Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

While looking for stuff to use for weathering that doesn't contain harsh solvents I came across water mixable oils.

Has anyone used them and know what they're like? Could I use them in a similar way to regular oil paints, just minus the need for white spirit to thin it, or am I just wasting my time?

I guess no one has used them? I was near an art shop today and picked up a couple to test, unfortunately they had a terrible range, but it should be enough for me to figure out if they're good or not.

Please let us know

would like to know as well

So far I'm liking it, though thinning it with lots of water produces something that isn't as smooth as you would normally associate with oil paints, it's more gritty. Reading online apparently you're supposed to thin with mediums rather than water.

But so far, just thinning with water, it's not too bad. Even though it's not as smooth as an oil thinned with white spirit, it doesn't really matter because I'm specifically using it for weathering, panel lining, recess washes, etc.

I've tried it for recess washing and panel lining, thinning it down with water, apply it to the recesses or panel lines, clean off the brush with water and just run it along the edge of the paint to blend the recess in (or in the case of panel lines, to clean up any slopiness and blend the recess colour slightly in to the rest of the panel).

I'm going to need to see if I can get some medium for thinning and if that improves things. But at this stage it might be replacing traditional oil in a lot of situations for me because it's achieving similar results without the harsher solvents.

One thing I hoped it would do but it's not, I was hoping I could get away with not using a gloss varnish prior to weathering, but even just thinning it with water it's soaking in to the non-glossy paints too much, so just like regular oils it still needs a glossy base to go over.

My daughter uses them instead of my heavy body acrylics for her art GCSE work (she's actually in the second day of the exam todya!!)

They are similar in consistency to heavy body acrylic paint and will need a lot of thinning for use on war game figures or you will get a grainy, smeary effect. They wash with water and dry much quicker than real oil paints.

IDK if you can successfully thin them enough with water to make them usable on miniatures. There are some mediums for use with them, which I assume would work like acrylic media.

Apparently they genuinely do contain an oil base, while still being water washable. How this is achieved chemically is something I don't know.

I saw a test on flory models that claimed that flow improver works well with water based oils.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
My daughter uses them instead of my heavy body acrylics for her art GCSE work (she's actually in the second day of the exam todya!!)

They are similar in consistency to heavy body acrylic paint and will need a lot of thinning for use on war game figures or you will get a grainy, smeary effect. They wash with water and dry much quicker than real oil paints.

IDK if you can successfully thin them enough with water to make them usable on miniatures. There are some mediums for use with them, which I assume would work like acrylic media.

Apparently they genuinely do contain an oil base, while still being water washable. How this is achieved chemically is something I don't know.

My understanding is they are genuinely oils, but with an additive that binds to the chains of the oil molecules and in turn binds to water molecules, allowing the oils to combine with water. I saw in the art shop they had special linseed oil specifically for water mixable oils, so I don't think the mediums for these paints behave like acrylic mediums.

As you say, thinning it with water does turn it a bit grainy, though I'm just using tap water. I might try and get some medium and see how that works, maybe a mix of medium + water is the way to go.

It seems like they are quite a new invention.

Some artists seem to really like them, saying they behave exactly like oils except can be cleaned up with water. I don't know what the big deal is about being able to clean up with water because I always clean up regular oils with soap and water anyway I was mainly hoping I could get the benefits of oils without having to thin with white spirit, which both stinks and attacks a lot of things I'm trying to weather over.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jorny wrote:
I saw a test on flory models that claimed that flow improver works well with water based oils.

Interesting, did they say what flow improver? Just regular acrylic variety?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Interesting, did they say what flow improver? Just regular acrylic variety?

Ordinary Winsor and Newton acrylic flow improver. I don't remember at what dilution though. If I remember correctly it made it less grainy and made it easier to use as a wash.

I have a bunch of cheap water mixable oils, haven't tried them yet though.

I didn't have any W&N flow improver, but I gave Vallejo Airbrush Flow Improver a try, it seems to work well!

I'll have to have a play, it miiiiiiiight have made the paint go slightly cloudy, but it's hard to tell because my test model is a glossy dark green Zero, so anything satin or matte naturally looks a bit cloudy.

But yeah, mixing a small dab of the water mixable oil paint + 4-5 drops of flow improver + 4-5 drops of water makes for a pretty smooth wash which you can apply to the recesses and then just come back with a damp clean brush and blend it in, works really well.

I'm not going to say it works better than regular oils, but so far I'm liking the effect and liking the fact I don't have to use strong solvents.

I use them for weathering. I don't think they'd work very well at all for painting colors, but for weathering washes they work as expected. They're definitely "real" oil paints and will take hours/days to dry, and can be thinned and blended just like any other oil paints. I don't think they'd be worth using over regular oil paints if you have no problem with cleanup/paint thinner/etc, but if you're in a situation where you can't make a big mess with your painting stuff they're very useful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
But yeah, mixing a small dab of the water mixable oil paint + 4-5 drops of flow improver + 4-5 drops of water makes for a pretty smooth wash which you can apply to the recesses and then just come back with a damp clean brush and blend it in, works really well.

Are you using flow improver straight from the bottle when you say 4-5 drops?

 Peregrine wrote:
I don't think they'd be worth using over regular oil paints if you have no problem with cleanup/paint thinner/etc, but if you're in a situation where you can't make a big mess with your painting stuff they're very useful.

Yeah, part of the reason I wanted to try them was not having to breathe harsh solvents, it was also partly because I like to use some "rough" techniques when I'm working with oils and weathering where I'm currently limited because the solvents attack the underlying paint more than I'd like.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
But yeah, mixing a small dab of the water mixable oil paint + 4-5 drops of flow improver + 4-5 drops of water makes for a pretty smooth wash which you can apply to the recesses and then just come back with a damp clean brush and blend it in, works really well.

Are you using flow improver straight from the bottle when you say 4-5 drops?

Yep. I basically mixed flow improver and water in to the oil in equal measure until it was a wash-like consistency. It may not need that much flow improver, it may get better if you use more, I have no idea, it's just 1:1 flow improver to water was the first thing I tried

wow this is really exciting! (really!) because I've been wanting to give oils a go for this very thing but the whole cleanup and use of solvent put me off. I've not used oils in years because of that generally. Anyway, will have to see where there might be some available here!

Thanks for the experimentation AllSeeingSkink