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So I just finished Path of Heaven,
and


Now I haven't read much/any fluff on this Paternova, besides the mention in the novel of him being the leader of the Navis Nobilite, but lexicanum has some info apparently from white dwarf 140.
Is this still "canon"? aka paternova lives 1000's of years, is elected via battle royal, mutates into a huge super nav mutant upon ascension?

It always pays to figure out who would gain the most from any situation when looking for the architect of said situation, and I have to say, the Navigators had the most to gain/lose out of the whole situation.

I've never read any theories on the Navis Nobilite actually starting the heresy, but its interesting to see them as players, rather than pawns.

I don't see why they would. They don't really benefit from the Imperium having a civil war do they?

Seeing as how Erebus set the whole Heresy in motion I think its unlikely that the Navis Nobility: introduced Chaos to Colchis, pushed Erebus to join the Word Bearers, made a pact with the Warp Gods to support and convert Horus etc. etc. Its just way too far out there to have any credibility.

Furthermore, yes the navigators turn into monstrosities towards older age. Its the toll their mutation takes on them. However, from newer fluff it is stated that they elect the leader from one of the weaker houses, so that no large house gets too much influence from the position.

The Navis knew what was going to happen to them once the webway was sorted and obviously didn't like the idea as they are of course one of the most powerful/rich faction's on terra. I feel though that they would've been more likely to help Magnus in what he did rather than the whole thing.

Also Path of Heaven? HH or beast arises?

it's possiable the nobilite just didn't alert the IoM to the stirrings of heresy

Magnus was one of the first to become aware of the HH, and he broke the psychic defenses in a secret meeting without navigators present. Its also unlikely they became aware sooner than others, they can't see the future. The ones that were serving with traitor forces would not have been able to communicate unless allowed to do so. The HH was quite well planned and they would not have just let someone as important as a navigator run around, they can't just steal a ship or get an astropathic message out. The HH events are just too coincidental and secretive for the navis nobilite to have any significant impact/part.

Even if they knew, who would believe them, just look at Magnus. The Emperor would never have believed 'just' a navigator about Horus. So either loyalist or traitor, having prior knowledge would have given them little impact.

Considering that the Paternova's power to increase navigator's ability is stronger to those of his own house, which side do you think the Paternova is on? Coupled with the ruinstorm, I would hate to think Horus would ignore this possible advantage over the loyalists. Or do you think he even knows about this?

My problem with the theory is that the paternova was basically stuck on the biggest loyalist stronghold. He would not have been able to help or get messages out without being detected.
As for abilities, navigators can't fly through warpstorms in most cases, thats why traitor forces use sorcery to operate. Horus has sorcery and navigators (coerced or willing), I don't see the direct military advantage. How does the paternova increase navigator power? Their power is based on bloodline and breeding.

Read the background. It says paternovas make all navigators more powerful and this effect is increased for those of the same house. So if Horus made sure to have the paternovas house as navigators for his forces they would be more powerful. Also the paternova is super powerful, im sure he could get messages in and out of terra. There are plenty of traitors on terra during the heresy. The one Garro novel mentions the vindicare sniper from that assassin kill team novel finding his way to terra and actively hunting that one saint from flight of the eisenstein.


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Also if mars can rebel along with half of almost every other imperial institution, its safe to say that the navis nobilite would have split loyalty as well. Especially considering they knew that they were going to be culled following the successful completion of the webway project. This isnt just my opinion either. Its flat out stated that they were aware in Path of Heaven

The emperor degrading his son to a slave started the heresy. If he wasnt a donkey-cave then his son would never have searched for the old gods, erb would of stayed loyal and they would of loved happly ever after. But the emperor suffered from what all men in power do a need to exurt their power over others for a persoanl stroking of their......ego.

Rufiodies wrote:
Read the background. It says paternovas make all navigators more powerful and this effect is increased for those of the same house. So if Horus made sure to have the paternovas house as navigators for his forces they would be more powerful. Also the paternova is super powerful, im sure he could get messages in and out of terra. There are plenty of traitors on terra during the heresy. The one Garro novel mentions the vindicare sniper from that assassin kill team novel finding his way to terra and actively hunting that one saint from flight of the eisenstein.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if mars can rebel along with half of almost every other imperial institution, its safe to say that the navis nobilite would have split loyalty as well. Especially considering they knew that they were going to be culled following the successful completion of the webway project. This isnt just my opinion either. Its flat out stated that they were aware in Path of Heaven

Mars did rebel, but the fabricator general had overwhelming forces at his disposal on Mars that could not immediatly be dislodged. The Navis Nobilite did not have this on Terra. Sure, loyalty was split, but my question is how far this split loyalty can go.
The Paternova power thing is old fluff, WD 140 as you say, Ive not seen it mentioned again. Even if its still valid, it doesnt help them with warp storms, in which they all have problems. As I further read it this power ability is passive, he cant pick and choose who to empower, loyalist or traitor. Furthermore, Dorn could spy on the masters of the Assassin temples, the Paternova isnt some vindicare, hes one of the most important figures on Terra. I would assume they kept tabs on him. But this is where the problem lies, how long had the Paternova been aware of the Webway project? The HH was certainly being prepared even before the Emperor started it (he retired to it after Ulanor, the WB started after being sanctioned by him). Even if he became aware of it, when did he know of the HH, even Horus did not know of the webway as favoured son. So its highly unlikely the traitors approached the Paternova at the start of the HH, they would have no reason to assume he would join. Therefore I think the Paternova could only really team up with Horus after the HH starts, severly limiting his ability to provide Horus with navigators from Terra. Going even further, its also likely that navigators of his house were stationed with loyalist forces, as they live quite long and the GC had a need for many. Yet this did not give loyalists the ability to operate in warp storms. So either all of the 'super' navigators would have to be placed with traitor forces (Betrayer shows the WB still using sorcery because of the storms) or the Paternova did not have much influence on the war. It just depends on so many things that it seems very unlikely to me.

OgreChubbs wrote:
The emperor degrading his son to a slave started the heresy. If he wasnt a donkey-cave then his son would never have searched for the old gods, erb would of stayed loyal and they would of loved happly ever after. But the emperor suffered from what all men in power do a need to exurt their power over others for a persoanl stroking of their......ego.

I'd call it bad writing myself.

Navigators meddling in human affairs for their own benefit ? been there Dune that...

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
Navigators meddling in human affairs for their own benefit ? been there Dune that...

I see what you did there.....