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Rosebuddy wrote:
I believe it's moral to use violence to suppress the formation of a fascist movement because simply saying you disagree with them doesn't change anything.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. You want to stop political movements you don't like? Vote, and organize like minded people to vote as well. Battle in the marketplace of ideas. Run for office. Be the change you want to see.

If you are willing to use violence to suppress political speech you don't like, you're the problem. In this country, freedom of speech applies to everyone, even the donkey-caves. Especially the donkey-caves, because people saying popular, mainstream things don't need protection.

Yup. As long as they are operating within a semblance of a democratic system you don't have the justification to use violence. Even Che Guevara thought so.

If they remove that democratic system then by all means form up and launch your revolution but until then combating them with violence is not acceptable.

 Ouze wrote:

Rosebuddy wrote:
I believe it's moral to use violence to suppress the formation of a fascist movement because simply saying you disagree with them doesn't change anything.

I couldn't disagree more strongly. You want to stop political movements you don't like? Vote, and organize like minded people to vote as well. Battle in the marketplace of ideas. Run for office. Be the change you want to see.

If you are willing to use violence to suppress political speech you don't like, you're the problem. In this country, freedom of speech applies to everyone, even the donkey-caves. Especially the donkey-caves, because people saying popular, mainstream things don't need protection.

Yes. The whole point of a democracy with the right to free speech is that you use your voice, not your fists. I said it once some time ago in another thread, but in today's world, the greatest weapon in defending liberty can be the cellphone in your pocket (with the capability to communicate pictures, videos, and words to the world), and not the gun in your holster.

So... read an ex-Attorney General *spin* Trump's criticism of the Judge of the University of Trump civil case:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/04/alberto-r-gonzales-trump-has-a-right-to-question-whether-hes-getting-a-fair-trial/

My thoughts?

I'm stuck at this:

Trump's attack on this Judge ethnicity was racism plain and simple. I simply can't get past that.

To claim that someone is unable to objectively and professionally perform his job because of his race *is* racism... is it not?

I get the concern for that author's views on a Judge's appearance of impropriety... but, that's why we have appeals court if there were, indeed, some "impropriety".

Cellphones and such have effected todays society to a greater degree and more then people realize, things people used to get away with before you can't cause somebody is gonna get you on video, people can't say oh I saw a UFO or a Sasquatch or bigfoot or Elvis, but no picture, that doesn't wash in todays society now, no pics or videos it didn't happen and mainly because pics and video cannot lie, they may not be accurate since they will not show before, after or other things, but they do not lie, unlike people you can have a hundred different people watch the same seen and probably get almost a hundred different answers on what happened.

it used to be rare or very uncommon for someone to have a camera or video camera with them, now its rare or very uncommon to find someone without one.

 whembly wrote:
To claim that someone is unable to objectively and professionally perform his job because of his race *is* racism... is it not?

Yeah, it's almost as if Trump is actually a racist douchebag and not just pretending to "tell it like it is" for the sake of votes. Shocking, I know...

Asterios wrote:
Cellphones and such have effected todays society to a greater degree and more then people realize, things people used to get away with before you can't cause somebody is gonna get you on video, people can't say oh I saw a UFO or a Sasquatch or bigfoot or Elvis, but no picture, that doesn't wash in todays society now, no pics or videos it didn't happen and mainly because pics and video cannot lie, they may not be accurate since they will not show before, after or other things, but they do not lie, unlike people you can have a hundred different people watch the same seen and probably get almost a hundred different answers on what happened.

it used to be rare or very uncommon for someone to have a camera or video camera with them, now its rare or very uncommon to find someone without one.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Are you familiar with photoshop?

 Spinner wrote:

Asterios wrote:
Cellphones and such have effected todays society to a greater degree and more then people realize, things people used to get away with before you can't cause somebody is gonna get you on video, people can't say oh I saw a UFO or a Sasquatch or bigfoot or Elvis, but no picture, that doesn't wash in todays society now, no pics or videos it didn't happen and mainly because pics and video cannot lie, they may not be accurate since they will not show before, after or other things, but they do not lie, unlike people you can have a hundred different people watch the same seen and probably get almost a hundred different answers on what happened.

it used to be rare or very uncommon for someone to have a camera or video camera with them, now its rare or very uncommon to find someone without one.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Are you familiar with photoshop?

Even with recording technology people view it differently. See the Zappruder film, the 9/11 truther videos, and the yellow/grey dress debate.

Man, im close to voting for trump seeing all the hateful horrible stuff the bernie/hillary supporters are doing here in CA.

I'm against career politicians. Hillary Career politician. Trump not. Though if Trump in office manages to negate a chunk of US Debt we all be praising him on his financial shenanigans eh (by not opening up the "Football"

Trump would do as good of job at balancing the defecit as Brownback...

True. We would seriously chuckle though if Trump does something off the wall to negate the debt. I can see it now. "China you build Islands in East China Sea?" and charge them something crazy like placing American made navigational bouys or something. Like a Million a day

 Spinner wrote:

Asterios wrote:
Cellphones and such have effected todays society to a greater degree and more then people realize, things people used to get away with before you can't cause somebody is gonna get you on video, people can't say oh I saw a UFO or a Sasquatch or bigfoot or Elvis, but no picture, that doesn't wash in todays society now, no pics or videos it didn't happen and mainly because pics and video cannot lie, they may not be accurate since they will not show before, after or other things, but they do not lie, unlike people you can have a hundred different people watch the same seen and probably get almost a hundred different answers on what happened.

it used to be rare or very uncommon for someone to have a camera or video camera with them, now its rare or very uncommon to find someone without one.

I'm not sure what you're saying here.

Are you familiar with photoshop?

photoshop can be identified quickly with the original data file, and even many photoshops can be identified just by looking at the pic.

Yeah, if you've seen quite a few shops in your time you can usually tell by the pixels.

Trump is indeed a racist buffoon.

Seriously...that judge was born in Indiana...about as un-Mexican a place there is.

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Trump is indeed a racist buffoon.

Seriously...that judge was born in Indiana...about as un-Mexican a place there is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/04/alberto-r-gonzales-trump-has-a-right-to-question-whether-hes-getting-a-fair-trial/?tid=sm_fb

Asterios wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Trump is indeed a racist buffoon.

Seriously...that judge was born in Indiana...about as un-Mexican a place there is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/04/alberto-r-gonzales-trump-has-a-right-to-question-whether-hes-getting-a-fair-trial/?tid=sm_fb

I read that to but disregarded it being Hillary situation with email.

So he's a member of something that has a similar name to a group that opposes Trump so he shouldn't be able to try the case. Sounds like grasping at straws to try to justify Trump being an idiot...

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Man, im close to voting for trump seeing all the hateful horrible stuff the bernie/hillary supporters are doing here in CA.

Care to show me the Sanders/Hillary shirts, signs or whatever these supposed supporters are wearing when attacking Trump supporters??

Because honestly, every single one of the videos that I've seen from San Jose or wherever else in California of anti-trump violence, they all look like they are just doing it to be dicks, and really don't support any political candidates (most even appear to not know what a political candidate is, even if you gave them a lesson written for 4 year olds)

 skyth wrote:
So he's a member of something that has a similar name to a group that opposes Trump so he shouldn't be able to try the case. Sounds like grasping at straws to try to justify Trump being an idiot...

no but should we ignore his concerns as just being racist? personally if you go after Trump there are more things that have more credence then this, personally most people would question the judge presiding over their case if they had reason too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Man, im close to voting for trump seeing all the hateful horrible stuff the bernie/hillary supporters are doing here in CA.

Care to show me the Sanders/Hillary shirts, signs or whatever these supposed supporters are wearing when attacking Trump supporters??

Because honestly, every single one of the videos that I've seen from San Jose or wherever else in California of anti-trump violence, they all look like they are just doing it to be dicks, and really don't support any political candidates (most even appear to not know what a political candidate is, even if you gave them a lesson written for 4 year olds)

wouldn't know about Clinton but did see some Sander's feel the bern signs there.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Man, im close to voting for trump seeing all the hateful horrible stuff the bernie/hillary supporters are doing here in CA.

Care to show me the Sanders/Hillary shirts, signs or whatever these supposed supporters are wearing when attacking Trump supporters??

Because honestly, every single one of the videos that I've seen from San Jose or wherever else in California of anti-trump violence, they all look like they are just doing it to be dicks, and really don't support any political candidates (most even appear to not know what a political candidate is, even if you gave them a lesson written for 4 year olds)

my bad, i was being sarcastic.

Great. Fine. He (Trump) is building his wall...or atleast...expressing his desire to.

But to call an American citizen a Mexican...and to do so with a derogatory tone, implying that this man is NOT a US citizen....

If that doesn't reek of racism, I don't know what does.

And honestly...I think racism is a stupid term. We are all human beings (homo sapiens)

Unless science has proven that "Mexicans" or "Africans" or "Asians" or whatever color person you want to name is *not* a human being...then it is cultural-ism or color-ism, essentially.

Asterios wrote:
wouldn't know about Clinton but did see some Sander's feel the bern signs there.

...Didn't you just post a bit about how if there aren't pictures of it, it didn't happen?

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

my bad, i was being sarcastic.

Lol, I wasn't being serious to call you out on some gak... I am curious because I know you're from that part of the Best Coast, and thought you might have seen better stuff than I have via local news.

Asterios wrote:

wouldn't know about Clinton but did see some Sander's feel the bern signs there.

I'm sure you got proof of that.

Asterios wrote:

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Trump is indeed a racist buffoon.

Seriously...that judge was born in Indiana...about as un-Mexican a place there is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/06/04/alberto-r-gonzales-trump-has-a-right-to-question-whether-hes-getting-a-fair-trial/?tid=sm_fb

Sure, but race doesn't legally enter into it.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/06/the-problem-with-calling-out-judges-for-their-race/485732/

 TheMeanDM wrote:
Great. Fine. He (Trump) is building his wall...or atleast...expressing his desire to.

But to call an American citizen a Mexican...and to do so with a derogatory tone, implying that this man is NOT a US citizen....

If that doesn't reek of racism, I don't know what does.

And honestly...I think racism is a stupid term. We are all human beings (homo sapiens)

Unless science has proven that "Mexicans" or "Africans" or "Asians" or whatever color person you want to name is *not* a human being...then it is cultural-ism or color-ism, essentially.

wasn't aware Mexican was a race or color, do you wish to alter your statement?

 Laughing Man wrote:

Asterios wrote:
wouldn't know about Clinton but did see some Sander's feel the bern signs there.

...Didn't you just post a bit about how if there aren't pictures of it, it didn't happen?

I've seen pictures, haven't you? figured you would have done an extensive search before making your declaration.

So you don't have any pictures then.

 Laughing Man wrote:
So you don't have any pictures then.

here have a Clinton and a Sanders supporter at the rally:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fphotos.smugmug.com%2F01News-2%2FBay-Area%2FDonald-Trumps-supporters-prepa%2Fi-f9LpQNM%2F0%2FL%2FSJM-SJTRUMP-0603-31-L.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mercurynews.com%2Fpolitics-government%2Fci_29971491%2Fsan-jose-supporters-line-up-hear-donald-trump&docid=TbVkbTef1hnJXM&tbnid=WCaQ8KrrsFTTaM%3A&w=800&h=566&bih=643&biw=1360&ved=0ahUKEwjUwpSItZLNAhUS2WMKHZFHDYkQMwgoKAgwCA&iact=mrc&uact=8

but let us look at other rally's where it seems sanders banners keep popping up:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fc.o0bg.com%2Frf%2Fimage_960w%2FBoston%2F2011-2020%2F2016%2F03%2F13%2FBostonGlobe.com%2FNational%2FImages%2F515418774.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bostonglobe.com%2Fnews%2Fnation%2F2016%2F03%2F13%2Fsanders-says-trump-lying-about-protest-plot%2Fm75KHVJL6DVPdLA98sHmHP%2Fstory.html&docid=uvkgsKxr4-HUwM&tbnid=ayn2XtbF9lK84M%3A&w=960&h=709&bih=643&biw=1360&ved=0ahUKEwjywYDstJLNAhVM4GMKHdqEC5oQMwgrKA8wDw&iact=mrc&uact=8

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fqzprod.files.wordpress.com%2F2016%2F03%2Fap_898417379585-e1457748893225.jpg%3Fquality%3D80%26strip%3Dall%26w%3D1600&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theodysseyonline.com%2Fsilencing-donald-trumps-supporters-answer&docid=btH1A3F_kaR6CM&tbnid=jec_Mw_rdsXK-M%3A&w=1600&h=900&bih=643&biw=1360&ved=0ahUKEwjywYDstJLNAhVM4GMKHdqEC5oQMwiAAShcMFw&iact=mrc&uact=8

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.lakana.com%2Fmedia.ktvu.com%2Fphoto%2F2016%2F06%2F03%2FTTH%2520SJ%2520TRUMP%2520PROTESTERS%25202_KTVU78e6_146.mxf_00.00.25.22_1464954329454_1399248_ver1.0_640_360.png&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ktvu.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F152082694-story&docid=N2dWgL41M-HtMM&tbnid=wkBput4FC0d_uM%3A&w=640&h=360&bih=643&biw=1360&ved=0ahUKEwiW7tWetJLNAhVO1WMKHbufCjQQMwhqKDMwMw&iact=mrc&uact=8

and the thing about these CL ads that keep popping up before Trump shows:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fimages%2Fuser5%2Fimageroot%2F2016%2F03%2F27%2Fpaid%2520trump%2520protest.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.progressivestoday.com%2Fheres-proof-bernie-sanders-supporters-paid-protest%2F&docid=r2KpwLrSdVrIKM&tbnid=cCtzuzX-w1L0PM%3A&w=1010&h=779&bih=643&biw=1360&ved=0ahUKEwjywYDstJLNAhVM4GMKHdqEC5oQMwhXKDMwMw&iact=mrc&uact=8



and even Sanders thinks they were his Supporters:

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-condemns-violent-protests-san-jose/story?id=39602627

also here is an article about a sanders supporter who broke into the rally:

http://www.mercurynews.com/politics-government/ci_29971491/san-jose-supporters-line-up-hear-donald-trump

I just proved you wrong, you made a claim and obviously you did not look hard enough if at all.

I believe the question was more aimed at do you have any evidence that Clinton/Sanders supporters were engaged in any of the violence? Of course they are protesting, as is their right to do. They have been doing so since Trump got in the race.