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Hey Guys,
I'm currently rebuilding my Ultramarines and am really struggling with a choice of weapon load out on my infantry.

part of me wants the hyper-optimised Grav loadout, or loadout A:

Combi-grav,
Gravgun,
Grav-cannon
Auspex
& Rhino.

but as my marines are painted in the classic blue with yellow trims scheme in tribute to earlier editions, I'm tempted by the old school, loadout B:

Chainsword & Bolt Pistol
Flamer
Missile Launcher
Auspex
& Rhino

......
please leave your suggestions in response, I don't have the rest of the list set out just yet, but they're going to form the core of my lists at 750ish points.
Counting on you Dakka!
Thanks,
GamerGuy

Auspexes are special issue wargear, only available to HQs.

The grav squad is technically the better of the two. More focussed, better in the modern meta, etc. Way more expensive, but you get what you pay for.

The second squad pulls all the right heartstrings though. Lower cost, better vs. soft targets (how much do you need to worry about those?) Very iconic and old school.

How competitive do you plan on being? I frequently use a classic ML/F squad. They generally aren’t the MVP of the battle, but they do OK. I tend to play in a casual environment though.

If you are going to use them as the core of your list, I’d take one of each. If I had to pick one, I’d probably go grav if I wanted to be competitive, classic otherwise. If I had to add a third, I’d go full melta.

Anything guys?
Is loadout A worth the extra 40pts in your opinions?

loadout B saves nearly 1/15th of the point allowance in 750point games?





Automatically Appended Next Post:
apologies to nevelon, my laggy PC only brought your post in after I'd posted the follow-up.... Sorry!

Wait? damn you're right, no auspexes then... I have them modelled cause they're cool, didn't realise they weren't an option...

Glad you feel my struggle on Loadout B, The heartstrings are played like a harp by the classic loadout.

-targets are as they will always be at 750pts, and the lower points allowance of the casual games I'm looking for may invalidate the focused grav squad a little? -I'm feeling full melta are going to be a Drop Pod unit? Taking a single pod ensures it comes in turn 2, taking out any armour (which will hurt more at 750) and being ObSec in my opponents deployment.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Further considerations given, I'm rocking Loadout B. Victory isn't essential to me, and aesthetically missile launchers and flamethrowers are my style of Warfare.

Cheers man,
GamerGuy

Heavy weapons are better on dedicated units (i.e. Devastators).

That ML has to sit in the backfield and makes the other 4 marines firepower useless.

Grav cannon mitigates this slightly, as does HB (due to the number of shots).

GamerGuy wrote:
apologies to nevelon, my laggy PC only brought your post in after I'd posted the follow-up.... Sorry!

Wait? damn you're right, no auspexes then... I have them modelled cause they're cool, didn't realise they weren't an option...

Glad you feel my struggle on Loadout B, The heartstrings are played like a harp by the classic loadout.

-targets are as they will always be at 750pts, and the lower points allowance of the casual games I'm looking for may invalidate the focused grav squad a little? -I'm feeling full melta are going to be a Drop Pod unit? Taking a single pod ensures it comes in turn 2, taking out any armour (which will hurt more at 750) and being ObSec in my opponents deployment.

I moved my one sarge with an ausepx over to a dev squad. Counts-as a signum.

As for what you see in low point games, it’s frankly anything these days. 750 could see things like Imp. Knights, wairthknights, or a host of other really nasty things. Sometimes multiples. So without knowing how competitive your local scene is, it’s hard to make recommendations. I will say that 750 is a point level that tends not to attract the hyper-competitive. YMMV.

On the melta squad: I’ve fielded them in both a rhino and pod. The pod does suit them better, but they can get the job done in a tank. And a single pod comes in on turn one. You get half your pods, round up, in the first turn. Pod lists are not for everyone, but they hit fast and hard. High risk/high reward.

zerosignal wrote:Heavy weapons are better on dedicated units (i.e. Devastators).

That ML has to sit in the backfield and makes the other 4 marines firepower useless.

Grav cannon mitigates this slightly, as does HB (due to the number of shots).

While you are correct about them being better on dedicated units, that does not make them useless on tac squads. And at low point values, you might not have the spare points for a dev squad.

While combat squadding the heavy to the back field is often a decent idea, there are advantages to dragging it downfield. Not every game, but it’s nice to have options. For example, if you are dealing with a Imp. Knight, odds are it’s ion shield is pointing towards your main AV firepower, so a krack missile at it’s side/rear might do more good coming from a tac squad in the midfield.

I feel that the Grav cannon, HB and MM are the best picks for tac squads. Assuming you still take them. But I’m an old fashioned Ultramarine, and the codex tells us to take 10 man squads with both the special and the heavy. Grav works best on the move, and kills the things that really need to die these days. Both the HB and MM are low cost, so I don’t feel like I’m wasting a lot of points if I’m just snap firing them. And on turns where you don’t need to move, the HB backs up the squad’s bolters well, and the MM is the 3rd melta shot in a MM/M c-melta squad. Which helps a lot to kill a tank. Plus the tac squad was heading down the table anyway, which is where melta needs to be.

But I still field my ML/F squad. They have been serving loyally since the RT days. And while I’m very “meh” on missile launchers these days, they still mostly work.

Friends don't let friends use missile launchers.

Martel732 wrote:
Friends don't let friends use missile launchers.

The only reason I still include them in lists is tradition and WYSWYG. They have been the stock heavy weapon for so long, I have tons of them. While I only have 4 lascannons, I’ve got around a dozen MLs built and painted (more in the bits box). So sometimes they find their way into lists just because it’s what I own. I only have two grav cannons, and one still needs paint.

Tradition is pretty self explanatory. I do some sub-par stuff just due to sheer inertia. Like when building my BaC box, I needed to put at least one of the MLs together, just for the looks.

But yeah, from a pure math POV, MLs are not the best. I regret every frag missile I send downrange. Even in “optimal” situations, they still fail me. And if all I’m using is kracks, might as well pony up for the LCs for the extra S and AP.

And yes, I know single shot AV is not an decent use of time/points. Stripping HP is much better. Brings us back to "I do some sub-par stuff just due to sheer inertia"

X

I don't like Grav guns in Tactical Squads. The range is too short to get much use out them; better to use a plasma gun, which can move and fire more effectively.

I play Crimson Fists so my attitude towards Heavy Bolters is a little more favorable than it is for an Ultramarine, but the basic principles in equipping our Marines is the same. I like the following loadouts:

1) Gravcannon & Plasma Gun. Powerful shooting, and can move and fire in a pinch.

2) Heavy Bolter & Flamer. Cheap, well suited for killing enemy infantry. Best in a Rhino, possibly with a Veteran Sergeant with a power fist or ax.

3) Heavy Bolter & Melta gun. Put them in a Rhino with a Sergeant armed with a combi-Melta and maybe a power weapon too. A good unit for seizing ground and supporting an advance.

4) Plasma Cannon/ Missile Launcher & Plasma Gun. Give them a Sergeant with a combi-Plasma and combat squad them; it's often a good idea to take a Razorback to stick the double Plasma Gun combat squad in. The heavy weapon can hang out on a flank, on an objective, or act as a screen, taking pot shots, while the other combat squad skirmishes on the flank.

magnetize? then you can do both old school or fluffy and convert back to competitive with just a few seconds

Five models with one grav cannon in a Rhino. Efficient!