Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So according to my battlescribe, an option to take on a battlewagon is a Supa-Kannon, which is a S9 Ap3 PRIMARY Weapon, large blast. I have yet to use a primary weapon so I looked it up and the rules look like the cancel out a number of other rules in regards to vehicles.

For one, it says "A model shooting a primary weapon shoots the number of times indicated on its profile - whether or not the bearer has moved." Does that cancel out the rules regarding vehicles going cruising speed? For instance, with the KillKannon I can't shoot it if I go cruising speed because it is ordinance. So is that not the case with this weapon?

Also, If i equip my Battlewagonz with Supa-Kannonz do I then get to fire other weapons on the Battlewagon AND this weapon? because again, ordinance says no, but this isn't ordinance for some reason.

Lastly, am I even allowed to outfit my battlewagonz with this option since in the rules for it on Battle scribe it says "Imperial Armor Apocalypse 2013" and I will not be playing Apocalypse?

And one last thing, what do you think about facing off against an Ork Army that had 3 S9 AP3 Large Blast Primary weapons that had a range of 60inches?

SemperMortis wrote:
Lastly, am I even allowed to outfit my battlewagonz with this option since in the rules for it on Battle scribe it says "Imperial Armor Apocalypse 2013" and I will not be playing Apocalypse?

From the first draft FAQ:

Q: Can I use Apocalypse Formations in non-Apocalypse games?
A: No.

Of course you and your group can make house rules to the contrary if you all agree.

 Ghaz wrote:

SemperMortis wrote:
Lastly, am I even allowed to outfit my battlewagonz with this option since in the rules for it on Battle scribe it says "Imperial Armor Apocalypse 2013" and I will not be playing Apocalypse?

From the first draft FAQ:

Q: Can I use Apocalypse Formations in non-Apocalypse games?
A: No.

Of course you and your group can make house rules to the contrary if you all agree.

It isn't a formation it is simply an upgrade for an existing unit, its just an upgrade that is written in that book, does that make a differene? Specifically because as I said it isn't a formation rather just a piece of gear that Battlescribe says I can take.

Put down battlescribe and pick up your codex.

The reason battlescribe told you to look in IA Apoc is because that is the book that contains all of the associated rules and will tell you whether you need to be playing an apoc game or not.

The battlewagon alternative here is not a formation so the faq answer on formations is not applicable.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Put down battlescribe and pick up your codex.

The reason battlescribe told you to look in IA Apoc is because that is the book that contains all of the associated rules and will tell you whether you need to be playing an apoc game or not.

The battlewagon alternative here is not a formation so the faq answer on formations is not applicable.

So based on that, the answer would be no, you can not take a Supa-kannon on a BW unless you are playing Apocalypse. To bad, that would almost make BW's worth a damn again, granted it would make them cost almost 200points a model

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Put down battlescribe and pick up your codex.

The reason battlescribe told you to look in IA Apoc is because that is the book that contains all of the associated rules and will tell you whether you need to be playing an apoc game or not.

The battlewagon alternative here is not a formation so the faq answer on formations is not applicable.

Its the same principle though. You don't use Apocalypse rules if you're not playing Apocalypse.

The Supa-Kannon is also in Imperial Armour 8 so you don't need to play Apocalypse if you want to use it, you just have to persuade your opponent to let you use really old, slightly defunct rules

xlDuke wrote:
The Supa-Kannon is also in Imperial Armour 8 so you don't need to play Apocalypse if you want to use it, you just have to persuade your opponent to let you use really old, slightly defunct rules

Ok, so just ask if I can use IA 8 before proceeding, thanks

 Ghaz wrote:

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Put down battlescribe and pick up your codex.

The reason battlescribe told you to look in IA Apoc is because that is the book that contains all of the associated rules and will tell you whether you need to be playing an apoc game or not.

The battlewagon alternative here is not a formation so the faq answer on formations is not applicable.

Its the same principle though. You don't use Apocalypse rules if you're not playing Apocalypse.

Yes. This is true.

The very cover(image available on the fw website) flat says that the rules inside are for games of Warhammer 40,000 and for Apocalypse.

Battlescribe provides us with so many questions about the rules that can be answered by opening the rulebook or rulebooks involved. If you cannot open your rulebook for an already clear answer we shouldn't give you an answer beyond where to find it in the rulebook(per the tenents).

Just because the book is called IA Apocalypse doesn't mean the units therein are Apoc only any more than the classic heavy flamer/assault cannon examples.

Open the rulebook and look at the entry to find the very clear answers to all of your questions. If you still have questions ask them specifically: we are not allowed to hand out rules.

By the same rights; we have no problems explaining how the rules work and why they work that way.

Oh, and IA apoc(2013) is the most recent source of the enhanced battlewagon rules so IA8 should not cut it(and, fine, yes the new options for battlewagon are not apoc-only; now you need the book or datasheet for pricing and other rules)

First imperial armour apocalypse isn't an appocalypse only book. It could just be the only FW book with any ork rules in them to be not OOP. It was just a way to update a lot of FW models to the 6th edition. It also includes units suc as the MEGA-dread, the kustom-MEGA-dread and the big squiggoth. All of these things have a 40k approved stamp on them. But I can't find any extra battlewagon rules in there exept from the lifta wagon that is really an other unit.

IA8 does contain some upgrades to the battle wagon. So it should at least reference to Ia8 instead. the big question is if the GW codex battlewagon overrides the Fw bttle wagon. This is the same issue really as the IG manticore tanks with different GW and FW rules

The FW version is clearly superior in any way since it did not have the GW codex point increase. The strange thing is that the entry doesn't include a you can use a bttle wagon as a Heavy choice in an ork army line. It just gives stats and points but no force org slot.

The rules for the suppa kannon in Ia8 are.
R60 S9 ap3 ORDNANCE 1 5" blast instead of primary weapon 1 ( Ia appoc 2013)


I am kinda curious how you guys would handle this. Considering the FAQ

Q: Can you still take Formations or models that are no longer available, like the Void Shield Generator (an out-of-production model) or the Skyhammer Annihilation Force Formation (an out-of-print Formation)?
A: Yes.

There was another answer in the FAQ about different versions and later printings. The answer was that you always use the newest version of the rules and to check the copyright date in the front of the book for that.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
There was another answer in the FAQ about different versions and later printings. The answer was that you always use the newest version of the rules and to check the copyright date in the front of the book for that.

It was a suggestion to use the newest rules in your collection. It wasn't a ruling that you had to go out and buy new rules as old rules were defunct.

Much like most things in YMDC I still don't have a definitive answer on whether or not I can take a BW with a Supa-Kannon on my Battewagonz.

All you have to do it look up the actual rules source instead of using battle scribe.

 CrownAxe wrote:
All you have to do it look up the actual rules source instead of using battle scribe.

Which at the moment is border line impossible to find.

Edited. Do not use Dakka to solicit copyright violations. --Janthkin

All 3 of my flgs's stock a copy of IA apoc(2013).

I haven't been to my local GW in a while because it is on the other side of the city and I don't feel like driving 45 minutes for items I can get at closer stores unless I have reason to be on that side of town anyways but I would be surprised if they didn't have it in stock(they did last time I was there).

Forgeworld has it in stock on their site.

The rules and all information you are asking for is in that book along with many others you may find fun.

As far as the final question about whether I, personally, would take issue with seeing 3 of them across the table in a game: not if they are properly modelled(meaning either the official fw kit or a suitably cool looking conversion)