has quickly become a game of One up, and unless you have a 2+ or a 3+ you are not going to be using your save very often. Hell even my orks can roast 4+ save units with Lootas and a plethora of other weapons.
What is the point of giving a model a saving throw if they almost never get that save because weapons have become high RoF AP 3-6 with almost no down side.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 15:47:31
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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Your an Ork player, granted the codex is weak right now, but the whole point of orks is the blob the enemy and overwhelm them. You are going to loose a lot of Ork a lot of the time, once you get in me lee of course you are brutal.
If you are charging something like a taught line of course you are gonna die
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To many unpainted models to count. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 15:54:11
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Vedros
The Battle for Vedros simplified rules seem to allow you always take a save.
Perhaps we should adopt them?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 17:08:27
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols
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I'm always up for simplified rules.
A sytem like they had in the the old days, like what Age Of Sigmar now uses, would be much better. Make it so that the vast majority of weapons still allow armour saves, but a few (particularly special weapons) don't.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 17:14:16
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Backspacehacker wrote:Your an Ork player, granted the codex is weak right now, but the whole point of orks is the blob the enemy and overwhelm them. You are going to loose a lot of Ork a lot of the time, once you get in me lee of course you are brutal.
If you are charging something like a taught line of course you are gonna die
thank you for not addressing anything I just said or mentioned and instead of providing constructive criticism or your own idea your answer is "your orks your supposed to die"
Thanks for that.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 17:35:53
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine
Little Rock, Arkansas
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Games against orks would take a good bit longer if they all got saves. Orks aren't exactly paying much of a premium for their t-shirt anyway. 6 points for a t4 model with almost as many cc attacks as most marine fighty HQ choices is pretty good. The whole army theory is that if enough of them make it to melee, you win. Additionally, nobs are the real workers of the army. The boys are really just there as 6 point extra wounds to get him into melee safely.
I personally find Ork boys to be (slightly) better troops than tac marines point for point, just because people bring lots of good AP weapons due to marines being a large chunk of the meta game. Bringing good AP against orks ruins the efficiency of your weapons. And as above, if you don't kill the nob, you really haven't hurt the unit much.
One of my buddies leaves his orks at my place, and I run them quite a bit, usually as trukk spam with a pk/bp nob in each of 6 ork boy squads backed up by a couple loota squads, some tankbustas, and a set of warbikers to escort a bikerboss and biker painboy. The army is actually quite deadly, and rarely loses if it gets first turn and gets to close the gap with all the trukks, or if they can't drop enough trukks on their t1.
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20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 18:05:38
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols
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They get saves against lasguns.
Keep their saves at 6+ but few weapons will ignore it, so there's always a chance that a few will survive.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/19 18:06:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 18:59:39
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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SemperMortis wrote:Having played more games then I can remember as an Ork player I can say that the 6+ save is useless, The only real times I get to use it are when I am in combat against average troops. I would hazard a guess that something in the range of 95%+ of all ranged weapons in this game defeat 6+ armor, and hell lets make that 5+ because I know of a lot of AP5 weapons but not to many AP6 (scatterlaser) So realistically these saves exist on paper, the model in question is paying for it but he never gets to use it because every weapon in the game defeats it. The only times those models get a save is when they are in cover.
I would love to say let those units with models with 5+ and 6+ change it to some form of Invulnerable save because realistically that is the only way they ever get that save, but then a lot of people would point out (justly) that Terminators have a 5++ so giving that to guardsmen seems ridiculous and I would agree with them. So what do we do? I feel like we should either eliminate the save entirely like Grots, and then factor in a points reduction for that model or we should remove AP from almost every weapon. Why almost every weapon? because realistically this game has quickly become a game of One up, and unless you have a 2+ or a 3+ you are not going to be using your save very often. Hell even my orks can roast 4+ save units with Lootas and a plethora of other weapons.
What is the point of giving a model a saving throw if they almost never get that save because weapons have become high RoF AP 3-6 with almost no down side.
1. Orks get their saves a lot more often in close combat. Tactical marine boltguns ignore ork t-shirt saves. Their 1 hand to hand close combat attack does not.
2. No. Orks shouldn't have invulns. Orks and imperial guard are cannon fodder. Individual models are supposed to be easy to kill.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 19:04:37
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Regular Dakkanaut
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How much of their 6 points is their 6+ save? .5 points? Maybe less? As mentioned they have more strength 4 attacks on the charge than a 17pt assault marine. And you get to use your 6+ save against that assault marine (and almost any unit not designed for CC). You also have a built in ways of rerolling charge ranges, passing leadership tests you'd otherwise fail, and everything else the WAAGH can grant them. 6 pt Boyz are great and their cost is designed knowing they will die to bolter fire. If you get hit by a lascannon, your 6pt boyz are holding up better than tactical marines point for point. Walk into some ruins and you are 17% away from a marine and still costs over 50% less.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 19:08:28
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Krazed Killa Kan
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I think that ork units should have a 6+ FNP for no additional points cost, would help boyz quite a bit.
But yeah, 6+ saves are generally pretty lackluster. But boyz don't and shouldn't have good saves. At least you'll generally get cover saves at range and something in CC.
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"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 19:21:24
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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1. Orks get their saves a lot more often in close combat. Tactical marine boltguns ignore ork t-shirt saves. Their 1 hand to hand close combat attack does not.
2. No. Orks shouldn't have invulns. Orks and imperial guard are cannon fodder. Individual models are supposed to be easy to kill.
1: I mentioned that specifically,
2: I didn't say they should get invuls I was saying that something should be in place where they get their 6+ more often. I am well aware that "Orks are cannon fodder" but in the current game ANY model with a 5+ or a 6+ doesn't get their save, so they are effectively without armor in the shooting phase (The dominant phase in this edition).
I think the idea of switching the save over to a FNP save makes a lot of sense both for the IG and the Tyranids and Orks. Then they get the 5+ 6+ but they aren't over powered.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 19:43:30
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Raging Rat Ogre
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It seems a bit weird that Orks are regarded as extremely tough and therefore difficult to stop, but the only thing protecting them is their T4, a characteristic shared by nearly everyone in the game.
The 6+ armour save is made obsolete by almost everything (then again, the 5+ save of Guard also seems obsolete). EDIT: While they are more likely to get the save in CC, is it really going to make a difference? Unless you're me, and a trukk carrying five Boys is blown up by a missile launcher, and I rolled four sixes - the GW employee I was playing against nearly fainted. And he started getting annoyed when the surviving Orks survived fire from another Space Marine squad with three sixes (he let me take armour saves even though the bolters are AP5, because the Orks had no realistic chance of winning without cheating).
I don't think I ever saw any White Dwarf battle report of 40K, Epic or maybe even Warhammer where the Orks/Orcs ever won. In fact they usually got trounced.
Even Final Liberation was impossible to win as the Orks if you played multiplayer.
Orks and Tyranids seem really uncompetitive, it's always put me off buying a Nid army. I'm not paying £500 just to get my arse kicked.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/19 19:46:23
Upcoming work for 2022:
* Calgar's Barmy Pandemic Special
* Battle Sisters story (untitled)
* T'au story: Full Metal Fury
* 20K: On Eagles' Wings
* 20K: Gods and Daemons
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 20:04:27
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Pyro Pilot of a Triach Stalker
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I think a natural 6+ FNP seems like good general rule that you can then boost with pain boys.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/19 20:16:55
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Master Engineer with a Brace of Pistols
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Yes, I like the FNP idea. Basic 6+ save, can be increased by Pain Boys and Painbosses, and the Snake Bites get +1 to their FNPs (because the Clans deserve individual rules).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 09:49:53
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Tzeentch Veteran Marine with Psychic Potential
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Future War Cultist wrote:Yes, I like the FNP idea. Basic 6+ save, can be increased by Pain Boys and Painbosses, and the Snake Bites get +1 to their FNPs (because the Clans deserve individual rules).
The game needs less FNP, not more.
We already roll to hit, roll to wound and then roll to save if applicable. This ignores Look out sir, which is also a pain. A fnp roll means that there have been 4 dice rolled just to resolve shooting against a 6 point model.
The idea that a unit of Orks will take casualties before it enters effective range has been built into the cost of the unit. The game then is to find ways to not take those casualties and so arrive fresh- trukks, terrain and so on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 10:03:16
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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=Angel= wrote: Future War Cultist wrote:Yes, I like the FNP idea. Basic 6+ save, can be increased by Pain Boys and Painbosses, and the Snake Bites get +1 to their FNPs (because the Clans deserve individual rules).
The game needs less FNP, not more.
We already roll to hit, roll to wound and then roll to save if applicable. This ignores Look out sir, which is also a pain. A fnp roll means that there have been 4 dice rolled just to resolve shooting against a 6 point model.
The idea that a unit of Orks will take casualties before it enters effective range has been built into the cost of the unit. The game then is to find ways to not take those casualties and so arrive fresh- trukks, terrain and so on.
I very much agree with this.
Fact is, Orks and various other armies are not well off right now.
The solution is not to buff orks.
The solution is to reverse codex creep.
ENOUGH WITH GODZILLA HAMMER 40k!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 10:31:59
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Krazed Killa Kan
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=Angel= wrote: Future War Cultist wrote:Yes, I like the FNP idea. Basic 6+ save, can be increased by Pain Boys and Painbosses, and the Snake Bites get +1 to their FNPs (because the Clans deserve individual rules).
The game needs less FNP, not more.
We already roll to hit, roll to wound and then roll to save if applicable. This ignores Look out sir, which is also a pain. A fnp roll means that there have been 4 dice rolled just to resolve shooting against a 6 point model.
The idea that a unit of Orks will take casualties before it enters effective range has been built into the cost of the unit. The game then is to find ways to not take those casualties and so arrive fresh- trukks, terrain and so on.
The problem is when your up against something with ignores cover so they just roll to hit, to wound, and you pick up models. Ork players just want to be able to roll something in a vain attempt to keep their models alive. Also while Orks are designed to take a lot of casualties, the game's power creep has well outpaced the expendability of the average Ork boy. Again the increase in things that ignore cover and can spam a lot of S6+ shooting has really made it hard for Orks to survive. I will say that from my experience having a Painboy in a unit is a night and day difference as often times its the only "save" your getting to take. Even if it just saves 33% of your boyz, it feels nice to be actually able to mitigate the enemy's shooting instead of hoping that the enemy doesn't have enough guns to dakka your army off the board before you can get in close to deal some damage.
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"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 10:46:54
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Vankraken wrote:The problem is when your up against something with ignores cover so they just roll to hit, to wound, and you pick up models. Ork players just want to be able to roll something in a vain attempt to keep their models alive. Also while Orks are designed to take a lot of casualties, the game's power creep has well outpaced the expendability of the average Ork boy. Again the increase in things that ignore cover and can spam a lot of S6+ shooting has really made it hard for Orks to survive. I will say that from my experience having a Painboy in a unit is a night and day difference as often times its the only "save" your getting to take. Even if it just saves 33% of your boyz, it feels nice to be actually able to mitigate the enemy's shooting instead of hoping that the enemy doesn't have enough guns to dakka your army off the board before you can get in close to deal some damage.
Simple:
Nerf the psychic phase.
Nerf Tau
Nerf Eldar
AND ABOLISH ROBOT/GODZILLA HAMMER 40k!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 11:25:01
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
california
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Traditio wrote:Vankraken wrote:The problem is when your up against something with ignores cover so they just roll to hit, to wound, and you pick up models. Ork players just want to be able to roll something in a vain attempt to keep their models alive. Also while Orks are designed to take a lot of casualties, the game's power creep has well outpaced the expendability of the average Ork boy. Again the increase in things that ignore cover and can spam a lot of S6+ shooting has really made it hard for Orks to survive. I will say that from my experience having a Painboy in a unit is a night and day difference as often times its the only "save" your getting to take. Even if it just saves 33% of your boyz, it feels nice to be actually able to mitigate the enemy's shooting instead of hoping that the enemy doesn't have enough guns to dakka your army off the board before you can get in close to deal some damage.
Simple:
Nerf the psychic phase.
Nerf Tau
Nerf Eldar
AND ABOLISH ROBOT/GODZILLA HAMMER 40k!
You forgot nerf space marines. Or is it that you want your codex on top?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 19:12:40
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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=Angel= wrote: Future War Cultist wrote:Yes, I like the FNP idea. Basic 6+ save, can be increased by Pain Boys and Painbosses, and the Snake Bites get +1 to their FNPs (because the Clans deserve individual rules). The game needs less FNP, not more. We already roll to hit, roll to wound and then roll to save if applicable. This ignores Look out sir, which is also a pain. A fnp roll means that there have been 4 dice rolled just to resolve shooting against a 6 point model. The idea that a unit of Orks will take casualties before it enters effective range has been built into the cost of the unit. The game then is to find ways to not take those casualties and so arrive fresh- trukks, terrain and so on. Coming from a Marine player who about 90% of the time gets to use his armor save, and failing that will most likely get cover (Most ignores cover weapons aren't AP3, with a handful of exceptions IE Hellturkey) This is how an Ork player plays the game. Deploy units onto board. Roll to see who goes first, if you go first good on ya, run up the table, Enemies turn they start shooting, pack up models and say GG to your opponent. Yeah that is an exaggeration but when almost every gun in the game has an AP value there isn't much for us to do. You say the game is to find ways to not take casualties and arrive fresh, and then you say Trukkz and terrain (Which are really the only 2 ways to do it). Trukkz suck, they can only carry 12 boyz at most, they are Open topped AV10 transports that can literally explode to AP6. When the trukk does explode you lose about 50% of your boys to the S4 auto hits. Then you take that moral check and with mob rule your going to fail it so you suffer (if your lucky) D6 more S4 hits. What your left with is a handful of boyz that are effectively useless except as an objective holder that has to walk to its area or as a suicide unit to eat up over watch. Use terrain huh? If only every army in the game knew about that trick....wait they do, so that doesn't help at all since we already did that. Furthermore going through terrain means im slowing my boyz down so they are now going slower and will take 1-2 turns longer to get to the enemy which gives the enemy more time to whittle them down. Boyz are supposed to take lots of casualties because its fun and makes other armies feel good, good hooray for them, what I would like though is to actually have a chance of playing as well. You can sit there on your high horse telling me in a polite way to Learn To Play, but there is a reason why Orks didn't place in the LVO and the highest ranking Ork Army was 54th place and the 2nd best ork army was 89th place.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 19:17:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 19:17:49
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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Pain4Pleasure wrote:You forgot nerf space marines. Or is it that you want your codex on top?
1. It was included in NERF PSYKERS!
That said, I also completely agree:
2. NO MORE FREE RAZORBACKS FOR 5 MAN SQUADS!
You can complain about grav centurions, but I doubt that ork players are complaining.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 19:17:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 19:24:03
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Traditio wrote:Pain4Pleasure wrote:You forgot nerf space marines. Or is it that you want your codex on top?
1. It was included in NERF PSYKERS!
That said, I also completely agree:
2. NO MORE FREE RAZORBACKS FOR 5 MAN SQUADS!
You can complain about grav centurions, but I doubt that ork players are complaining.
Just like when SM players take terminators, it makes me happy to see grav cents, because I know they can't make that much of an impact in an army with 6+ armor saves. and a punch of paper thin AV10 vehicles.
Never played against gladius strike force but It would be fun to know im playing against an army with something like 500 more points then me.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 19:27:23
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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SemperMortis wrote:Just like when SM players take terminators, it makes me happy to see grav cents, because I know they can't make that much of an impact in an army with 6+ armor saves. and a punch of paper thin AV10 vehicles.
Actually. Here's a hilarious thought.
Give orcs a 7+ rerollable armor save and a 6+ FNP.
Never played against gladius strike force but It would be fun to know im playing against an army with something like 500 more points then me.
Oh, yeah. I'm not going to lie.
It takes a special kind of donkey cave to use a full gladius battle company (with min-maxed razorbacks) against an ork player in a casual game.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 19:27:56
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 19:30:46
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Traditio wrote:SemperMortis wrote:Just like when SM players take terminators, it makes me happy to see grav cents, because I know they can't make that much of an impact in an army with 6+ armor saves. and a punch of paper thin AV10 vehicles.
Actually. Here's a hilarious thought.
Give orcs a 7+ rerollable armor save and a 6+ FNP.
Never played against gladius strike force but It would be fun to know im playing against an army with something like 500 more points then me.
Oh, yeah. I'm not going to lie.
It takes a special kind of donkey cave to use a full gladius battle company (with min-maxed razorbacks) against an ork player in a casual game.
How would you do a 7+ rerollable armor save? 2 dice? that would take forever. Orks take casualties the same way that a fat guy eats skittles,by the fist full.
And I run into these donkey caves all the time, but usually they are Eldar/Tau players. They feel its fluffy to bring GMC and Titans against my Orks because otherwise they might lose.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 19:32:58
Subject: Re:These Saves are Worthless
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Terminator with Assault Cannon
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SemperMortis wrote:How would you do a 7+ rerollable armor save?
Roll 1d6. "Oh no, I didn't get a 7. Lemme reroll this. NOOO!"
And I run into these donkey caves all the time, but usually they are Eldar/Tau players. They feel its fluffy to bring GMC and Titans against my Orks because otherwise they might lose.
And particular emphasis on "might." Last time I played orks, the guy played trukk and boy spam. I specifically downgraded my battle company to a CAD so I had to pay for everything.
It was still a complete slaughter.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 19:36:14
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 20:17:17
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Fresh-Faced New User
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As a 'Nid player I tend to agree. Gaunts and Genestelers don't get any saves of any kind. The majority of units have a 6+ armor save and the best in the entire codex is a 3+.
On the opponents turn it usually goes: Roll to Hit. Roll to Wound. Remove 3 to 6 models. And on my turn it's: Roll to Hit. Roll to Wound. Roll Saves. Roll Look Out Sir. Remove 1 model.
It makes very little sense since the Gaunts have bone plates on them. What are these used for if they're no better then a leather jacket?
While a swarm army is designed to soak up wounds, it's really frustrating to lose 12 models in one or 2 turns due to no armor save. Your only strategy at this point is to pray for your opponent to have some crappy dice rolls if they have "Ignore Cover" weapons.
The 'Nids aren't very good in C&C, even though on paper it looks like that's what the army was built to do. This is mainly because the majority of the units can't get into C&C. The only viable option is to equip everything with devourers and drown your opponent in dice. It's a shame, because all those claws and sharp teeth would have been much more suitable in C&C rather then hiding in cover.
The codex needs an overhaul. My fear is that instead of improving the army by making them more survivable, GW will focus on some lack-luster formations and won't fix the core mechanics of the army.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 20:21:25
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain
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I'm guessing you missed the part where they have drop pod beasts?Tyrannocytes? On top of that, they have badass firepower and eat things after delivering their cargo. The smaller Tyranids are meant to be expendable. The larger beasts do the legwork. If your Orks are getting trashed, then perhaps try more vehicles? Or some artillery pieces maybe?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/20 20:26:18
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 20:51:59
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Violent Space Marine Dedicated to Khorne
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Im not an Orc player, but have played against them enough to say that I for sure dont think giving them invuln saves is worth doing. Invuln is not the same as armor invuln is MUCH better. Im also not for giving them FNP for free either, I meant that's what you pay for FNP for. Should SOME units get it? yes but not all! I would like to see some Mechanics based off their numbers, like Orc Boyz over X amount of models are fearless or Lootas over X models have +1 ballistic skill, Nobz over x get +1 toughness ext. since this represents orcs belief that they are all good in big numbers DOES have an effect on how things work. I think that is more how you fix orcs but what do i know.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 21:25:42
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I think that one of the biggest hits of the ork codex was the changing of cybork body from a 5+ invulnerable save, to a 6+ FNP. Now the only invulnerable save we will ever have is a KFF, which is only in shooting. And we want to get up close! It's annoying to see that DLS warboss die easy to grav with only LOS to save himself.
It would hilarious if you were able to give the old cybork body to a swarm of boyz (but must have a painboy attached). Even if it had a heafty price tag, I'd still consider it.
Reading some of the other things that people say here, I actually think a better thing for orks would be giving them a +1 to FNP rolls (so a 6+ FNP basic). That means that painboys gives them 4+ FNP, and maybe giving characters who are in a painboy unit a 3+ FNP if they took cybork body too. That would give them almost necron levels of durability (instant death still negates FNP), and durability is a huuuge problem for orks.
This seems like a fairly fluffy way of doing it, and it would help a lot.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/20 21:27:16
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/04/20 21:47:19
Subject: These Saves are Worthless
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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It's fine to have an army that's about losing models instead of making saves, but the real issue with it is that you lose distance. When 15 of my 30 haunts die, my 6 inch move next turn is almost entirely just recovering lost distance. But if I group close together, then I die even faster to flamers and blasts. It's lose-lose. I'd like to see units of larger than 10 models be allowed to remove casualties from anywhere in the squad rather than closest to closest.
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Galef wrote:If you refuse to use rock, you will never beat scissors. |
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