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I've been thinking on how to implement a meaning for sacred numbers again and what I came up with so far is giving the Aspiring Champion a Gift of Mutation for free if the squad size is equal or multiples of their patron gods sacred number. Not too over the top.

I was also thinking that the Aspiring Champion should maybe have access to Terminator armour, like in the olden days. This would only be possible if your force did not have Terminators in the Elites section. My reasoning behind this is that the Terminator squad was split up to lead the weaker units for that specific mission. Having Terminator armour on our Aspiring Champions would negate some of the draw backs for having the Champion of Chaos special rule. Units of Raptors and Bikers wouldn't be able to get this.

Also I had the idea that purchased Gifts of Mutation could be re - rolled if the result of a no reward was rolled. The way I see purchased gifts is that they would have been rewarded before the battle had begun due to the rewards being previously granted for past actions. I think it sucks to pay 10 points for nothing. Rewards gained during the battle would have to accept the roll just the same though, and I think so should the ones for having a sacred number sized squad, seeing as how you are getting it for free. Daemon Princes would not be able to take Gifts of Mutation as they have already reached the pinnacle of their transformation.

What do you think?

FOR THE DARK GODS!!!

The Terminator champ is a cute idea but won't do anything. You won't fit in a Rhino and you lose out on a second special for the basic Marine squad as they won't be able to fit in most transports otherwise, and footslogging Chaos Marines are junk.

Terminator Sergeants aren't really worthwhile especially if you remove them from the Elite Slot.

What if CSM units got a special weapon slot for having modelsal to their god's sacred number? For me, the biggest mechanical downside to taking sacred number- sized units is not getting the special weapon for having 10 men.

After that, anything would just be icing. I would really only be interested in GoM if it was free, so that's cool.

I also think CSM champs need to be better than loyalist sergeants in general, as a trade- off for it not being optional. Maybe 2W champs all around? Maybe champs gain one wound if their units have models equal to their god's sacred number?

Maybe these units could also get +1 to combat res?

There are tons of bonuses you could tack on that wouldn't be game- breaking?

Maybe as it's a gamble to maintain and field the sacred number, since casualties would stop it, make the reward fairly juicy. Like units with MoS get an EXTRA +1 to their initiative, Nurgle EXTRA +1 Toughness, etc. etc. But only get these bonuses if the unit is that exact number OR a multiple of that number.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
The Terminator champ is a cute idea but won't do anything. You won't fit in a Rhino and you lose out on a second special for the basic Marine squad as they won't be able to fit in most transports otherwise, and footslogging Chaos Marines are junk.

Well you don't have to give the AC terminator if you wanted to put him in a Rhino, it would just be something you could do. I know that there are people that do play big squads and utilise either Ahriman or Huron using Master of Deception to get them further up field. You could also use Cypher.

pm713 wrote:
Terminator Sergeants aren't really worthwhile especially if you remove them from the Elite Slot.

Didn't you know, Terminators are useless this edition I use them in Elites myself, I just thought from a fluffy perspective it might fit better and it would be some form of sacrifice to make that SM players couldn't moan about.

What if it was extended to include cult troops as well?

 Powerfisting wrote:
What if CSM units got a special weapon slot for having modelsal to their god's sacred number? For me, the biggest mechanical downside to taking sacred number- sized units is not getting the special weapon for having 10 men.

Hmm, yeah, I was including Cult troops as well in this part though and was thinking from their perspective. Perhaps it should be restricted to cult troops only? You can still get a BM in a squad of six NMs, that's how I run them.

 Powerfisting wrote:

I also think CSM champs need to be better than loyalist sergeants in general, as a trade- off for it not being optional. Maybe 2W champs all around? Maybe champs gain one wound if their units have models equal to their god's sacred number?

Perhaps they should have an extra wound, but I think that's a separate discussion from this. I think the problem with having so many 2 wound models is book keeping and SM players.

 Powerfisting wrote:
Maybe these units could also get +1 to combat res?

I guess that could be something that your non cult troops could get, seeing as how they aren't perhaps as good as the cult troops. So a free GoM on the champ for sacred number and +1 to combat res.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:
Maybe as it's a gamble to maintain and field the sacred number, since casualties would stop it, make the reward fairly juicy. Like units with MoS get an EXTRA +1 to their initiative, Nurgle EXTRA +1 Toughness, etc. etc. But only get these bonuses if the unit is that exact number OR a multiple of that number.

Well, with a free GoM it would be rewarded at the start of the game so the Champion would keep it regardless of squad loses. But maybe. I agree on the multiples thing and should have said that in my OP. I'll update. I think +1 T would be too good though, maybe Shrouding or something.

Access to almost everything Lords can take, special/heavy weapons(with an option to take/grant? relentless) and 2W sounds like a good start.
Chaos Champions should be Chaos Marine Nobs- holding a group of lackeys together by virtue of power and strength, and also the favour of the gods.
Some will merely command their mob but many will actively participate in whatever they are about- not content to allow a minion to gun down slaves of the false Emperor with a heavy bolter while he's stuck taking pot shots with a boltpistol.

Every kill the squad makes pleases the dark gods, every kill a champion makes personally should be a supplication, with enemy characters adding significantly more to the tally.

The boon chart should be the Chaos gods shouting 'More of that' by throwing gifts that affect what the champion is actively doing.

At the end of the chaos turn you tally the kills made by each marked squad with a champion. Add this to a dice roll, characters count double and the champion's kills count double, meaning an enemy character killed by the champion is +4.

There are two results for each number- one for shooty kills, one for choppy kills (choose if you achieved both)

Shooty results confer rending and ignores cover etc, choppy results confer fleet, smash and +1 strength, both sides include +1 toughness, reroll saves and generic boosts.

Balance this by the minimum number of kills per turn you'll need to get a possible result and note that larger squads tend to kill more- the more successful champions will draw favour from the dark gods.

 =Angel= wrote:
Access to almost everything Lords can take, special/heavy weapons(with an option to take/grant? relentless) and 2W sounds like a good start.
Chaos Champions should be Chaos Marine Nobs- holding a group of lackeys together by virtue of power and strength, and also the favour of the gods.
Some will merely command their mob but many will actively participate in whatever they are about- not content to allow a minion to gun down slaves of the false Emperor with a heavy bolter while he's stuck taking pot shots with a boltpistol.

Every kill the squad makes pleases the dark gods, every kill a champion makes personally should be a supplication, with enemy characters adding significantly more to the tally.

The boon chart should be the Chaos gods shouting 'More of that' by throwing gifts that affect what the champion is actively doing.

At the end of the chaos turn you tally the kills made by each marked squad with a champion. Add this to a dice roll, characters count double and the champion's kills count double, meaning an enemy character killed by the champion is +4.

There are two results for each number- one for shooty kills, one for choppy kills (choose if you achieved both)

Shooty results confer rending and ignores cover etc, choppy results confer fleet, smash and +1 strength, both sides include +1 toughness, reroll saves and generic boosts.

Balance this by the minimum number of kills per turn you'll need to get a possible result and note that larger squads tend to kill more- the more successful champions will draw favour from the dark gods.

I think this might be going bit too far really. It's going to mean even more book keeping. The Chart though could be split into two though so it would better reflect what your champion was being used for.

It should be like in the 3.5 codex where Champs could access most wargear outside of relics at slightly cheaper prices.

Champion of Chaos should be a buff in challenges, not force them. Khorne and Slaanesh marks might confer mandatory challenges.

Port over the 2d6 boon table from WoC, or just make it a flat upgrade based on the Champ's mark.

The suggestion of GoM in the OP is a mystical reward for a mystical practice, and that is really good. These other things like an extra special weapon are not that.

I think the OP, I think it accomplishes what it sets out to do; it provides a use for the ink that GoM is printed with, and it is an effect that would never motivate for purely gameplay purposes. I think the replies have very little tondo with the OP and could just be sort of floating around the board without being attached to this particular thread.