Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

OK, So I've been looking over the GW web site thinking about starting up with Fantasy Battles. This is something I've been kicking arund off and on for a while now, so I was generally familiar with the armies - High Elves, Empire, Dwarves, Orks & Goblins, Chaos.

After looking over the the GW web site and reading the free intro PDF, I have NO IDEA what's going on.

What are the armies?

What are the composition rules?

Can I field an army that's nothing but six Chaos Lords riding dragons? 'Cause it sort of looks to my like I CAN.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And what happened to all the cavalry? A Bret/Empire/High Elf all cavalry army was exactly what I wanted to build.

Why are Chaos Knights on oval bases?

Not sure if you are trolling because everything you just posted looks like it came out of a warseer complaint thread about why AOS sucks pretty much verbatim.

Haha, you certainly picked an interesting time to get into fantasy.

Alright first off, the game is a mass skirmish game that doesn't rely on bases (so square, round or oval are fine). The armies of been put into four factions: Order(human, elves ,lizardmen, dwarves), Destruction(orcs, goblins, ogres), Chaos (chaos, Skaven, beastmen), Death(vampire counts, Tomb kings).

Sidenote: the Tomb kings and Bretonnian model ranges have been discontinued.(Though the Tomb kings have been talked about in the new lore...)

Sadly, alot of cavalry have been removed from the Order forces with the remaining being imperial pistoliers and outriders, high elf dragon princes and dark elf cavalry. We'll have to wait and see if any future Cavaliers are horse mounted or will ride more exotic beasts.

Composition of armies is whatever you want. The models have no points or restrictions so you are free to create any army you want. So yes, you could make a chaos dragon force. Though you and your opponent should talk it out if that's acceptable or if you want to make a unique battle out of it. ( like say only starting with two dragons and having to reach objectives to summon the rest while his army defends)

That said, others prefer points to better balance a game so some use a total wounds count for their forces while others use fan-made comps.
(The Azyr and SCGT comps are such ones)


However, GW did announce that come summer they will make three styles of play with one being a point system.

Here's an excellent resource for getting started.
http://twoplustough.com/age-of-sigmar/

An a link to the official Facebook.
https://m.facebook.com/GWWarhammerAgeofSigmar/

Unfortunately, this change has left alot of gamers wanted the old fantasy and rank-and-file system back.

If you're feeling the same then there's continuing 8th edition (one site, Eighth edition for life ((EEFL)), builds upon this), a large fan-community made 9th edition called "The 9th Age" and others moved to Kings of War which supports all of the warhammer armies.

Hope this cleared some things up and feel free to ask anymore questions!

Could be genuine, but the statement of wanting to build a multi-faction all-cav force says otherwise... oh, and the mention of Chaos Lords on dragons.

 auticus wrote:
Not sure if you are trolling because everything you just posted looks like it came out of a warseer complaint thread about why AOS sucks pretty much verbatim.

I was going to say the same thing, but I thought give him the benefit of the doubt. If I am reading his posts correctly, it looked like he stopped posting on Dakka just before Age of Sigmar came out and he really doesn't know about all the changes. So I don't think he is trolling.

I really can't explain very well what the armies are since I am not familiar with all the fluff. Now we have Grand Alliences. Death, Order, Destruction and Chaos. All the armies were put into one of those 4 factions. Slaaneesh has dispeared, the Rat dude (see not familiar with the names) is taking his place for now, Tomb Kings is not in production anymore, but still playable, same for Bretonians. Not sure if other armies will be squatted or not, but at least everything is still playable.

Almost all the stuff is free in able to play. Some battletombs have to be paid for either by buying the book or warscrolls on the Age of Sigmar app.

A new point system will be coming out in the summer. Not sure if that is a good thing or not, so time will tell on that part.

All I can suggest is go to the GW website and look under the Alliance tabs and go through them to see what army you liked and go on from there. Right now, you can mix anything with anything right now. So mix and match to your hearts content. That will change if you have to play "house rules". By that I mean some competitions will restrict this, or some people say you can only ally up within you own Alliance, which I find bunk.

Hopefully other people will come in here and explain it better than me.

There are hundreds of posts on here detailing AoS and its rules / the fall of fantasy / changes therein.
Have a search first and then come back with specifics?

 auticus wrote:
Not sure if you are trolling because everything you just posted looks like it came out of a warseer complaint thread about why AOS sucks pretty much verbatim.

Not trolling at all.

So far as I can tell, the new edition is Age of Sigmar and there are 4 army books - Order, Chaos, Death, and Destruction. Order has Empire, high Elves and Dwarves all in one book. Chaos has Chaos Warriors and Demons. Deach has, I assume, Death Counts and Tomb Kings. Destruction has Orks & Gobbos and Skaven. And instead of points you use gold. Am I right? And there are STILL something resembling composition runes, meaning I can't field six Bloosthirsters as my entire army.

That was my main fear, that if I got into Fantasy right now then all I'd ever see across the table was a grinning, pimple-faced teenager with seven Chaos Lords on Khorne Juggernauts. I mean, I know, Hero Hammer, but COME ON.

I actually kind of LIKE the idea of having a big block of Dwarf infantry supported by High Elf archers and Empire cavalry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RoperPG wrote:
Could be genuine, but the statement of wanting to build a multi-faction all-cav force says otherwise... oh, and the mention of Chaos Lords on dragons.

No, not multi-faction cavalry. Under the old rules Empire, High Elves, and Brets were the only armies that could legally field all cavalry armies. I wanted one of those, and was leaning toward Brets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Sadly, alot of cavalry have been removed from the Order forces

Well Grrrrr. Now I just want to take my money and go home.

No such thing as gold and no such thing as composition.

You really can take 20 HQ units vs your opponents 20 regular infantry.

But you won't make any friends that way.

Currently (until the General book comes out later), GW expects you to balance out your forces on your own.

That said there are various comps that other non-GW folks have come up with.

phydaux wrote:
That was my main fear, that if I got into Fantasy right now then all I'd ever see across the table was a grinning, pimple-faced teenager with seven Chaos Lords on Khorne Juggernauts. I mean, I know, Hero Hammer, but COME ON.

Oh come on, really? I think you have more to fear of this from adults than teenagers.

I actually kind of LIKE the idea of having a big block of Dwarf infantry supported by High Elf archers and Empire cavalry.

You can still do this. Nothing is stopping you from doing it. Thing is the rules are different. Never played Fantasy so not sure if you mean talking about the rules and getting bonuses for doing it, or just using the minis that way. D

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Sadly, alot of cavalry have been removed from the Order forces

Well Grrrrr. Now I just want to take my money and go home.

I could be wrong here, BUT they might be removed from the Order forces but you still have the warscrolls to use those units correct? So they still can be used. Don't see the issue here. Can someone please explain what I am not seeing here?

Are the Warscrolls the pdfs that cover the units in the old army books?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KiloFiX wrote:

Currently (until the General book comes out later), GW expects you to balance out your forces on your own.

Yeah, because that works SO WELL. /scarcasm

"We'll prevent people from exploiting poorly written rules by not publishing any rules. Can't exploit what we haven't written." Is that really GW's plan?

Sorry guys, but this is just dredging up all the reasons I got out of 40k years ago. The state of the rules is always in flux, constantly changing based on what will sell the models currently collecting the most dust in the GW warehouse, and the most powerful army is the one with the most special rules per square inch in its army book. So you either constantly buy the latest books and the latest models, or you stop expecting to ever win a game.





I just wanted to paint a bunch of horses, and MAYBE have an army that stood a decent chance of winning some games.

So no more block formations, EVERYONE is a skirmisher now, like 40k? Even cavalry? Even Spearmen? What happened to High Elves Martial Prowess? And Empire Detachments?

Everything you love has been destroyed. It's hard to accept sometimes. Try AOS if you want but personally I think it's garbage.

Dude. If you're really worried about hypothetical Bloodthirster armies just wait until the General's Handbook comes this summer. It will contain points to make pick up games, tournaments and general competetive play work better.

Or you could use one of the many comps that exist. (SCGT Comp is probably the most popular right now).

Or - just eyeball it. I am a strong advocate of points but I have played loads of pick up games against people I am playing for the first time, where we just both set up with the aim of a fair game.

You will not come across a Bloodthirster army by the way.

Lastly, you can still have an all Bret cavalry army. The rules are still supported for them even if the models aren't sold. If you are a millionaire you can pay the eBay prices for Brets. If you're not playing in a GW you could consider medieval French miniatures.

Otherwise, just like I regret not buying space hulk when it was rereleased. Or like I regret not getting 'Escher Gang Leader with Power Sword' before specialist games went, you are just going to have to regret not getting the army before GW dropped it.

phydaux wrote:


Yeah, because that works SO WELL. /scarcasm

"We'll prevent people from exploiting poorly written rules by not publishing any rules. Can't exploit what we haven't written." Is that really GW's plan?

You should know that there are people that can make it work well, but since you've already made up you mind I won't bother you more on this matter. Playing without points is doable in virtually any game (40k including) - it just requires a little cooperation.

phydaux wrote:

 auticus wrote:
Not sure if you are trolling because everything you just posted looks like it came out of a warseer complaint thread about why AOS sucks pretty much verbatim.

Not trolling at all.

So far as I can tell, the new edition is Age of Sigmar and there are 4 army books - Order, Chaos, Death, and Destruction. Order has Empire, high Elves and Dwarves all in one book. Chaos has Chaos Warriors and Demons. Deach has, I assume, Death Counts and Tomb Kings. Destruction has Orks & Gobbos and Skaven. And instead of points you use gold. Am I right? And there are STILL something resembling composition runes, meaning I can't field six Bloosthirsters as my entire army.

That was my main fear, that if I got into Fantasy right now then all I'd ever see across the table was a grinning, pimple-faced teenager with seven Chaos Lords on Khorne Juggernauts. I mean, I know, Hero Hammer, but COME ON.

I actually kind of LIKE the idea of having a big block of Dwarf infantry supported by High Elf archers and Empire cavalry.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

RoperPG wrote:
Could be genuine, but the statement of wanting to build a multi-faction all-cav force says otherwise... oh, and the mention of Chaos Lords on dragons.

No, not multi-faction cavalry. Under the old rules Empire, High Elves, and Brets were the only armies that could legally field all cavalry armies. I wanted one of those, and was leaning toward Brets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Baron Klatz wrote:
Sadly, alot of cavalry have been removed from the Order forces

Well Grrrrr. Now I just want to take my money and go home.

Come on, the contents of the Grand Alliance books is right in the description. At least read them.

AoS has been out for a year now, there are thousand of posts on the topic and you feel the need to create a thread?

Furthermore, AoS gives you the freedom to do what you like! Want blocks of infantry? Play it like that way then! Enemies have to pile in to the nearest enemie model, so that would be your first line. Use other units then to flank them, just like before in WHFB.
Cavalry? Sure, go crazy, you're not bound to a single race or even a Grand Alliance. Chaos Knights with supplemental Wood Elves and a a Star Drake as a center piece? Do it! Let your imagination run wild!

@OP just use a player made comp pack now for simplicity and start playing right away. Whatever we get when that book comes out from GW can be assessed then, but no point in speculating it now to a point where you hold off actually playing the game. Edit: choices are Clash Comp 2.0 now up, SCGT, Azyr, SDK (recent updates), and more from regional events I don't even know about unless on that specific event page.

I bet you'll be amazed at how well they work. Plus, includes houserules that you are probably already using, namely measure from the base. If you need help finding something we're here to help.
Best!

All the rules are free, so no need to buy books. Rules for every model is on their respective store page or in the AoS app.

Points are coming this summer.

AoS is very fun.

Good luck with your army!

phydaux wrote:

I just wanted to paint a bunch of horses, and MAYBE have an army that stood a decent chance of winning some games.

This is what I don't understand. How can you even say that? I mean are you trolling us now? I know you haven't posted in a long time so I gave you the benefit of the doubt but as someone who never even played Fantasy, one of the reasons for not playing Fantasy was this. Depending on the army you played you had no chance of winning just like 40K. So I got out of 40K, was going into Fantasy but see it was the same if not worse, so didn't even start. So don't even say that for AoS. Now you are starting to troll even if you are not trying to.

So no more block formations, EVERYONE is a skirmisher now, like 40k? Even cavalry? Even Spearmen? What happened to High Elves Martial Prowess? And Empire Detachments?

You know, between two grown adults, this can still be done. I could never understand why people need their hand held to be told them how to play a game. Another reason I quit 40K and never got into Fantasy was because everyone where I lived quit playing 40K and I couldn't find new people to play with. So I can understand if you have a hard time finding people to play with. Maybe the only person you can find to play is that person you are talking about. If this is the case, become a collector like me, or don't bother starting.

We all would love to help you out. Stop being so negative or finding fault in everything. I quit coming to Dakka and other forums because all the forums especially for Fantasy because of the toxicity. It's almost gone now and becoming a nice small brother/sisterhood here for AoS. People will accept some negativity for a short term, but if all you will find is fault in something people will stop helping you out.

It's not cool anymore to rag on GW or AoS now. I say try it. It costs no money to try. Use what you have, download the free App with the free stats. Only formations (sorry forget the proper name) only cost money but are NOT NEEDED. So play, see how you like it, see what your new play style is. Hopefully you enjoy it.

Also as for tactics, a few people already mentioned there is quite a few tactics and strategy going on in AoS. Maybe they will come in and help you explain what they can/could be.

I still can't help but think this is an attempt at trolling because most of your questions are easily answered by spending a few moments reading the warscrolls and four pages of rules and the things that you are complaining about still seem copy/pasted from warseer where they rag on those exact subjects pretty much daily.

Maybe I'm just cynical. Or maybe things like warseer ruined me to forums.

But yes if you took the 10 minutes to read the four page rules and then ventured out and found your warscrolls you know that there are no block formations and you know that detachments are gone etc.

You'd also know that you can paint a bunch of horses and play them because you'd know that bretonnia warscrolls still exist and you can still field them and you'd know that you can still field the high elf cavalry because their war scrolls exist, and you know that currently there is nothing stopping you from fielding all cavalry if you want.

You may have legitimately missed the announcement so I'll reiterate it but GW's facebook team already said that older warscrolls are perfectly legit to use for things like Bretonnia.

And I'd say your all cavalry bretonnian or high elf force stands just fine of a chance of winning.

There are of course going to be people that like to bend the game. Thats true in 40k. That was always true in every version of whfb.

OP sounds like the game you want to be playing is Kings of War, it is a lot closer to WHFB than AoS ever will be in many ways. And it does all cav fairly well.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:
It's not cool anymore to rag on GW or AoS now.

Hey, that'll always be cool

Just wanted to say real quick that AoS has free rules and every unit is viable for play rather than how 8th or 40k had only certain units that worked so you saw nothing but cookie-cutter lists.

Cavalry is devastating in AoS, the Bretonnians even have a formation for just using a cavalry army. (A all peasant force as well but who cares about them? )

As for forming up your troops, you can skirmish, rank up, use line formation, wedges, circles and even conga lines! As long as your troops are within 3" of eachother in their unit you can form them up however you want and take advantage of their weapon ranges and special abilities. (You can make your landsknecht empire expies actually form up like landsknechts!)

However, as Jonolikespie said, KoW might be another alternative for you if AoS doesn't agree with you.

phydaux wrote:

I just wanted to paint a bunch of horses, and MAYBE have an army that stood a decent chance of winning some games.

This is exactly what AoS is about.

Go look up 9th age or kings of war, AoS is not what your looking for.

hobojebus wrote:
Go look up 9th age or kings of war, AoS is not what your looking for.

Wow that sounds cold. Then again, the replies the OP is giving deserves it I guess. Talk like that, receive answers like that.

I just have the feeling that for the OP another game system is better for him using the minis he has. Again, free rules, free war scrolls and free App. Read them, try them then make decision. Nothing to loose now, everything to gain.

He wants something AoS does not offer, bretonia is gone the armies discontinued that's a sad fact but a fact none the less.

 jonolikespie wrote:
OP sounds like the game you want to be playing is Kings of War, it is a lot closer to WHFB than AoS ever will be in many ways. And it does all cav fairly well.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Davor wrote:
It's not cool anymore to rag on GW or AoS now.

Hey, that'll always be cool

I hit up my FLAGS tonight. One guy said most of the players have moved to Kings of War. I just downloaded the army file for Army Builder. I was thinking that if I got my hands of the old Island of Blood box set then I'd have a High Elf army and the 8th ed rules and could play with the guys who are sticking with 8th ed, I could get the Kings of War rules and play the same models with the Kings of War rules, and occasionally play Age of Sigmar with the same models.

The only problem with this plan seems to be that all the new GW models are coming with round bases.

Tonight I realized that this all reminds me of when 3rd ed of 40k came out. A lot of major changes all at once, jammed down our throats, without a lot of support or even, it seemed, playtesting on the part of GW. So I decided that currently Warhammer is in a giant open beta test phase. They're changing to a skirmish game whether we like it or not ,and right now we're testing the armies for balance and comp. The general book will hit with a few trial and error composition systems, and ACTUAL 9th edition will hit the streets in a year or two.

hobojebus wrote:
He wants something AoS does not offer, bretonia is gone the armies discontinued that's a sad fact but a fact none the less.

Doesn't stop a Bretonnia fanatic like me from enjoying the game.

E-bay, proxying and the time honored tradition of kitbashing.

@Phydaux,

KoW and AoS don't care about bases. In KoW the trays are all that matter, the models on top are just decoration. So you can have one model on a horde tray and play no problem.

Just make sure he's surrounded by dead bodies to show why he deserves that tray.

While yes it is a skirmish game, it doesn't have to be played that way. If you want 200 minis per side, go ahead and do it.

Want them in ranks, put them on trays like some people did for Lord of the Rings and do that.

Davor wrote:
While yes it is a skirmish game, it doesn't have to be played that way. If you want 200 minis per side, go ahead and do it.

Want them in ranks, put them on trays like some people did for Lord of the Rings and do that.

I don't think skirmish is referring to the number of models on the table in this context, but the fact that each model is representing itself on the battlefield and can act independently. WHFB used to be a true mass battle where a unit of 10 guys represented 100 soldiers and you moved them as if they were a single unit, but the more recent editions seemed to treat it as 1 model = 1 soldier, leaving it in an odd place where it was caught between mass battle and skirmish (moving a unit as a single block, but still treating each man in it as an individual).

AoS is a clear cut skirmish game no matter how many people you put on the board, since they are all representing 1 soldier on the field who can act independently. KoW goes the other way where a block of 20 men is representing a medium sized unit, not 20 men, and there are no individual statline, just a statline for a medium sized unit of X.

Thanks Jonolikespie, I didn't know that.

phydaux wrote:
So no more block formations, EVERYONE is a skirmisher now, like 40k? Even cavalry? Even Spearmen?

Hahaha yes. Hard to believe, still is for me after all this time.

Basically they replaced whfb with a super narrative game for hhhobyists. It is a bit ironic imo that whfb was easily a better narrative ruleset, that even KoW ruleset is more modeling friendly and that it's actualy AoS where they decided to try doing balance through tourney organizers but hey, at least there are no space marines.