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 TheMeanDM wrote:

However.....obviously he knew that his presence could/would make some kids uncomfortable (or else why make the extra effort to avoid people?).

Because their presence would make him uncomfortable?

Mr. Jackson feels safe in the boys’ bathroom at school

“The guys, they look at me like I’m some kind of freak, or they’re concerned or scared.”

****
I am certain that at times he may have felt uncomfortable in there if he were getting looks from other students who WERE JUST AS UNCOMFORTABLE.

First...he is choosing to go into a bathroom that may make him uncomfortable (even though he says earlier in the interview he is more comfortable with himself than ever before).

Secind....there still appears to be zero regard for the uncomfortable feelings of those he is around.

I am not sure if we touched on the fact that there are six neutral gender bathrooms on their campus...

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Mr. Jackson feels safe in the boys’ bathroom at school

“The guys, they look at me like I’m some kind of freak, or they’re concerned or scared.”

****
I am certain that at times he may have felt uncomfortable in there if he were getting looks from other students who WERE JUST AS UNCOMFORTABLE.

First...he is choosing to go into a bathroom that may make him uncomfortable (even though he says earlier in the interview he is more comfortable with himself than ever before).

Secind....there still appears to be zero regard for the uncomfortable feelings of those he is around.

Because his discomfort is largely based on their discomfort. If their discomfort can be mitigated by dialogue then you break the cycle.

So they are to blame for feeling uncomfortablr when their space is invaded......is that what you are saying?

 TheMeanDM wrote:


First...he is choosing to go into a bathroom that may make him uncomfortable (even though he says earlier in the interview he is more comfortable with himself than ever before).

Which potentially just means that he was more uncomfortable going into the girls toilet.

Or that he's someone who is uncomfortable in public restrooms.

Secind....there still appears to be zero regard for the uncomfortable feelings of those he is around.

Why should there be any regard for their feelings?

If they had complained that they were uncomfortable with black kids using their bathroom, would we be having this discussion?

Or would we just be telling them to get over it?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
So they are to blame for feeling uncomfortablr when their space is invaded......is that what you are saying?

Yes, they are to blame for feeling uncomfortable that someone else is going to the toilet.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
So they are to blame for feeling uncomfortablr when their space is invaded......is that what you are saying?

No one is to blame, there is no need to assign blame here.

The cis-boys in this story would, however, benefit from understanding that just because someone is born a girl, doesn't mean they will stay a girl, that the equipment issued isn't always the correct set.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I am not sure if we touched on the fact that there are six neutral gender bathrooms on their campus...

It's mentioned. It was also mentioned that those bathrooms are not conveniently located. When your school barely gives you enough time to sprint to your next class walking over to the other side of campus to find one of the few bathrooms you're allowed to use isn't always an option.

 insaniak wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
So they are to blame for feeling uncomfortablr when their space is invaded......is that what you are saying?

Yes, they are to blame for feeling uncomfortable that someone else is going to the toilet.

Nobody needs to "blame" anyone. They're just kids, probably still operating under their parents programming.

Instead of picking sides and using fething children to score political points, this could be a great teaching moment.

 plastictrees wrote:

Because his discomfort is largely based on their discomfort. If their discomfort can be mitigated by dialogue then you break the cycle.

I could probably argue that AJ is well aware of many of the crimes perpetrated against trans people in restrooms, and probably has that in the back of his mind. I know I'd be very uncomfortable having to piss or gak or whatever, walk in seeing others in there with the thought, "is today the day they all decide to beat the gak out of me?" It just does not make for a very comfortable time.


I think the sad thing about this story is that, at least with most of the trans people that I know, the beginning of their opening up/transformation began also with moving to a completely new place. Because they were in a new place, new city, school or whatever, they were surrounded by strangers who's only interactions are with them as they are, there are no memories of how they were.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I am not sure if we touched on the fact that there are six neutral gender bathrooms on their campus...

It's mentioned. It was also mentioned that those bathrooms are not conveniently located. When your school barely gives you enough time to sprint to your next class walking over to the other side of campus to find one of the few bathrooms you're allowed to use isn't always an option.

Gee, you could always go to the bathroom gasp during a class! Such an inconceivable method of finding a way to not encounter anyone is completely unheard of! Only if this was thought of before we used the boys bathroom.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Gee, you could always go to the bathroom gasp during a class! Such an inconceivable method of finding a way to not encounter anyone is completely unheard of! Only if this was thought of before we used the boys bathroom.

I was in high school from 00-04, and it was a royal pain in the arse, I cannot believe that it has gotten any easier or better since then.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Gee, you could always go to the bathroom gasp during a class! Such an inconceivable method of finding a way to not encounter anyone is completely unheard of! Only if this was thought of before we used the boys bathroom.

I was in high school from 00-04, and it was a royal pain in the arse, I cannot believe that it has gotten any easier or better since then.

I'm sure if you were transgender and your teachers understood your plight, going to the bathroom during class would be a common feat.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I'm sure if you were transgender and your teachers understood your plight, going to the bathroom during class would be a common feat.

Lol, perhaps... but at least at my school, administrators in that day were worried about students using "i have to go to the bathroom" as an excuse to ditch class.... So every classroom had a sign in-out sheet attached to the "hall pass" and some administrator's job was to go through those logs to ensure students weren't missing class. We had one girl on the volleyball team get sent to detention because that admin person had determined that she had missed "too much" class with bathroom breaks.

And trans or not, administrators like that don't have a sympathetic bone in their bodies, so I doubt they'd care or make an exception.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I'm sure if you were transgender and your teachers understood your plight, going to the bathroom during class would be a common feat.

Lol, perhaps... but at least at my school, administrators in that day were worried about students using "i have to go to the bathroom" as an excuse to ditch class.... So every classroom had a sign in-out sheet attached to the "hall pass" and some administrator's job was to go through those logs to ensure students weren't missing class. We had one girl on the volleyball team get sent to detention because that admin person had determined that she had missed "too much" class with bathroom breaks.

And trans or not, administrators like that don't have a sympathetic bone in their bodies, so I doubt they'd care or make an exception.

And anyone is going to think the trans-kid is going to skip class? Not like Mr. Jackson could get far... with a lettuce wrap on his head.

 feeder wrote:
Perhaps it's time for this time honored treasure

Of course.

Maybe, just maybe, memes are not the best way to convince the opposition...

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Gee, you could always go to the bathroom gasp during a class! Such an inconceivable method of finding a way to not encounter anyone is completely unheard of! Only if this was thought of before we used the boys bathroom.

Or they could go to the next logical option, and set up a roster, with scheduled bathroom times for trans kids, for black kids, for Latino kids, for that kid with the really massive dental attachment, for the redheads, for the kids with any sort of physical disfigurement, for skinny kids, for kids who stutter, and for the foreign exchange students, so that nobody ever has to encounter anybody in the bathroom who doesn't fit their mental image of 'normal'...

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I'm sure if you were transgender and your teachers understood your plight, going to the bathroom during class would be a common feat.

Lol, perhaps... but at least at my school, administrators in that day were worried about students using "i have to go to the bathroom" as an excuse to ditch class.... So every classroom had a sign in-out sheet attached to the "hall pass" and some administrator's job was to go through those logs to ensure students weren't missing class. We had one girl on the volleyball team get sent to detention because that admin person had determined that she had missed "too much" class with bathroom breaks.

And trans or not, administrators like that don't have a sympathetic bone in their bodies, so I doubt they'd care or make an exception.

And anyone is going to think the trans-kid is going to skip class? Not like Mr. Jackson could get far... with a lettuce wrap on his head.

There will always be some...ahem..."answer"...as to why they just cannot do, try, or think of something else.

 TheMeanDM wrote:

There will always be some...ahem..."answer"...as to why they just cannot do, try, or think of something else.

Sure. And that answer is that nobody should have to change their ways to placate those who harbour a prejudice against them or view them as abnormal.

 insaniak wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Gee, you could always go to the bathroom gasp during a class! Such an inconceivable method of finding a way to not encounter anyone is completely unheard of! Only if this was thought of before we used the boys bathroom.

Or they could go to the next logical option, and set up a roster, with scheduled bathroom times for trans kids, for black kids, for Latino kids, for that kid with the really massive dental attachment, for the redheads, for the kids with any sort of physical disfigurement, for skinny kids, for kids who stutter, and for the foreign exchange students, so that nobody ever has to encounter anybody in the bathroom who doesn't fit their mental image of 'normal'...

Aside from the fact that Mr. Jackson is transgendered, I don't think he'd fit any definition of normal anyway. When you hair is the same color and emits light like a glow stick and I can fit my thumb through your earlobe, I think we can classify you as "not the everyday normal."

Also, are we saying people of color are not normal? Isn't that a bit rac- wait, I see what you did there. Sneaky Insaniak, very sneaky.

I hardly think encouraging kids to skip ~5 minutes to go to the toilet is a good message or idea. They could miss some pretty important stuff for their assessment.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Everyone has a right to their feelings....you cannot dictate to someone how they should or should not feel.

Actually, you can. How do you think Jim Crow got changed?

If bigots being uncomfortable is reason enough to have bathroom segregation, then should we put the transgender bathrooms and drinking fountains next to the ones for black people?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I am not sure if we touched on the fact that there are six neutral gender bathrooms on their campus...

It's mentioned. It was also mentioned that those bathrooms are not conveniently located. When your school barely gives you enough time to sprint to your next class walking over to the other side of campus to find one of the few bathrooms you're allowed to use isn't always an option.

Gee, you could always go to the bathroom gasp during a class! Such an inconceivable method of finding a way to not encounter anyone is completely unheard of! Only if this was thought of before we used the boys bathroom.

So a student should miss out on class and parts of their education to use the bathroom?
I know there are times when this is necessary, and I know there are times when you'd want to.
Also asking and leaving during a class is a lot more noticeable than just slipping in when everyone's at lunch. The entire class has to watch you leave and speculate upon why.

At my school, unless you had a medical reason or female reason, you were expected to go during breaks. Classes were 45minutes which was a reasonable time, had you gone in breaks allowed.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I am not sure if we touched on the fact that there are six neutral gender bathrooms on their campus...

It's mentioned. It was also mentioned that those bathrooms are not conveniently located. When your school barely gives you enough time to sprint to your next class walking over to the other side of campus to find one of the few bathrooms you're allowed to use isn't always an option.

Gee, you could always go to the bathroom gasp during a class! Such an inconceivable method of finding a way to not encounter anyone is completely unheard of! Only if this was thought of before we used the boys bathroom.

So a student should miss out on class and parts of their education to use the bathroom?
I know there are times when this is necessary, and I know there are times when you'd want to.
Also asking and leaving during a class is a lot more noticeable than just slipping in when everyone's at lunch. The entire class has to watch you leave and speculate upon why.

At my school, unless you had a medical reason or female reason, you were expected to go during breaks. Classes were 45minutes which was a reasonable time, had you gone in breaks allowed.

This. I had a medical reason and could go to the bathroom whenever I wanted/felt I needed to (though the flip side of that medical condition is that I can literally not go all day unless I'm guzzling litres of water ). I still chose to go during breaks and lunch because sticking your hand up in the middle of the class and being allowed to go to the toilet when everyone else is told to hold it or that they should have gone at lunch/break is a great way of pointing out to everybody in that class that there is something different about you. And too often in schools being different to the "norm" is the first step to being bullied as it is basically free ammunition.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
So they are to blame for feeling uncomfortablr when their space is invaded......is that what you are saying?

That is only valid if we accept your statement that the lavatory is "their space" and someone else using can be considered an "invasion". This clearly is the key point of contention in the whole town.

However, just feeling "uncomfortable" is not necessarily good cause for denying someone else their rights.

Of course you don't agree it's the transexual's right to go into the place where they want.

And so the argument ges around in a circle.

I feel uncomfortable knowing that their are people could be carrying concealed weapons around me all the time. Therefore, we should get rid of Conceal and carry.

That is essentially the argument we are being presented about Transgender Bathrooms by Righties of all people! My how Conservatives have changed!

 Easy E wrote:
I feel uncomfortable knowing that their are people could be carrying concealed weapons around me all the time. Therefore, we should get rid of Conceal and carry.

That is essentially the argument we are being presented about Transgender Bathrooms by Righties of all people! My how Conservatives have changed!

You laugh, but I would actually be all over this. Nothing funner than pissing at a urinal and seeing the guy next to you is armed.

Turns out there have been people getting harassed in bathrooms:

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment?yptr=yahoo

 d-usa wrote:
Turns out there have been people getting harassed in bathrooms:

http://www.vox.com/2016/5/18/11690234/women-bathrooms-harassment?yptr=yahoo

That is because they want them in the MEN's room where they can give them the lockerroom justice they know they deserve.

They get mad if a FemaletoMale person who dresses based upon her gender identity (female) is in the women's room.
They get mad if a MaletoFemale person who dresses based upon her gender identity (male) is in the women's room (supposedly where they want them to be).
They get mad if a Female who doesn't dress or look the way they want them to is in the women's room.

This is why this is so insane... Most of the transgender 'loooka like ah man' people in the women's bathroom are going to be pre-transition FtM or NOT transgender women... Meaning they ARE WHERE YOU TOLD THEM TO BE WITH YOUR LAWS. And yet they still get harassed and beaten. This is 100% about bigotry and violence against Transgender, and nothing about safety or 'think of the children'.