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 Ashiraya wrote:

No, but they are an example that epitomises the problem. Marines =/= Marines.

Another is AA. With the new supplement nerfing flyer skyfire, compare the AA options of the 3 codices. And just compare psychic powers.

While true for 40k, its not true for 30k.

Each legion isn't so much a different list/book as it is all the same list with more detailed Chapter Tactics. They all fundamentally have access to the same stuff (exceptions exist of course) with ~2 unique units each (one of which being a termie variant) and a handful of special characters, which means that all legions have access to ~90% of all available units.

As far as comparisons go, 30k marines are more similar to comparing balance issues within the CTs of C:SM than it is to comparing C:SM to C:CSM or C:BA.

To highlight:

My Word Bearers have:

Gal Vorbak
Mhara Gal
Ashen Circle
Anakatis Kul
Five special characters
Different psychic powers
A special melee weapon
Special squad upgrade for most normal squads
Daemon allies
Special generic HQ choice

Compare to Ultramarines who get, aside from a different CT equivalent;

Fulmentarus Terminators
Locutarus Storm squads
Invictarus Suzerain squads
3 special characters (one of which is a Dreadnought)
Special HQ Rhino
Special melee weapon
Special armour option

With each Legion also getting several different detachments with their own bonuses and limitations in the form of RoW.

Yeah, no, I would not compare this to different CTs that give a special rule or two and a special character (more if you play UM).

There is not '~2 unique units.' 2 is the very minimum for the Legions that have had time to get anything at all yet, and most have more.

Comparing 40k BA and UM, they have a special rule different here and there but otherwise the same assault squads, rhinos, tactical squads, drop pods, captains, scouts, devastators, vindicators, predators, land raiders, Librarians...

C:CSM is a bit odd out but their core units are similar (albeit with fewer special rules and bonuses) and are flatly worse in most cases.

Most Legions are not even near a complete state. The WB are probably the closest, but it is obvious that some like Salamanders and Ultramarines will get much more further down the line.

 Ashiraya wrote:
To highlight:

My Word Bearers have:

Gal Vorbak
Mhara Gal
Ashen Circle
Anakatis Kul
Five special characters
Different psychic powers
A special melee weapon
Special squad upgrade for most normal squads
Daemon allies
Special generic HQ choice

Compare to Ultramarines who get, aside from a different CT equivalent;

Fulmentarus Terminators
Locutarus Storm squads
Invictarus Suzerain squads
3 special characters (one of which is a Dreadnought)
Special HQ Rhino
Special melee weapon
Special armour option

With each Legion also getting several different detachments with their own bonuses and limitations in the form of RoW.

And in comparison, these two legions have not only had some love in the initial books but ALSO a complete book dedicated to their specific campaign.

HOWEVER this abundance of different units, special characters, weapons and armour....

Doesn't change the fact that your Rhinos are still Rhinos, your Tactical Marines are still Tactical Marines and your Fellblade is still a Fellblade.

Legions have unique units. Some have more than others. Ok. No one disputed that. However the core of your army - your weapons, your wargear, your army special rules and easily 4/5ths of your total force will be IDENTICAL in points costs, stats and function as your opponent's army. This itself is fundamentally different from 40k where even basic Tactical Marines have different wargear options depending on the book you purchase them from, basic Rhinos have different speeds and special rules and basic Land Raiders have 4-5 different version OF THE SAME MODEL with different transport capabilities, firing capabilities and points costs.

That alone is just not right.

If I see a Land Raider I should be able to assume that it functions the exact same way as my own Land Raider sans upgrades. It shouldn't suddenly start generating warp charge dice because it is silver. It shouldn't carry more models because it's painted blue. It shouldn't deep strike because it's red.

30k has a fixed standard across the board. You see a Rhino? It's a Rhino. It does as Rhinos do. You see that Tactical Marine? He's a Tactical Marine. He might have a quirky trait from his Legion but functionally he's still a tactical marine, costs the same as one, performs the same role as one.

Also, for the record...your fancy Ultramarines command Rhino? Might want to read the paragraph in italics with it. Particularly the bit where 'it may be taken in any Legiones Astartes Crusade Legion army as a non-compulsory HQ choice above 1,000 points.'

But the Ultramarines also get it as a DT for a MoS.

It is true that the UM and the WB have had more attention than the others but that is because they got their turn for focus first (having had to share HH5 with fewer other Legions). This is unlikely to remain the case as the rules continue to develop.

My point is that there is more difference than just CT.

1) limits on the FOC (can't spam LoWs, can't spam relics w/o permission, a lot less ally shenanigans)
2) the community itself is more anti-cheese than 40k is now-a-days
3) though most armies are marines, the other big ones still hold there own and have strengths and weaknesses that are easy enough to understand

 Brennonjw wrote:
1) limits on the FOC (can't spam LoWs, can't spam relics w/o permission, a lot less ally shenanigans)
2) the community itself is more anti-cheese than 40k is now-a-days
3) though most armies are marines, the other big ones still hold there own and have strengths and weaknesses that are easy enough to understand

Pretty much this.

Also:
1) Actually working Mechanicum in 3 flavors.
2) Crazy flexible Militia-list.
3) Compatible with 40k(More or less...).

Still not playing Legiones Astartes.