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Decrepit Dakkanaut






The discourse surrounding proper law enforcement in African-American communities was rekindled Thursday morning as news spread of an officer-involved shooting in East Baltimore — on the anniversary of Freddie Gray’s funeral.

A city police officer shot a teen who was carrying a fake handgun Wednesday afternoon following a brief foot chase near Aisquith Street and East Baltimore Street, authorities said. The teen’s injuries aren’t considered life-threatening.

Baltimore Police Commissioner Kevin Davis said two plainclothes detectives assigned to the department’s intelligence section had been driving down the street in an unmarked police car when they spotted the young person with what looked like a Beretta 92FS semi-automatic pistol and identified themselves as police officers.

“It’s a replica semi-automatic pistol, and I looked at it myself today. I stood right over top of it. I put my own eyes on it. It’s an absolute identical replica semi-automatic pistol,” Davis said during a news conference later that day. “Those police officers had no way of knowing that it was not, in fact, an actual firearm. It looks like a firearm.”

The teenager took off running, leading to a 150-plus yard chase that ended with one of the officers discharging his weapon, he said. The boy was taken to an area hospital for injuries to a “lower extremity,” according to police.

Volanda Young, the boy’s mother, identified her son to the Baltimore Sun as Dedric Colvin, a 14-year-old in the eighth grade, and said he left their home with a BB gun. Police said he is 13.

“He gets good grades. My son is a good kid,” Young told the local newspaper. “I know he was scared. They shot at him while he was fleeing.”

A video recorded on-site shortly after the shooting, obtained by The Sun, shows Maj. Deron Garrity telling the injured teen’s older brother, Alvin Colvin, that the detectives thought the gun was real.

“I’m looking at you man-to-man, nobody wants to do that [shoot an unarmed person]. OK? Your little brother had a gun,” he said. “I’m telling you right now that gun looked 100 percent real, a thousand percent real. That’s what I’m trying to tell you.”

Garrity asked how he could possibly tell his officers to “make sure he shoots you first.”

“But if he’s not pointing it at the police, why do they have the right to shoot?” Alvin Colvin asked.

Investigators from the department’s Special Investigation Response Team were called to the scene to look into the circumstances surrounding the incident. The Baltimore Police Department swiftly shared a picture of the replica handgun on its Facebook page.


At this point, Davis said, he has no reason to think that the officers acted inappropriately in any way.

The shooting occurred one year after the highly publicized funeral for Gray, a 25-year-old man who died of a spinal cord injury while in police custody in Baltimore, and subsequent riots, which ultimately led to a state of emergency and the National Guard being called into the city.

Davis said he cannot wrap his head around why the teen would leave his home with a replica pistol in his hand, and said that no Baltimore officer wants to shoot a 13-year-old.

“It’s a 13-year-old young man. That’s not lost on me whatsoever,” Davis said. “Why this young man chose to leave his home with a replica semi-automatic pistol in his hand, I don’t know. Why this young man chose to flee on foot when he was approached by two Baltimore police officers, I don’t know. Why the young man chose not to drop the gun and comply with the officers demands to stop, I don’t know that either.”

This is certainly not the first time an officer has mistaken a BB gun or replica pistol for an actual firearm. The shooting of Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old who was playing with an airsoft replica in Cleveland, was one of the tragedies that gave rise to the Black Lives Matter movement.

Earlier this month on April 8 in Arlington, Texas, a 15-year-old approached an officer in his patrol car and pulled out a BB gun, police said. The cop said he feared for his life and struck the teen’s arm so the “gun” would fall to the ground.

“The gun was a BB gun,” Arlington Police Chief Will Johnson said in a news release. “However, you can see it looks real. Officers have to make split second decisions. Thankfully no one was hurt.”





Here we go again people. Baltimore 2016 Part 2

Figure by now. Don't run with a weapon!!!!

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why do the cops feel threatened by people running away?

quick he's running, shoot him in the back because he's threatening us?


 
   
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Legged him

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Aren't replica guns supposed to have an orange nozel?
   
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USA

I think that's just air soft guns (in the US, I know other countries have straight "all toy guns have orange nozzles"). And of course, nothing stops someone from removing the nozzle or painting it a different color.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/04/28 19:37:47


   
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 LordofHats wrote:
I think that's just air soft guns (in the US, I know other countries have straight "all toy guns have orange nozzles"). And of course, nothing stops someone from removing the nozzle or painting it a different color.


Okay, yeah. I just looked it up and it should have had an orange nozel.

If you're going to paint over it to make it look real, well, get ready for some trouble.
   
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 Jihadin wrote:


Figure by now. Don't run with a weapon!!!!


I'll go you one better, and I say this from personal experience. Just get the feth out of Baltimore, and never go back.
   
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Why did he have a replica? That's a pretty damn real looking replica

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 jreilly89 wrote:
Why did he have a replica? That's a pretty damn real looking replica


The BB Gun looks exactly like the real deal except for the orange nozzle. I looked it up and it really does look exactly the same.
   
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sirlynchmob wrote:
why do the cops feel threatened by people running away?

quick he's running, shoot him in the back because he's threatening us?



Something something imminent danger to self or others. if it turned out to be a real gun and some one else dies because they didnt stop em. then it would be on de cops.

honestly surprised why parents would get them an airsoft gun like that. IIRC even airsofts you need to be 18 or something no?


 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
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 Desubot wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
why do the cops feel threatened by people running away?

quick he's running, shoot him in the back because he's threatening us?



Something something imminent danger to self or others. if it turned out to be a real gun and some one else dies because they didnt stop em. then it would be on de cops.

honestly surprised why parents would get them an airsoft gun like that. IIRC even airsofts you need to be 18 or something no?


Both my boyz are really into Nerf Guns... since they both like to paint them... I forbade them to paint 'em black/gray/silver.

Because, gak ain't worth that.

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Inside Yvraine

Don't have the time to read the article atm so I don't know the context of what happened, but if those pictures of the replica are what the victim was really carrying then I think this is one of the occasions where the officers should be in the clear. That's a damn real looking gun replica.
   
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Can't really fault the cops on this one. Shoot a fething kid.... that's gotta suck.

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Denver, Colorado

sirlynchmob wrote:
why do the cops feel threatened by people running away?

quick he's running, shoot him in the back because he's threatening us?



To play devil's advocate,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleeing_felon_rule

A reasonable application would be if, say, a criminal shoots someone and flees from the police with the gun. Even though he does not pose an imminent threat to police, should the police officer just let him get away, knowing this would potentially allow him to escape justice and kill again?

Granted, this isn't a good application of that rule at all, seeing as how the gun was a replica, and no crime was committed. Yet cops have to make these judgment calls quickly, and sometimes without all the facts.

I don't really intend to condone shooting a 13 year old with a fake gun, but I just want to point out that, yes, cops can shoot at fleeing suspects, under the right circumstances.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/28 20:07:06


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On moon miranda.

 Desubot wrote:
sirlynchmob wrote:
why do the cops feel threatened by people running away?

quick he's running, shoot him in the back because he's threatening us?



Something something imminent danger to self or others. if it turned out to be a real gun and some one else dies because they didnt stop em. then it would be on de cops.

honestly surprised why parents would get them an airsoft gun like that. IIRC even airsofts you need to be 18 or something no?

At a federal level, there are no such restrictions on airsoft guns. They are not firearms, and are not covered under firearms laws the way many other countries treat them. Some states or cities may have additional regulations, for instance IIRC in CA you have to be at least 18 to *buy* an airsoft gun, but can still possess one under 18 (such as a birthday present).


As for the main topic, while I dont want to get too much into the specifics of thr shoot itself, the "well why did he run?" line getting trotted out again makes one think that these agencies either arent learning or dont care to learn from past mistakes, and it is concerning that deadly force is resorted to against young people who are actively fleeing and presenting no clear and present danger aside from *potentially* being armed (which isn't necessarily a crime).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/28 20:11:14


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AH makes sense since i am in Californialand.

i would figure fleeing while brandishing a weapon (without being actually able to tell if its fake or not) would be a clear and present danger. as well brandishing a weapon is a crime. (right?)

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
 Scott-S6 wrote:
And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.

Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!

 
   
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Bristol

 Jihadin wrote:


Figure by now. Don't run with a weapon!!!!


Because not running saved Tamir Rice [/sarcasm]

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Shadeglass Maze

No need to bash Baltimore in the title, honestly. This could be happen anywhere. Obviously having a gun that looks that real and not obeying the police is extremely dangerous... very glad to hear the injury isn't life threatening, though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/28 20:22:05


 
   
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 RiTides wrote:
No need to bash Baltimore in the title, honestly. This could be happen anywhere. Obviously having a gun that looks that real and not obeying the police is extremely dangerous... very glad to hear the injury isn't life threatening, though.



I think the title is referencing the Baltimore riots that were kicked off by a somewhat similar event.

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Earth

Enough dead kids, parents, innocents, etc. for yanks to finally admit gun control doesn't work, and its the guns that need to go?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
guns go, police don't need to always carry guns, seems pretty obvious to me

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/28 20:32:05


 
   
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 Formosa wrote:
Enough dead kids, parents, innocents, etc. for yanks to finally admit gun control doesn't work, and its the guns that need to go?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
guns go, police don't need to always carry guns, seems pretty obvious to me


I've been in enough gun threads in my time to know that this is an absolute non-starter.

We were once so close to heaven, St. Peter came out and gave us medals; declaring us "The nicest of the damned".

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 Desubot wrote:
AH makes sense since i am in Californialand.

i would figure fleeing while brandishing a weapon (without being actually able to tell if its fake or not) would be a clear and present danger. as well brandishing a weapon is a crime. (right?)
It can be, I'm not familiar with Maryland's laws on that issue however.


 Formosa wrote:
Enough dead kids, parents, innocents, etc. for yanks to finally admit gun control doesn't work, and its the guns that need to go?
Unless we're talking about banning toy guns too...it's hard to see where gun control would have made any difference here.

That said, the guns will go when the US public supports a repeal of the 2nd amendment of the Bill of Rights and someone comes up with a realistic way to collect 350-400 million small arms from about every third household in the country. So...not soon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
guns go, police don't need to always carry guns, seems pretty obvious to me
Very few police agencies dont carry guns. The UK is an exception, and there are nations where gun control is far stricter than even the UK and the police remain armed. Most in fact. Removing the firearms from the civilian realm is no guarantee that the police would stop carrying firearms as well.

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Yeah. Now if we had gun laws like the UK, then there would be no need for cops to have them, but with our mass proliferation of guns, it's just not feasible.

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Kid was a total idiot for running away. I would actually argue most people who run away from the cops in these situations are idiots. They're fething law enforcement, just cooperate. Especially if you're packing an insanely convincing replica firearm.
   
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 creeping-deth87 wrote:
Kid was a total idiot for running away. I would actually argue most people who run away from the cops in these situations are idiots. They're fething law enforcement, just cooperate. Especially if you're packing an insanely convincing replica firearm.
he's a 13 year old kid...of course he's an idiot, what 13 year old isnt? Whats more, he's a 13 year old in a community with extremely poor relations with law enforcement. Pretty standard reaction given the circumstances.

Simply running from the police isn't a free pass for the police to open fire or an admission of guilt.

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 Vaktathi wrote:


Simply running from the police isn't a free pass for the police to open fire or an admission of guilt.


Except if you're waving what looks like a real gun around, that is.
   
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Mdlbuildr wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:


Simply running from the police isn't a free pass for the police to open fire or an admission of guilt.


Except if you're waving what looks like a real gun around, that is.
Only if he was actively carrying it as if it were a real gun (e.g. trying to rob someone). Otherwise, no, there's no law against carrying a replica toy gun.

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St. Louis

Even then, it's not a reason to shoot someone. Baltimore has open carry.
   
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 Vaktathi wrote:


Only if he was actively carrying it as if it were a real gun (e.g. trying to rob someone). Otherwise, no, there's no law against carrying a replica toy gun.


Can't tell if you're being argumentative or just having some fun.





Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Laughing Man wrote:
Even then, it's not a reason to shoot someone. Baltimore has open carry.


It's legal for a 13 year old to open carry on the streets?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/04/28 21:12:39


 
   
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Mdlbuildr wrote:
 Vaktathi wrote:


Only if he was actively carrying it as if it were a real gun (e.g. trying to rob someone). Otherwise, no, there's no law against carrying a replica toy gun.


Can't tell if you're being argumentative or just having some fun.
Im not trying to have fun with this. The kid committed no crime carrying a toy gun, and running from the police is not an admission if guilt, and the only reason for officers to open fire is if they believe the suspect to be actively dangerous and seeking to harm others. Just "we think he has a gun" is mighty thin ice.

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