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I think team Edward/Jacob mostly works right now because there's a sense of hope that this will actually be resolved. Beforehand we started getting more invested in our answers because it felt like there would be no official answer, so a firm resolution was the only way out. Had this same suggestion been made a month ago, team edward/jacob would go down the same rabbit-holes that we always go down.

Oldmike wrote:
If it's the same codex it's the same army not allies so you are ok

I'm leaning towards this intention even there is little to back this up. Codex and a supplement of that codex is the same army and not allies.
However chapter tactics in the space marine codex has their own rules which convolute this theory.

gungo wrote:

Oldmike wrote:
If it's the same codex it's the same army not allies so you are ok

I'm leaning towards this intention even there is little to back this up. Codex and a supplement of that codex is the same army and not allies.
However chapter tactics in the space marine codex has their own rules which convolute this theory.

Doesn't chapter tactics just give a special permission to take an Allied Detachment using the same book, as long as you use different tactics?

This doesn't change the fact that are still the same faction and therefore unaffected by the allies rules

 jokerkd wrote:

gungo wrote:

Oldmike wrote:
If it's the same codex it's the same army not allies so you are ok

I'm leaning towards this intention even there is little to back this up. Codex and a supplement of that codex is the same army and not allies.
However chapter tactics in the space marine codex has their own rules which convolute this theory.

Doesn't chapter tactics just give a special permission to take an Allied Detachment using the same book, as long as you use different tactics?

This doesn't change the fact that are still the same faction and therefore unaffected by the allies rules

The exact wording says they are treated as battle brothers.
However let's be honest the question asked was in reference to battle brother as it pertains to different imperial armies. Treating all imperial armies as the same faction doesn't change much except nerf all non imperial armies.

"Q. Can an unbound army use dedicated transports that are from a different codex? For example can a space marine tactical squad use an Astra Militarum chimera as a dedicated transport?
A. No"

So why are people talking about battle brothers when the issue is you can't share transports from a different CODEX.

The second question clarifies it a bit more in regards to battlebrothers.
"Q. Can units that are battlebrothers embark in each other's transports during deployment?
A. No"

So basically I think the intent is you can't embark on different codex transports even if battle brothers however we need clarification from devs.

I agree with gungo. This is definitely the intention, it was just worded in such a way that it could be misinterpreted- par for the course, really.

I cant find where it says they are treated as battle brothers. If you could find page and graph for me, I'd appreciate it.

As for those two questions, they are two very different questions.
One relates to a unit purchasing a DT that isn't available to it on its datasheet, and isn't even from thr same faction
The other relates to starting the game in a non-DT transport

 jokerkd wrote:
I cant find where it says they are treated as battle brothers. If you could find page and graph for me, I'd appreciate it.

As for those two questions, they are two very different questions.
One relates to a unit purchasing a DT that isn't available to it on its datasheet, and isn't even from thr same faction
The other relates to starting the game in a non-DT transport

What he said.

 jokerkd wrote:
I cant find where it says they are treated as battle brothers. If you could find page and graph for me, I'd appreciate it.

As for those two questions, they are two very different questions.
One relates to a unit purchasing a DT that isn't available to it on its datasheet, and isn't even from thr same faction
The other relates to starting the game in a non-DT transport

I know thier different question which is why I was talking about intent.
Secondly The first question doesn't say purchase at all. It says use. Unbound means you purchase whatever the heck you like that has a datasheet. The question was about different codex but same faction using another codex dedicated transports. But the intent is they don't want different codex using another codex transport.

As I said before this is what I think they intend but whole thing is clear as mud and it needs another clarification from the devs. Until than we will just wait to see what they say.

gungo wrote:

Secondly The first question doesn't say purchase at all. It says use. Unbound means you purchase whatever the heck you like that has a datasheet. The question was about different codex but same faction using another codex dedicated transports. But the intent is they don't want different codex using another codex transport.

Not quite.

The first question you quoted was "using a Chimera as a Dedicated Transport". In order for a unit to use a Vehicle as a Dedicated Transport, it has to be purchased as a Dedicated Transport. There are some very specific differences between a Transport and a Dedicated Transport.

Tactical Marines can purchase Rhinos, Drop Pods, and Razorbacks as Dedicated Transports, but not a Lander Raider. Even in Unbound, you cannot have a Tactical Marine unit purchase a Land Raider AS a Dedicated Transport. They can purchase a Heavy Support Land Raider as a Transport, but that is different and carries some different rules with it.

And you CAN share Transports from a different codex (provided Capacity rules are met, of course), they just cannot start deployment in them.

The really odd part is that a unit with ICs from another Faction count as being from all the Factions represented, and so an IC cannot join a unit in a Transport from another Faction.

The odd part is that Battle Brothers specifically mentions this capacity as an example of what Battle Brothers can do. Not necessarily in Deployment, but it doesn't restrict it, either.

Hmmm. I just checked the rulebook and it does raise somewhat of a question:

Space Marines, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, etc are not actually listed on the chart, but they're all listed as "Armies of the Imperium".

So, if taken literally on Team Jacob's side, then Space Marines renting out their Drop Pods are still legal, as they're all considered the same army as the rest of the IoM (they all share one slot on the chart). Taking Team Edward still has the same results.

This means that the only actual units affected would be Eldar Units and Chaos Units, as they're the only armies who have battle brothers that don't share a square with them, and in the case of Chaos it's only the Daemons (who probably don't give to asses about transports anyways).

I'm still on Team Jacob, as the "Armies of the Imperium" is clearly meant as a shorthand so that they didn't have to print another 5-6 rows and columns stating the exact same thing, but if taken literally then this means Drop Pod Taxi can still be a thing.

EDIT: well, either that or Ghaz will be giving me his recipe on "word soup" as I eat them again.

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Hmmm. I just checked the rulebook and it does raise somewhat of a question:

Space Marines, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Imperial Guard, etc are not actually listed on the chart, but they're all listed as "Armies of the Imperium".

That is only for determining Ally relationships, it is NOT for determining the Faction of the army. Faction determinations are specifically noted as being the codex and the Faction indicator on the datasheet (where appropriate).

As above

You are confusing Faction with Ally Status. Faction is explicitly and unambiguously defined, and is not altered bythe ally chart.

Team Jacob, and yes, it seems like a good way to frame rules debates.