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 Ghaz wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

DarknessEternal wrote:Separate detachments are allies. You can be allied with your own faction, as battle brothers, it's on the chart.

If it is from the same Faction, you do not address the Matrix. "The Allies Matrix below shows the levels of alliance between units that have different Factions in the same army."

And yet the Allies Matrix shows the same Faction as being Battle Brothers instead of leaving the space blank as they did last edition

Supplements, man, Supplements.

Supplements don't change Factions though.

But a different book and some are allowed to be considered Allies.

There was a ruling in the Tau FAQ today that might be relevant to this conversation:

Q: The rules for Tau homing beacons don't say that the model has to be on the table for one turn before it takes effect. Does this mean the benefits can be used in the same turn it arrives from Reserves?

A: Yes, if the model bearing the homing become moves onto the battlefield from reserves before the unit you intend to benefit from it: Note that the model must disembark from any Transport it might be on if you want to use the homing beacon.

Not hugely - having to be on the table to use "aura" abilities that dont specifically state they work while embarked is in the main FAQ, and TAU Homing Beacons DONT have the same stipulation as SM ones.

Slightly on this topic, I used the Shadowstrike kill team yesterday, and completely forgot about the ability with the scouts! And they dropped down within 9 inches of two scout squads, And they scattered, And they mishapped!

(The scouts had been on since turn one however, and the vets didn't drop till turn two)

Luckily for me, they eventually came down turn three and munched through some stuff.

Or just use Scout Bikers with locator beacons 2+ Jinx first turn and have a podding command squad with banner for +1 attack to all units within 12" with ignore cover relentless gravguns. Have the 2 mandatory scout squads for the STK be snipers in your deployment zone and stay within a 9" perimeter for no scatter incase of seize or counter to a alpha strike.

The question is do drop pods come in before the deep striking Vanguard or simultaneously, or is it the controlling players choice?

Has nothing to do with the Vanguard charging as they can straight out of deepstrike and codex always over rules BRB.

Valentine009 wrote:
There was a ruling in the Tau FAQ today that might be relevant to this conversation:

Q: The rules for Tau homing beacons don't say that the model has to be on the table for one turn before it takes effect. Does this mean the benefits can be used in the same turn it arrives from Reserves?

A: Yes, if the model bearing the homing become moves onto the battlefield from reserves before the unit you intend to benefit from it: Note that the model must disembark from any Transport it might be on if you want to use the homing beacon.

Also similar answer with Blood angels FAQ regarding their specific formation.

I'm late to the party but I don't see how the OP works. Aren't the drop pods are using rules from another formation? Plus can't only one come in 1st turn?

Plus the scouts are using a special rule from the formation - which scouts could only utilize if they infiltrated or had arrived a turn earlier....at least that's how I am reading the rules. Any clarification wold be great, thanks!

 Spacewolverine wrote:
The question is do drop pods come in before the deep striking Vanguard or simultaneously, or is it the controlling players choice?

This falls under Sequencing, so the Player whose turn it is (so usually Controlling Player).

 Sautek Supreme wrote:
I'm late to the party but I don't see how the OP works. Aren't the drop pods are using rules from another formation? Plus can't only one come in 1st turn?

Plus the scouts are using a special rule from the formation - which scouts could only utilize if they infiltrated or had arrived a turn earlier....at least that's how I am reading the rules. Any clarification wold be great, thanks!

He had 3 pods total, so 2 could come in turn 1. So he deep struck the scouts in the pods then the Vanguard deep struck within 9".

 Sautek Supreme wrote:
I'm late to the party but I don't see how the OP works. Aren't the drop pods are using rules from another formation? Plus can't only one come in 1st turn?

Plus the scouts are using a special rule from the formation - which scouts could only utilize if they infiltrated or had arrived a turn earlier....at least that's how I am reading the rules. Any clarification wold be great, thanks!

The scouts didn't need to be there a turn earlier. The only real problem is whether or not you can put Scouts from one formation into a different detachment's Drop Pod. I'm in the "you can't" camp, but it's still up for debate.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The scouts didn't need to be there a turn earlier.

Actually, they do. Any rules and abilities which are used at the start of the turn cannot be used when Arriving From Reserves.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The only real problem is whether or not you can put Scouts from one formation into a different detachment's Drop Pod. I'm in the "you can't" camp, but it's still up for debate.

They can if they are the same Faction and the Drop Pod is not Dedicated. Allies rules only concern themselves with Factions, not Detachments. Different Chapter Tactics do not matter in this case, either, since if they have different Chapter Tactics, they are in the same Faction (currently) and they are not joined to each other.

 Charistoph wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The scouts didn't need to be there a turn earlier.

Actually, they do. Any rules and abilities which are used at the start of the turn cannot be used when Arriving From Reserves.
.

The thing is GW FAQ does allow it unless the rule wording says "the unit must be in the table before" thus the FAQ ruling with units arriving turn 1 ( 1st scouts or units with locator beacons) and then allowing further units arriving the same turn to not scatter or be able to charge if their formation rules grant that.

Lord Perversor wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The scouts didn't need to be there a turn earlier.

Actually, they do. Any rules and abilities which are used at the start of the turn cannot be used when Arriving From Reserves.
.

The thing is GW FAQ does allow it unless the rule wording says "the unit must be in the table before" thus the FAQ ruling with units arriving turn 1 ( 1st scouts or units with locator beacons) and then allowing further units arriving the same turn to not scatter or be able to charge if their formation rules grant that.

The thing is that the rulebook does not allow it unless the rule is worded to allow it to work when Arriving From Reserves. It was implemented in 6th Edition, and did not change for 7th Edition.

 Charistoph wrote:

Lord Perversor wrote:

 Charistoph wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:
The scouts didn't need to be there a turn earlier.

Actually, they do. Any rules and abilities which are used at the start of the turn cannot be used when Arriving From Reserves.
.

The thing is GW FAQ does allow it unless the rule wording says "the unit must be in the table before" thus the FAQ ruling with units arriving turn 1 ( 1st scouts or units with locator beacons) and then allowing further units arriving the same turn to not scatter or be able to charge if their formation rules grant that.

The thing is that the rulebook does not allow it unless the rule is worded to allow it to work when Arriving From Reserves. It was implemented in 6th Edition, and did not change for 7th Edition.

Oh i see

so
Tau FAQ and this
Blood Angel FAQ paired with this Spearhead formation
wich is totally allowed according to rules is fine

Now the wording rule we are discussing wich is here shadowstrike kill team
Does not?

Sory but the TAU and Blood Angels FAQ allow to use such abilities as long THERE is no further requirement in the rule. Yet you argue the Shadowstrike one (wich is worded exactly the same way) is not?

Lord Perversor wrote:
Oh i see

so
Tau FAQ and this
Blood Angel FAQ paired with this Spearhead formation
wich is totally allowed according to rules is fine

Now the wording rule we are discussing wich is here shadowstrike kill team
Does not?

Sory but the TAU and Blood Angels FAQ allow to use such abilities as long THERE is no further requirement in the rule. Yet you argue the Shadowstrike one (wich is worded exactly the same way) is not?

1. It's a Draft, not live.
2. Plenty of the Draft FAQ Answers either ignore or directly counter the written word of the book. Battle Brothers and Transports in Deployment, for example?

OP; how did your buddy get the scouts in drop pods to begin with?

Also did your budy have 2x with a possible -1 drop pods(if there were an odd number of pods to begin with) in order for those scouts units to all come in first turn?

the actual benefits of the formation should be tricky to pull off normally; adding in the scenario you describe should come down to impossible without several CADs getting involved.

 Charistoph wrote:

Lord Perversor wrote:
Oh i see

so
Tau FAQ and this
Blood Angel FAQ paired with this Spearhead formation
wich is totally allowed according to rules is fine

Now the wording rule we are discussing wich is here shadowstrike kill team
Does not?

Sory but the TAU and Blood Angels FAQ allow to use such abilities as long THERE is no further requirement in the rule. Yet you argue the Shadowstrike one (wich is worded exactly the same way) is not?

1. It's a Draft, not live.
2. Plenty of the Draft FAQ Answers either ignore or directly counter the written word of the book. Battle Brothers and Transports in Deployment, for example?

Check Swarmlord special rule, check also Chapter Tactics rules, both state at the beginning of turn, and thus would work and be restricted much like you claim (any unit coming of reserves cannot benefit for those rules in the turn they arrive) but the one of Shadowstrike does not, it's just your personal interpretation linking it to the rule you mention.

I think while it is a draft they very clearly said that the answers are not likely to change, only that the wording will be changed to clear up any ambiguities.

 Leth wrote:
I think while it is a draft they very clearly said that the answers are not likely to change, only that the wording will be changed to clear up any ambiguities.

When they have waited a while to do FAQs and release them after a while, it is not unheard of for them to reverse the answer in a following FAQ when feedback questions where they were headed or pointed out that it ran counter to what the book said (and they didn't choose to errata the book). It is not terribly common, but it is not impossible, either.