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No, that's not it, vehicles are vehicles, regardlesss of the Tau presences, Chaos forces would want to take over their stuff and whatnot, especially if the Tau are their only foes, yet they never do it, therefore, its not as 100% guaranteed as people would want it

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Tau have limited presence in the warp. Chaos just doesn't care enough to go after them, as it would be like fishing for minnows in a pond full of tuna.

Except the "they don't care enough" argument makes no sense when you're talking about cases where the Tau are fighting Chaos. What is Chaos thinking, "these guys are killing our demons and preventing us from carrying out our evil plans, but we don't care enough to corrupt their computers and auto-win the fight"?

And if limited/nonexistent warp presence is sufficient defense then there's no reason to believe that Culture ships or humans have any warp presence, therefore they should be even more immune to any attempts at Chaos corruption.

I still don't understand how the "scrap virus" is supposed to be delivered. Is the argument that there is a localized change in reality, and it is willed into being at the precise point it needs to be to do its job? Do the Chaos Gods have the knowledge to engineer such a virus to be effective against an AI which is vastly more advanced than any seen before in this setting?

 Kilkrazy wrote:
The GSV would spot the Astronomican as it approaches the 40K galaxy, analyse the signal, extrapolate the existence of warp entities -- The Culture has prior experience in dealing with similar supernatural beings -- etc etc.

... and it's generally inferior to them. The ascended beings in the setting are vastly superior to the Culture and look down on them as backwards hedonistic barbarians.

 Melissia wrote:
... and it's generally inferior to them. The ascended beings in the setting are vastly superior to the Culture and look down on them as backwards hedonistic barbarians.

Which is a rather significant point. The Culture is used to dealing with ascended beings that are vastly superior to it, while 40k doesn't really have anything on that level. Even its high-end stuff is beatable by the Imperium.

You mean, aside from the entire realm of Chaos?

Any of the Chaos Gods are very similar to ascended beings, and the Imperium is quite used to dealing with them.

And the thing is, the Culture would get its ass kicked if ascended beings actually bothered to try to defeat it.

That assumes all ascended beings are of equal power and superior to The Culture. In fact, The Culture wins a proxy war with the Chelgrians' Sublimed component in Look To Windward.

Given the very low tech and social level of the Imperium compared to the Culture's galaxy, it's clear that Chaos is rather low power compared to the Chelgrians, or it would be able to more cause more trouble in the galaxy. Therefore the Culture ship would have no serious problems.

 Melissia wrote:
You mean, aside from the entire realm of Chaos?

Any of the Chaos Gods are very similar to ascended beings, and the Imperium is quite used to dealing with them.

Except, again, Chaos can't be that good because if it was then the Imperium would have no hope of winning. It's pretty much indisputable that the Culture would effortlessly defeat the Imperium, and the only real question is whether they would go for complete slaughter or a more subtle approach of reforming the Imperium over an extended period of time. But Chaos can't defeat the Imperium that effortlessly. They win some battles, but it's still roughly a fair fight and the outcome is usually in doubt. So if A = B and C >>>>>> A then it's pretty clear that C >>>>>> B as well. IOW, 40k's "ascended beings" are serious threats to the Imperium but not likely to accomplish much against the Culture or Culture-verse "ascended beings".

The only way you get Chaos to win this one is if you throw out all canon evidence of Chaos fighting at rough parity with the other 40k factions and declare "Chaos wins because Chaos always wins".

Chaos isn't a no-limits fallacy that can corrupt anyone and anything from any setting. It isn't even this in it's own setting - there are beings, like the Eldar Whiteseers, who are canonically completely immune to it.

That said, if you are interested in how this scenario might go, you might want to try reading The Culture Explores 40k (http://archiveofourown.org/works/649448/navigate), a story with a very, very similar premise, which I feel does a really good job of meshing the two together.

You're base problem is the fact that you STILL seem to be equation chaos's weakness on the table top (and in imperium-focused books) as a sign that it's weak. IF in super man, darksied comes in, kills super man, and murders everyone on earth, it wouldn't be that good of a story, not would it. Just in the same, if the gods of chaos woke up one day, and wiped out the rest of the universe, there would be no more setting, no more game, and no more money making for the company. I wonder why they would do that? Oh, right, 'cause thats dumb. just like (apparently) the ascended beings in the culture's setting don't kill everything: not 'cause they cant, but because then the story would be over.

 Brennonjw wrote:
You're base problem is the fact that you STILL seem to be equation chaos's weakness on the table top (and in imperium-focused books) as a sign that it's weak. IF in super man, darksied comes in, kills super man, and murders everyone on earth, it wouldn't be that good of a story, not would it. Just in the same, if the gods of chaos woke up one day, and wiped out the rest of the universe, there would be no more setting, no more game, and no more money making for the company. I wonder why they would do that? Oh, right, 'cause thats dumb. just like (apparently) the ascended beings in the culture's setting don't kill everything: not 'cause they cant, but because then the story would be over.

Well ok, you can talk all you want about the out-of-universe reasons why GW decided not to make Chaos auto-win everything, but that doesn't change the fact that in-universe they can't. This ridiculous version of Chaos where it auto-corrupts everything it wants, auto-possesses anyone it wants, and always wins because Chaos is awesome does not exist in official sources. It is a fan creation that has nothing to do with 40k as published by the owner of the IP.

as would be comparing 2 separate, unequal power scaled IPs, yet we still do that, don't we?

 Brennonjw wrote:
as would be comparing 2 separate, unequal power scaled IPs, yet we still do that, don't we?

Because we can get numbers for speed/firepower/etc and compare them. The problem with fan-Chaos is that it directly contradicts the official version. It's not just dealing with a hypothetical situation based on the best information available, it's taking what GW has said about how Chaos works and throwing it out for no better reason than "I want Chaos to be more powerful". And at that point we aren't comparing the Culture vs. 40k, we're comparing the Culture vs. some random 40k fanfiction.

Excepting we are given glimpses of the power of Chaos scattered across 30 years of sources. The Necrons commonly defeat foes using their hyper-spatial sciences... daemons find these "new flavors of reality to corrupt", by way of example. Entire species corrupted and mutated, worlds turned into literal pits of Hell through the presence of single entities (see also: the end of the original Ravenor trilogy), entire worlds turned into mutated landscapes where the bones of the dead are rendered into potent drug simply for the amusement of those beings who rule the place.

There is also the fact to consider that the goals of the mortal pawns of Chaos do not align with the goals of their Patrons. The mortals want to win, the gods want the Great Game to continue, perpetually, for that is the source of their power and their amusement, which adds, significantly, to the grim-dark atmosphere of the setting, as it illustrates why turning to the veneration of the Dark Gods is not really an escape from the totalitarianism of the Imperium, it is simply exchanging one set of shackles for another, and this is illustrated as applicable to all other species that fall to Chaos as well. The "total freedom" of Chaos is an illusion, a lie, because to do so is to be made into the plaything of beings so vast, so powerful that they beggar the imagination.

There is, also, the fact to consider that the GW IP is intended to be fluid. Further, the GW/BL team is relatively small, especially compared to the size of the fan-base and it is obvious, throughout all the various discussions on "why is such-and-such this way in 40k?" that fans often put more thought into the "science" behind 40k than the writers do.

 Psienesis wrote:
Excepting we are given glimpses of the power of Chaos scattered across 30 years of sources. The Necrons commonly defeat foes using their hyper-spatial sciences... daemons find these "new flavors of reality to corrupt", by way of example. Entire species corrupted and mutated, worlds turned into literal pits of Hell through the presence of single entities (see also: the end of the original Ravenor trilogy), entire worlds turned into mutated landscapes where the bones of the dead are rendered into potent drug simply for the amusement of those beings who rule the place.

There is also the fact to consider that the goals of the mortal pawns of Chaos do not align with the goals of their Patrons. The mortals want to win, the gods want the Great Game to continue, perpetually, for that is the source of their power and their amusement, which adds, significantly, to the grim-dark atmosphere of the setting, as it illustrates why turning to the veneration of the Dark Gods is not really an escape from the totalitarianism of the Imperium, it is simply exchanging one set of shackles for another, and this is illustrated as applicable to all other species that fall to Chaos as well. The "total freedom" of Chaos is an illusion, a lie, because to do so is to be made into the plaything of beings so vast, so powerful that they beggar the imagination.

There is, also, the fact to consider that the GW IP is intended to be fluid. Further, the GW/BL team is relatively small, especially compared to the size of the fan-base and it is obvious, throughout all the various discussions on "why is such-and-such this way in 40k?" that fans often put more thought into the "science" behind 40k than the writers do.

All this - I always took it that Chaos never wants to win - if they do - the game is over - its like the Shadows in Babylon 5, they would rather let the "enemy" fight them, win or loose battles, but never the war.............

A Culture expedition into the 40K universe would be way too powerful for many of the mian races to deal with - Orks, Humans and even Eldar would be no match - a united Necron Empire with the full power ofC'tan shards might be able to do something.......As far as I am aware the Culture gain their energies from a similar system to Stargates ZPM's- its by no means certain that this hyperspace real is availble from the 40k universe?? The Necrons also use a form f hyperspace to hide things and these are not safe from Daemons

However the Chaos Gods are fed by emotion and even the emotions of the Culture Mind's could conceievably feed them...........

The Culture are not infaliable or indeed all powerful - they step carefully around older civilisations / entiies like tyhe ascended - partly out of respect and partly because they could be swatted. They are unable to conclusively deal with the Affront beyond containtment - given the latter a mind might very well conclude that it does not haev the right to wage war on an entire galaxy......and simply head home, shaking its metaphroical head at the wierdness of biological's.

I love 40k and I love the Culture - and I know where I would rather live so anytime they want they can pick me up or just end the simulation.....................

 Peregrine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Tau have limited presence in the warp. Chaos just doesn't care enough to go after them, as it would be like fishing for minnows in a pond full of tuna.

Except the "they don't care enough" argument makes no sense when you're talking about cases where the Tau are fighting Chaos. What is Chaos thinking, "these guys are killing our demons and preventing us from carrying out our evil plans, but we don't care enough to corrupt their computers and auto-win the fight"?

That's exactly it. Killing demons doesn't matter; the gods can make more.
Their followers losing doesn't matter; the gods are more concerned with spreading their influence than actual military victory.
As tau cannot be corrupted, their involvement matters little to the gods, so there's no point in wasting time with them.

Not to mention that you are thinking of the Chaos Gods as a political entity with strategic goals.
That is not the case; Chaos just wants the galaxy to be in a perpetual state of warfare. Even their followers are encouraged to fight each other, even though it would be a wiser strategy to keep them as a single, cohesive force.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
That is not the case; Chaos just wants the galaxy to be in a perpetual state of warfare. Even their followers are encouraged to fight each other, even though it would be a wiser strategy to keep them as a single, cohesive force.

Do they though?

Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, as long as blood flows.
Nurgle doesn't care so much for eternal strife. He's the grimdark version of the circle of life. All things come to him eventually, regardless of his actions, irrespective of if there is eternal war.
Slaanesh is all... party time... excellent. Eternal war doesn't really do anything to further this goal.
Tzeench is just a gak disturber for the lulz.

So let's look at this from the scenario where the Culture is fighting 40k.

The Culture is murdering the hell out of the Tyranids, Necrons and Orks... (probably trying to reform the Humans, Eldar are probably staying out of sight). Blood is flowing right? Probably in huge amounts too, so Khorne should be a-ok.
Nurgle: Stuff is still dying and being reborn right? The Culture's medical science might be a bother, but that's just a challenge for the Lord of Pestilence to pit himself against, so I can't see this being a show stopper either.
The residents of the Culture are having a good time? Going to reform the rest of the Imperium? Well... Slaanesh is all aboard with this!
Tzzench may or may not interfere... such is the fickle ways of the Changeling, but the appearance of the Culture would be a helluva lot more interesting than 10 000 years of stalemate, so YMMV.

Day 1

The GSV Pointless Theoretical Exercise broadcasts the message "Whoops" before disappearing down a plot hole. PTE arrives in the 40kverse, sets about galaxy-wide exterminatus. Human psykers across the Milky Way get a headache.

Day 2

Hive Fleet Omnom arrives on the other side of the 40k galaxy. Omnom eats the entire Tau Empire before being stopped at Ultramar (because they're Matt Ward's self-inserts) and the Farsight Enclaves (because they're Phil Kelly's self-inserts). PTE detects hive fleet activity but chooses not to intervene, because they're accomplishing the same job that she is (PTE uses female pronouns). Human psykers across the Milky Way get the chills.

Day 3

Segmentum Pacificus has been pacified by PTE. There is no life in the void. The Eye of Terror is 42x its original dimensions and is now visible from Holy Terra (somehow). Human psykers across the Milky Way report hearing chants of "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" while trying to do laundry.

Day 4

O'vesa figures out how to revive Guilleman from stasis, using super-high-tech Earth Caste nanites. Farsight and the Ultramarines' primarch hold the Tyranid hive mass at bay, trading barbs and quips while simultaneously meleeing nids. PTE detects triumphant, synthetic cries ("DEATH HAS CONQUERED ALL") from Segmentum Pacificus while pancaking Mars; decides to just let them be.

"Killing the dead is no fun," she thinks, and slowly squashes a hive city, with the glee of a malicious little girl who is stepping on anthills. She swats an Imperial fleet aside, and starts using effectors to pry all the skulls out of 10,000 buildings at once. They will make fine additions to her collection; the stack of skulls is almost as high as the lake of blood now.

Who knew ethnic cleansing was so invigourating?

Day 5

Commissar Caiaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!11!!1) arrives in Segmentum Obscurus, just as the Astronomican goes dim and every human psyker goes mad, blood pouring from their every orifice. Cain is jumped by his ship's murderous astropath, who screams in a daemonic voice about how "THE FALSE EMPEROR HAS FALLEN! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!" and claws at his face.

With Jurgen's help, he fights her off and congratulates himself on his good luck. Only to realize that he has once again jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, as Holy Terra may have fallen but this sector is next in line. The Tyranids are swarming everywhere, and only two lone warriors are managing to hold them off as entire worlds fall.

Cain reasons that "right next to them" is probably the safest place in the galaxy right now, and is about to actually leap into battle when the plot hole opens again, and disgorges the GSV What the Hell Were You Thinking?! As the nearest sapient being, Cain is pressed into answering WtH's questions, and in the process finds out what is actually going on.

Day 6

Almost everything in the Milky Way is now dead, dying, or in the process of being devoured. Warp storms wrack the entire galaxy, remaking it as unreality. The black hole at the centre no longer exists, and the stars have begun swirling around the Eye of Terror, as it pulls them into its vortex. Khorne rides out triumphant, the Skull Throne pulled like a litter by Bloodthirsters, and is met by a literally blood-soaked Pointless Theoretical Exercise.

Her hull crawls with organic growths and faces that scream for mercy, and is covered in huge spikes. Somehow, she has even grown pauldrons. Millions of warships trail in her wake, made in her image and constantly fighting each other. She BLAMS half of them to make the other half pay attention, and laughs at the explosions of blood.

"WELL DONE, MY MURDEROUS SERVANT," Khorne tells her. "NOW COME TAKE YOUR PLACE AT MY SIDE ... IN MORTAL KOMBAT!!!" He throws off his shirt and/or robes, and charges the only one worthy to fight the Blood God. Excited, amused, and unable to stop herself at this point, PTE crafts larger and larger mountains of flesh and blood to fight him, using her blood reserves and large parts of her hull (and her warships').

The war to end all wars goes on for a day and a night, with no winner being decided.

Day 7

PTE's trillions of victims, who have been slain and reborn as Bloodletters, are cheering on both sides of the conflict. Entire star systems are drenched in boiling-hot blood, as the galaxy is remade in the image of slaughter. Only the Tyrands (who feed on all organic matter) and the Necrons (who don't care as long as others are dying) are untouched by the tide of chaos.

They, and a lone GSV.

Cain, Guilleman, and Farsight arrive at the site of the Blood God's Super Smash Bros. tournament, using the WtH's Culture engines. Daemons immediately phase into existence on board, and Farsight and Guilleman hold them off with their manly swordfighting. Cain holds back; after hearing the WtH describe plot holes, he has A Plan.

"What the hell were you thinking!?" the WtH shouts, to grab everyone else's attention. "This is madness!"

"Madness?!" the PTE yells back. "This! Is! Slaughteeeeeeeer!"

"THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH IN THIS GALAXY," Khorne screams, while punching a moon in half. "AND THAT'S MURDER!"

"No, it's not!" Cain shouts, now standing on the WtH's surface and somehow able to breathe in space.

"And why not?!" the PTE demands, impaled Bloodthirsters twitching on the ends of her spikes.

"Now," the WtH signals Cain, and produces the plot hole in arms' reach of him.

"Because Kingdom Hearts ... " Cain pulls a glowing keyblade out of the plot hole. "Is Light!"

For a second, everyone (except for the WtH) stares at him. Then light sweeps out of the keyblade and fills the whole galaxy, evaporating the daemons, Necrons, and Tyranids and replacing it all with a theme park.

As one, 40k fans throw the book down in disgust. In later forum discussions, however, they all agree it was better than C.S. Goto's work.

Dawn of a New Day

In debt and nearly bankrupted, after this disastrous novel, Games Workshop is bought out by Fantasy Flight. The new version of 40k uses zillions of punch-out cardboard tokens, at a ratio of ten for every prepainted model, and takes four hours to set up. But it sells like proverbial hotcakes, and appeals to a much wider fanbase crossing over from Star Wars, now that there are actual female characters and non-stereotypical guys like in FFG's 40k RPGs.

A renaissance of new players, new fandoms, and even a new competitive circuit sweeps the grimdark. Some players observe that it's more welcoming and diverse than ever.

"Just as planned," an avian voice cackles ...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
That's exactly it. Killing demons doesn't matter; the gods can make more.
Their followers losing doesn't matter; the gods are more concerned with spreading their influence than actual military victory.
As tau cannot be corrupted, their involvement matters little to the gods, so there's no point in wasting time with them.

So then why do these fights happen? You're essentially saying here "Chaos has no goals and doesn't care if it wins or loses", and I think it should be obvious why this isn't a reasonable interpretation of the fluff.

And, again, the problem is you keep talking about how Chaos will magically gain capabilities that it doesn't demonstrate in the fluff, with no evidence to support the claim that Chaos is deliberately holding back when it fails to use them in the fluff (even in situations where it would win by doing so). It would be one thing if half the time Chaos did hijack Tau crisis suits and turn them against their allies, and you had to come up with an explanation for the times when it doesn't, but there's no evidence to suggest that they can do it at all. The only reason to assume some kind of magic "Chaos will hack it if they care enough to try" rule is if you only care about making 40k seem more powerful, regardless of the evidence to support it.

 keezus wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
That is not the case; Chaos just wants the galaxy to be in a perpetual state of warfare. Even their followers are encouraged to fight each other, even though it would be a wiser strategy to keep them as a single, cohesive force.

Do they though?

Khorne cares not from where the blood flows, as long as blood flows.
Nurgle doesn't care so much for eternal strife. He's the grimdark version of the circle of life. All things come to him eventually, regardless of his actions, irrespective of if there is eternal war.
Slaanesh is all... party time... excellent. Eternal war doesn't really do anything to further this goal.
Tzeench is just a gak disturber for the lulz.

So let's look at this from the scenario where the Culture is fighting 40k.

The Culture is murdering the hell out of the Tyranids, Necrons and Orks... (probably trying to reform the Humans, Eldar are probably staying out of sight). Blood is flowing right? Probably in huge amounts too, so Khorne should be a-ok.
Nurgle: Stuff is still dying and being reborn right? The Culture's medical science might be a bother, but that's just a challenge for the Lord of Pestilence to pit himself against, so I can't see this being a show stopper either.
The residents of the Culture are having a good time? Going to reform the rest of the Imperium? Well... Slaanesh is all aboard with this!
Tzzench may or may not interfere... such is the fickle ways of the Changeling, but the appearance of the Culture would be a helluva lot more interesting than 10 000 years of stalemate, so YMMV.

There is more decay and pestilence in a war due to all the dead bodies. Not to mention that Nurgle also represents the will to survive and the concept of survival of the fittest.
Khorne is pretty obvious.
Slaanesh isn't just pleasure, but also pain. The whole party time slaanesh is only half of the story; the complete story would be a party thrown by Marquis de Sade, complete with living orphans nailed to the wall. Lot of pain in war.

Its more likely that the gods will intervene just enough to stop the Culture from wiping everyone out, but not enough to get rid of them permanently. That way the gods would still have their free-for-all, complete with a new player.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its more likely that the gods will intervene just enough to stop the Culture from wiping everyone out, but not enough to get rid of them permanently. That way the gods would still have their free-for-all, complete with a new player.

Alternatively, the gods will try to intervene, fail horribly because any faction that fights at anywhere near parity with the Imperium has no chance against the Culture, and eventually fade away into nothingness because the entire 40k galaxy is dead and nothing is left to worship them. Any other outcome requires making up a special fan version of 40k where Chaos is massively buffed for the sake of letting 40k win, a version that has nothing to do with the one published by GW.

 Peregrine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
That's exactly it. Killing demons doesn't matter; the gods can make more.
Their followers losing doesn't matter; the gods are more concerned with spreading their influence than actual military victory.
As tau cannot be corrupted, their involvement matters little to the gods, so there's no point in wasting time with them.

So then why do these fights happen? You're essentially saying here "Chaos has no goals and doesn't care if it wins or loses", and I think it should be obvious why this isn't a reasonable interpretation of the fluff.

Because its fun to watch? I said no strategic goal. Entertainment is not a strategic goal.
Just like how it wouldn't be fun to curbstomp your opponent in a game, it wouldn't be fun for the gods to do the same.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its more likely that the gods will intervene just enough to stop the Culture from wiping everyone out, but not enough to get rid of them permanently. That way the gods would still have their free-for-all, complete with a new player.

Alternatively, the gods will try to intervene, fail horribly because any faction that fights at anywhere near parity with the Imperium has no chance against the Culture, and eventually fade away into nothingness because the entire 40k galaxy is dead and nothing is left to worship them. Any other outcome requires making up a special fan version of 40k where Chaos is massively buffed for the sake of letting 40k win, a version that has nothing to do with the one published by GW.

Assuming that all factions are at their full strength, or want to destroy the imperium.

Necrons just woke up, and its implied their full arsenal isn't online yet. Not to mention they are no longer a single force, but rather a bunch of rival dynasties, who have different objectives.

The gods just want to troll the imperium.

The chaos cultists want to destroy the imperium with blessing from the gods, who as aforementioned would rather keep their favorite play mate alive.

Tau are about even.

CWE just want to stay on their Craft Worlds and survive. Destroying the IoM is not a primary objective. When they do interact with the IoM, its rarely open combat.

Dark Eldar don't want to destroy the IoM. Destroying their primary source of slaves would be counterproductive.

Orks are about even, its just they reproduce a lot.

Tyranids are weird. They are meant to be an unstoppable, apocalyptic event, yet they get beaten at times. Generally when they lose though its because the IoM sacrificed something vital.

 Jewelfox wrote:
Day 1

Spoiler:

The GSV Pointless Theoretical Exercise broadcasts the message "Whoops" before disappearing down a plot hole. PTE arrives in the 40kverse, sets about galaxy-wide exterminatus. Human psykers across the Milky Way get a headache.

Day 2

Hive Fleet Omnom arrives on the other side of the 40k galaxy. Omnom eats the entire Tau Empire before being stopped at Ultramar (because they're Matt Ward's self-inserts) and the Farsight Enclaves (because they're Phil Kelly's self-inserts). PTE detects hive fleet activity but chooses not to intervene, because they're accomplishing the same job that she is (PTE uses female pronouns). Human psykers across the Milky Way get the chills.

Day 3

Segmentum Pacificus has been pacified by PTE. There is no life in the void. The Eye of Terror is 42x its original dimensions and is now visible from Holy Terra (somehow). Human psykers across the Milky Way report hearing chants of "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" while trying to do laundry.

Day 4

O'vesa figures out how to revive Guilleman from stasis, using super-high-tech Earth Caste nanites. Farsight and the Ultramarines' primarch hold the Tyranid hive mass at bay, trading barbs and quips while simultaneously meleeing nids. PTE detects triumphant, synthetic cries ("DEATH HAS CONQUERED ALL") from Segmentum Pacificus while pancaking Mars; decides to just let them be.

"Killing the dead is no fun," she thinks, and slowly squashes a hive city, with the glee of a malicious little girl who is stepping on anthills. She swats an Imperial fleet aside, and starts using effectors to pry all the skulls out of 10,000 buildings at once. They will make fine additions to her collection; the stack of skulls is almost as high as the lake of blood now.

Who knew ethnic cleansing was so invigourating?

Day 5

Commissar Caiaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!11!!1) arrives in Segmentum Obscurus, just as the Astronomican goes dim and every human psyker goes mad, blood pouring from their every orifice. Cain is jumped by his ship's murderous astropath, who screams in a daemonic voice about how "THE FALSE EMPEROR HAS FALLEN! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!" and claws at his face.

With Jurgen's help, he fights her off and congratulates himself on his good luck. Only to realize that he has once again jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, as Holy Terra may have fallen but this sector is next in line. The Tyranids are swarming everywhere, and only two lone warriors are managing to hold them off as entire worlds fall.

Cain reasons that "right next to them" is probably the safest place in the galaxy right now, and is about to actually leap into battle when the plot hole opens again, and disgorges the GSV What the Hell Were You Thinking?! As the nearest sapient being, Cain is pressed into answering WtH's questions, and in the process finds out what is actually going on.

Day 6

Almost everything in the Milky Way is now dead, dying, or in the process of being devoured. Warp storms wrack the entire galaxy, remaking it as unreality. The black hole at the centre no longer exists, and the stars have begun swirling around the Eye of Terror, as it pulls them into its vortex. Khorne rides out triumphant, the Skull Throne pulled like a litter by Bloodthirsters, and is met by a literally blood-soaked Pointless Theoretical Exercise.

Her hull crawls with organic growths and faces that scream for mercy, and is covered in huge spikes. Somehow, she has even grown pauldrons. Millions of warships trail in her wake, made in her image and constantly fighting each other. She BLAMS half of them to make the other half pay attention, and laughs at the explosions of blood.

"WELL DONE, MY MURDEROUS SERVANT," Khorne tells her. "NOW COME TAKE YOUR PLACE AT MY SIDE ... IN MORTAL KOMBAT!!!" He throws off his shirt and/or robes, and charges the only one worthy to fight the Blood God. Excited, amused, and unable to stop herself at this point, PTE crafts larger and larger mountains of flesh and blood to fight him, using her blood reserves and large parts of her hull (and her warships').

The war to end all wars goes on for a day and a night, with no winner being decided.

Day 7

PTE's trillions of victims, who have been slain and reborn as Bloodletters, are cheering on both sides of the conflict. Entire star systems are drenched in boiling-hot blood, as the galaxy is remade in the image of slaughter. Only the Tyrands (who feed on all organic matter) and the Necrons (who don't care as long as others are dying) are untouched by the tide of chaos.

They, and a lone GSV.

Cain, Guilleman, and Farsight arrive at the site of the Blood God's Super Smash Bros. tournament, using the WtH's Culture engines. Daemons immediately phase into existence on board, and Farsight and Guilleman hold them off with their manly swordfighting. Cain holds back; after hearing the WtH describe plot holes, he has A Plan.

"What the hell were you thinking!?" the WtH shouts, to grab everyone else's attention. "This is madness!"

"Madness?!" the PTE yells back. "This! Is! Slaughteeeeeeeer!"

"THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH IN THIS GALAXY," Khorne screams, while punching a moon in half. "AND THAT'S MURDER!"

"No, it's not!" Cain shouts, now standing on the WtH's surface and somehow able to breathe in space.

"And why not?!" the PTE demands, impaled Bloodthirsters twitching on the ends of her spikes.

"Now," the WtH signals Cain, and produces the plot hole in arms' reach of him.

"Because Kingdom Hearts ... " Cain pulls a glowing keyblade out of the plot hole. "Is Light!"

For a second, everyone (except for the WtH) stares at him. Then light sweeps out of the keyblade and fills the whole galaxy, evaporating the daemons, Necrons, and Tyranids and replacing it all with a theme park.

As one, 40k fans throw the book down in disgust. In later forum discussions, however, they all agree it was better than C.S. Goto's work.

Dawn of a New Day

In debt and nearly bankrupted, after this disastrous novel, Games Workshop is bought out by Fantasy Flight. The new version of 40k uses zillions of punch-out cardboard tokens, at a ratio of ten for every prepainted model, and takes four hours to set up. But it sells like proverbial hotcakes, and appeals to a much wider fanbase crossing over from Star Wars, now that there are actual female characters and non-stereotypical guys like in FFG's 40k RPGs.

A renaissance of new players, new fandoms, and even a new competitive circuit sweeps the grimdark. Some players observe that it's more welcoming and diverse than ever.

"Just as planned," an avian voice cackles ...

I liked this story, except it needed more multilazors


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What would happen if a ship from 40K fell into The Culture's galaxy?

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Jewelfox wrote:
Day 1

Spoiler:

The GSV Pointless Theoretical Exercise broadcasts the message "Whoops" before disappearing down a plot hole. PTE arrives in the 40kverse, sets about galaxy-wide exterminatus. Human psykers across the Milky Way get a headache.

Day 2

Hive Fleet Omnom arrives on the other side of the 40k galaxy. Omnom eats the entire Tau Empire before being stopped at Ultramar (because they're Matt Ward's self-inserts) and the Farsight Enclaves (because they're Phil Kelly's self-inserts). PTE detects hive fleet activity but chooses not to intervene, because they're accomplishing the same job that she is (PTE uses female pronouns). Human psykers across the Milky Way get the chills.

Day 3

Segmentum Pacificus has been pacified by PTE. There is no life in the void. The Eye of Terror is 42x its original dimensions and is now visible from Holy Terra (somehow). Human psykers across the Milky Way report hearing chants of "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD" while trying to do laundry.

Day 4

O'vesa figures out how to revive Guilleman from stasis, using super-high-tech Earth Caste nanites. Farsight and the Ultramarines' primarch hold the Tyranid hive mass at bay, trading barbs and quips while simultaneously meleeing nids. PTE detects triumphant, synthetic cries ("DEATH HAS CONQUERED ALL") from Segmentum Pacificus while pancaking Mars; decides to just let them be.

"Killing the dead is no fun," she thinks, and slowly squashes a hive city, with the glee of a malicious little girl who is stepping on anthills. She swats an Imperial fleet aside, and starts using effectors to pry all the skulls out of 10,000 buildings at once. They will make fine additions to her collection; the stack of skulls is almost as high as the lake of blood now.

Who knew ethnic cleansing was so invigourating?

Day 5

Commissar Caiaphas Cain (HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!11!!1) arrives in Segmentum Obscurus, just as the Astronomican goes dim and every human psyker goes mad, blood pouring from their every orifice. Cain is jumped by his ship's murderous astropath, who screams in a daemonic voice about how "THE FALSE EMPEROR HAS FALLEN! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!" and claws at his face.

With Jurgen's help, he fights her off and congratulates himself on his good luck. Only to realize that he has once again jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire, as Holy Terra may have fallen but this sector is next in line. The Tyranids are swarming everywhere, and only two lone warriors are managing to hold them off as entire worlds fall.

Cain reasons that "right next to them" is probably the safest place in the galaxy right now, and is about to actually leap into battle when the plot hole opens again, and disgorges the GSV What the Hell Were You Thinking?! As the nearest sapient being, Cain is pressed into answering WtH's questions, and in the process finds out what is actually going on.

Day 6

Almost everything in the Milky Way is now dead, dying, or in the process of being devoured. Warp storms wrack the entire galaxy, remaking it as unreality. The black hole at the centre no longer exists, and the stars have begun swirling around the Eye of Terror, as it pulls them into its vortex. Khorne rides out triumphant, the Skull Throne pulled like a litter by Bloodthirsters, and is met by a literally blood-soaked Pointless Theoretical Exercise.

Her hull crawls with organic growths and faces that scream for mercy, and is covered in huge spikes. Somehow, she has even grown pauldrons. Millions of warships trail in her wake, made in her image and constantly fighting each other. She BLAMS half of them to make the other half pay attention, and laughs at the explosions of blood.

"WELL DONE, MY MURDEROUS SERVANT," Khorne tells her. "NOW COME TAKE YOUR PLACE AT MY SIDE ... IN MORTAL KOMBAT!!!" He throws off his shirt and/or robes, and charges the only one worthy to fight the Blood God. Excited, amused, and unable to stop herself at this point, PTE crafts larger and larger mountains of flesh and blood to fight him, using her blood reserves and large parts of her hull (and her warships').

The war to end all wars goes on for a day and a night, with no winner being decided.

Day 7

PTE's trillions of victims, who have been slain and reborn as Bloodletters, are cheering on both sides of the conflict. Entire star systems are drenched in boiling-hot blood, as the galaxy is remade in the image of slaughter. Only the Tyrands (who feed on all organic matter) and the Necrons (who don't care as long as others are dying) are untouched by the tide of chaos.

They, and a lone GSV.

Cain, Guilleman, and Farsight arrive at the site of the Blood God's Super Smash Bros. tournament, using the WtH's Culture engines. Daemons immediately phase into existence on board, and Farsight and Guilleman hold them off with their manly swordfighting. Cain holds back; after hearing the WtH describe plot holes, he has A Plan.

"What the hell were you thinking!?" the WtH shouts, to grab everyone else's attention. "This is madness!"

"Madness?!" the PTE yells back. "This! Is! Slaughteeeeeeeer!"

"THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH IN THIS GALAXY," Khorne screams, while punching a moon in half. "AND THAT'S MURDER!"

"No, it's not!" Cain shouts, now standing on the WtH's surface and somehow able to breathe in space.

"And why not?!" the PTE demands, impaled Bloodthirsters twitching on the ends of her spikes.

"Now," the WtH signals Cain, and produces the plot hole in arms' reach of him.

"Because Kingdom Hearts ... " Cain pulls a glowing keyblade out of the plot hole. "Is Light!"

For a second, everyone (except for the WtH) stares at him. Then light sweeps out of the keyblade and fills the whole galaxy, evaporating the daemons, Necrons, and Tyranids and replacing it all with a theme park.

As one, 40k fans throw the book down in disgust. In later forum discussions, however, they all agree it was better than C.S. Goto's work.

Dawn of a New Day

In debt and nearly bankrupted, after this disastrous novel, Games Workshop is bought out by Fantasy Flight. The new version of 40k uses zillions of punch-out cardboard tokens, at a ratio of ten for every prepainted model, and takes four hours to set up. But it sells like proverbial hotcakes, and appeals to a much wider fanbase crossing over from Star Wars, now that there are actual female characters and non-stereotypical guys like in FFG's 40k RPGs.

A renaissance of new players, new fandoms, and even a new competitive circuit sweeps the grimdark. Some players observe that it's more welcoming and diverse than ever.

"Just as planned," an avian voice cackles ...

I liked this story, except it needed more multilazors


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What would happen if a ship from 40K fell into The Culture's galaxy?

It might scratch the paint. That's about it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Its more likely that the gods will intervene just enough to stop the Culture from wiping everyone out, but not enough to get rid of them permanently. That way the gods would still have their free-for-all, complete with a new player.

Alternatively, the gods will try to intervene, fail horribly because any faction that fights at anywhere near parity with the Imperium has no chance against the Culture, and eventually fade away into nothingness because the entire 40k galaxy is dead and nothing is left to worship them. Any other outcome requires making up a special fan version of 40k where Chaos is massively buffed for the sake of letting 40k win, a version that has nothing to do with the one published by GW.

Of course some of those who have previously sublimed may have created the 40k universe as game zone - say a group of four friends who ascended as a group and now taken on roles as Chaos Gods - they complain to the Culture who horrifed about upsetting their elders and leave with much appologies..

Another view:

Depending on the interpretation, If there is life and emotion there are the Chaos Gods - Do the Culture Mind and drones feed them like any other life form?

If the Culture ship wipes the board, life will begin again and the cycle will restart.

I liked the short story by Jewelfox but really did not understand the ending :(

Slaanesh is all... party time... excellent. Eternal war doesn't really do anything to further this goal.

A facile understanding of Slaanesh, that.

The greatest of celebrations, the wildest of parties, the place where there are such pleasures, and such pains, to shatter the frail self-deception that is "sanity", where one is free to act without sense of morality, inhibition or restraint...

... is in the very heart of a bloody melee.

 Psienesis wrote:

Slaanesh is all... party time... excellent. Eternal war doesn't really do anything to further this goal.

A facile understanding of Slaanesh, that.

The greatest of celebrations, the wildest of parties, the place where there are such pleasures, and such pains, to shatter the frail self-deception that is "sanity", where one is free to act without sense of morality, inhibition or restraint...

... is in the very heart of a bloody melee.

^ Yep.
One could live out all of one's wildest, most sadistic fantasies on the battlefield. Especially afterwards, where there are still some prisoners and wounded lying around.
And that's not even getting into masochism.

Slaanesh...is not as fun as people seem to want to believe. She's actually pretty scary.

Well, technically the Purge wins as the elimination of all life in the Galaxy is their endgame, so they die happy knowing their goals have been fulfilled.

Also, Chaos may be able to do something, in part thanks to the Culture ship. We know from the Horus Heresy that the genocide of 12 billion people made a 'psychic death scream that was said to be louder than the astronomican' - if the Culture start killing everything on a even grander scale, the Warp is going to be thrown into turmoil - the psychic death scream of trillions. Most factions would find it even harder to respond as warp storms of unmatched ferocity erupt around the Culture ship and it's trail of destruction (who in turn finds itself starting to have to navigate around warp anomalies and its sensors having to deal with pure unreality bleeding into the materium.

At that point, I would say it depends on whether the Culture manages to avoid entering a warp storm and being lost to the abyss (I would also say that Khorne might be impressed by the sheer scale of death the ship is capable of causing, or alternatively angered by their cowardice, and cuts open a warp rift on top of the vessel with his sword in order to meet this engine of unmatched destruction).

So yeah, the Culture is on a whole other scale to 40K and would almost certainly win, but might be undone by the fact that 40K is as much fantasy as (in fact probably more than) it is sci-fi.

 Robin5t wrote:


That said, if you are interested in how this scenario might go, you might want to try reading The Culture Explores 40k (http://archiveofourown.org/works/649448/navigate), a story with a very, very similar premise, which I feel does a really good job of meshing the two together.

I'm up to chapter 36 so far, it's very good .

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Slaanesh is all... party time... excellent. Eternal war doesn't really do anything to further this goal.

A facile understanding of Slaanesh, that.

The greatest of celebrations, the wildest of parties, the place where there are such pleasures, and such pains, to shatter the frail self-deception that is "sanity", where one is free to act without sense of morality, inhibition or restraint...

... is in the very heart of a bloody melee.

^ Yep.
One could live out all of one's wildest, most sadistic fantasies on the battlefield. Especially afterwards, where there are still some prisoners and wounded lying around.
And that's not even getting into masochism.

Slaanesh...is not as fun as people seem to want to believe. She's actually pretty scary.

I'm not sure I grasp the thrust of your argument. You're trying to claim that Slaanesh would find the grimdark status quo better than a civilization which is basically the Eldar before the fall? The technology of Culture is such that its inhabitants are able to easily service their every whim due to living in a post scarcity society. Their technology allows for levels of drug use, body modification, pain nulling/augmentation, pleasure and hedonism that the minds in 40k could only dream of. Backups of its citizens means that death isn't permanent and any debauchery (if desired) can continue indefinitely...

I don't see how "the battlefield" is a necessary (or even beneficial) component for unbridled hedonism.