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I've been thinking of getting a tidewall for a while, but if my opponent is literally able to yank it across the board and make it his, I'm going to have some second thoughts. Like, if shifting world scape can allow you to comendere your opponent's ageis defense line, or any other fortification, I'll be a bit disappointed.

Does it have a terrain type?

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Does it have a terrain type?

Yes, they are Battlefield Debris, so yes they can be moved with Shifting Worldscape

Would you pick up the whole aegis defence line, or one segment? Hmm...

I'd say probably only one segment, since each is technically a piece of terrain and the power only allows you to move a single piece of terrain.

That would probably cause some issues with Building that have Icarus Lascannons Emplacements and the like, since technically they are a separate terrain piece even when modeled on top of a building iirc...

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I'd say probably only one segment, since each is technically a piece of terrain and the power only allows you to move a single piece of terrain.

That would probably cause some issues with Building that have Icarus Lascannons Emplacements and the like, since technically they are a separate terrain piece even when modeled on top of a building iirc...

But they are all incorporated in to one set piece of terrain when putting it on the table. So, I'd have to disagree with this. When you move a tank, do you leave the turret behind? When you move a unit, do you get to leave models behind (i.e. out of Coherency)?

I feel like the author of these powers was high as **** when he wrote them. They are so wacky!

I can see this one having a lot of issues.

the escape hatch.. causes me a headache..

 Charistoph wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I'd say probably only one segment, since each is technically a piece of terrain and the power only allows you to move a single piece of terrain.

That would probably cause some issues with Building that have Icarus Lascannons Emplacements and the like, since technically they are a separate terrain piece even when modeled on top of a building iirc...

But they are all incorporated in to one set piece of terrain when putting it on the table. So, I'd have to disagree with this. When you move a tank, do you leave the turret behind? When you move a unit, do you get to leave models behind (i.e. out of Coherency)?

The tank example is bad (since the turrets are a part of the tank and are never a separate thing) but I see what you mean with the unit.

However, we are only ever told to move a piece of terrain. Even if the entire Aegis Defense Line is purchased together as a group (like they are), there are no rules stating they are treated as a single piece of terrain. Powers that move units tell you to, well, move the unit. Furthermore, units that move have a rule telling them that no models in them can't move out of coherency.

Groups of terrain have no such rule that permanently links them together, or forces coherency. A more equivalent (but still not perfect because of coherency) example would be a power that tells you to move a single model. Would you move the entire unit if you are told to move a single model?

I believe charistoph was referring to gun emplacements purchased for and placed on buildings being treated as emplaced weapons. A quad gun next to an ADL would be targeted separately, where as a quad gun on a bastion would not

As for ADLs and tidewalls, I think if the composition lists them separately, it's fair that each piece listed is treated separately

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
The tank example is bad (since the turrets are a part of the tank and are never a separate thing) but I see what you mean with the unit.

In games terms, they are all one piece?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
However, we are only ever told to move a piece of terrain. Even if the entire Aegis Defense Line is purchased together as a group (like they are), there are no rules stating they are treated as a single piece of terrain. Powers that move units tell you to, well, move the unit. Furthermore, units that move have a rule telling them that no models in them can't move out of coherency.

Groups of terrain have no such rule that permanently links them together, or forces coherency. A more equivalent (but still not perfect because of coherency) example would be a power that tells you to move a single model. Would you move the entire unit if you are told to move a single model?

The ADL is listed as one piece of terrain, though. Walls, Gun Emplacement, everything. It is never noted as being separate pieces of terrain internally. And yes, the ADL does require all those segments to be placed together. Those things like "Defense Lines" and "Gun Emplacements" in the ADL are either part of its composition or "purchased as an upgrade to a fortification".

If you move a Bastion, and it has a Gun Emplacement on top, why wouldn't the Gun Emplacement NOT move with it?

If you're only talking about one of those Super Terrains which are made up of numerous pieces of Terrain (like the Strongpoint) I can agree as we are looking at a "unit" of Terrain.

They are listed as separate pieces under composition on the datasheet

The segments of the ADL have to be placed together, not all of them combined. You can deploy them as four blocks of two segments if you like. There's no way that geo power is able to move all eight segments at once.

 jokerkd wrote:
They are listed as separate pieces under composition on the datasheet

No, the ADL is listed as having different sections of Defense Line in the Composition, not as separate pieces of Terrain.

So if you target a Fortress of Redemption, do you move the whoe thing or only one portion?

logically only one porttion, as the FOR is actually four conjoined buildings. Might cause a headache for the guy having to break his fortification for an a-hole SM psyker

If someone demanded I snap my fortification into pieces, I think I would become less than pleased.

If you are playing in events check with the TO. NOVA has ruled purchased building such as gun rig, etc can not be moved with this power ( I don't remember if it is enemy buildings can't be moved or any purchased buildings). They are not sure how they will rule later if the powers will be allowed at all but are giving it time to see how they play out.

We were discussing this power at an event this weekend and apparently some items like sky shields and the void shield generator are listed as buildings and relate to vehicles (I have not checked the rules yet to see what they are referencing) rules so can not be moved via this power as they are not listed as terrain. Everything Tau is labeled as battlefield terrain and can be moved at any event unless the TO's say it can't.

Personally I see fits breaking out over this power due to broken terrain and models as the biggest issue heh.

A void shield generator, and i believe everything with a datasheet in stronghold assault is list as terrain type: x

It's not surprising that tournaments are already trying to keep the effect to a minimum, but personally i think they should at least see how it goes first

 Fishboy wrote:
If you are playing in events check with the TO. NOVA has ruled purchased building such as gun rig, etc can not be moved with this power ( I don't remember if it is enemy buildings can't be moved or any purchased buildings). They are not sure how they will rule later if the powers will be allowed at all but are giving it time to see how they play out.

We were discussing this power at an event this weekend and apparently some items like sky shields and the void shield generator are listed as buildings and relate to vehicles (I have not checked the rules yet to see what they are referencing) rules so can not be moved via this power as they are not listed as terrain. Everything Tau is labeled as battlefield terrain and can be moved at any event unless the TO's say it can't.

Personally I see fits breaking out over this power due to broken terrain and models as the biggest issue heh.

I see where you're going with that. I like the logic there, but it wouldn't work with the skyshield, just buildings. the skyshield is just a piece of terrain, whereas buildings are treated as vehicles when determining how powers affect them.