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Tau in both fluff and gameplay.
They are really not fun to play against as they just sit in their deployment zone and wipe you out from across the board, ignoring cover and in some cases LOS

I think tau could be redeemed but they would have to do away with ALOT of their gear or ratchet up the price of units considerably. The biggest problem (and this is coming from someone who played tau (formerly, I found CSM, much more fun in their play style and fluff) is that they are an army of artillery platforms. A fight with tau doesn't play out like a battle, it plays out as a sprint across no mans land to a line of heavy weapons platform. effectively they function like World War One machine gun camps, forcing foes to run right into their kill zones while remaining safe themselves.

Elderp, because when your a space elf you don't need a brain. everything single thing you have is better in every way to anything else, who needs thinking?

With the new faq and clarifications in Dark Eldar by a mile from a rules perspective. There may be some niche coven lists but they will be so forgettable and one note compared to any army out there and not even good one note. More like desperate one note to try and make a non-army viable.

The Dark Kin got it bad.

Worst army right now? Probably CSM. Their codex is just so outdated, and has been almost since release. So many of their good abilities have to be paid for over and above the cost of the unit itself, it isn't funny. I don't even play regular CSM, but when I face them it almost hurts me just how easy it is to beat them. I've hardly ever lost to them except when I first started playing (back then the Dark Angels gave CSM a run for their money as far as worst codex goes). Plus CSM have a truly ancient model line, with most of their kits being well over 10 years old and some much older than that (looking at you Berserkers, CSM).

 Lukash_ wrote:
This thread will end well.

From a fluff perspective, the Tau.

From a rules perspective, the Space Wolves, particularly the idiocy that is Wulfen.

+1 Although I would say Tau are pretty much equal with SW on unpleasant rules. They are to shooting what SW are to assault but +1 because they have a dirt cheap hard counter for everything.

Now worst as far as power level goes I'd say

1.Orks
2. DE
3. BA/CSM

.

It's been 0 days since our last Tau hate thread.

The hate is real

All the space marine factions.

Take them all except grey knights, put them in one book. I exclude the grey knights because they're really the only one of them that seems to function almost completely differently in the background and such where as all the other chapters more or less could be switched around with the chapter tactics rule, especially if it could also affect the FOC; but really they could also be covered with formations which seems to be the more popular way to do it for GW lately anyway.

 Sidstyler wrote:
It's been 0 days since our last Tau hate thread.

Tau is what you play when you want to ensure that both players have a miserable experience!

Worst army? As a pure Dark Eldar player who mainly plays against Necrons, Eldar and Mechanicum I vote Dark Eldar.

The army I hate the most? Necrons....they will not stay dead! Also, their fluff change into basically 40k Tomb Kings did nothing for me.

Worst in what way?

For crappy fluff and stupid ideas, Tyranids are even sillier than Space Wolves.

For crappy to play against I vote Necrons. Your best bet to win is to just ignore the undying troops and go for the objectives. Even my SoB will kill more Tau or Eldar during a game than if facing Egyptian Robots in SPACE!

For worst as in worst to play as, probably CSM of the standard factions. "But they got cool FW stuff and can ally in Daemons" people say... What if you don't have money for FW and you actually want to play CSM, not Daemons?

 n0t_u wrote:
All the space marine factions.

Take them all except grey knights, put them in one book. I exclude the grey knights because they're really the only one of them that seems to function almost completely differently in the background and such where as all the other chapters more or less could be switched around with the chapter tactics rule, especially if it could also affect the FOC; but really they could also be covered with formations which seems to be the more popular way to do it for GW lately anyway.

Space Wolves have too many unique units and equipment to just be thrown in with the Vanilla codex.

For crappy fluff and stupid ideas, Tyranids are even sillier than Space Wolves.

How so?
Nids and their fluff has always been top notch for me.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
All the space marine factions.

Take them all except grey knights, put them in one book. I exclude the grey knights because they're really the only one of them that seems to function almost completely differently in the background and such where as all the other chapters more or less could be switched around with the chapter tactics rule, especially if it could also affect the FOC; but really they could also be covered with formations which seems to be the more popular way to do it for GW lately anyway.

Space Wolves have too many unique units and equipment to just be thrown in with the Vanilla codex.

Yes, the Wolf Wolf Gun that shoots Wolfy Wolf Ammo of Wolfy Doom.

Martel732 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 n0t_u wrote:
All the space marine factions.

Take them all except grey knights, put them in one book. I exclude the grey knights because they're really the only one of them that seems to function almost completely differently in the background and such where as all the other chapters more or less could be switched around with the chapter tactics rule, especially if it could also affect the FOC; but really they could also be covered with formations which seems to be the more popular way to do it for GW lately anyway.

Space Wolves have too many unique units and equipment to just be thrown in with the Vanilla codex.

Yes, the Wolf Wolf Gun that shoots Wolfy Wolf Ammo of Wolfy Doom.

Helfrost weaponry is infinitely better than Bloody Blood Missiles, fired from Bloodships...

Seriously, the ONLY things added to the 5th ed SW's book were Wolfclaws, the Thunderwolves, and Canis Wolfborn.
The rest of the 'wolfy' stuff people enjoy bleeting on about was care of Jervis & co. from the 3rd ed codex and/or previous 2nd ed codex. (Wolf Standards, Wolf Priests, Wolf Scouts, Wolf-tooth necklace, Wolf pets, Wolf Guard, etc...)
Kelly didn't magically turn the Puppies into a running joke, unlike Ward who did just that with the Bloody Blood Angels and their Bloodomancy & Blood chalices, Blood Guard, Bloodfist armed Dreads & all led by Lord Blood himself.

Worst to play with:

1/ CSM : codex is too old and they really need some new stuff
2/ Orks: Fun to play in a friendly game, hard to play in a tournament.

Worst to play against:

1/ Eldar: I understand their gameplay and why they are so particular, but I think they need some serious work to rethink some rules that are just too strong.
2/ Tau: Again, I understand their gameplay, but they just sit there and shoot until there is nobody on the table except them.

Fluff wise it would be Tau closely followed by SoB, Salamanders, new SW [wolves riding wolves WTF] and new BT.

Ok well this is very dependant of fluff Vs. game.

Fluff-wise - GK/Inquisition. I like the idea of Daemon/Witchhunters but the fan base ultimately killed any sort of enthusiasm for me.

Game wise - Eldar. Mr. Kelly must have had some weird love fetish for the Farseer Sprite in DoW II and got a bit busy in some codex pages while taking a trip to the water closet to make them THAT powerful...

 Gamgee wrote:
With the new faq and clarifications in Dark Eldar by a mile from a rules perspective. There may be some niche coven lists but they will be so forgettable and one note compared to any army out there and not even good one note. More like desperate one note to try and make a non-army viable.

The Dark Kin got it bad.

Considering you don't actually play Dark Eldar, what would you know?

I have several lists, both Kabal and Coven, that cun run nicely against all things Marines, Tau (when not run full cheese), AdMech, Chaos and have completely obliterated Orks before. Though a long way from top tier they're still a pretty usable army and the FAQ only really hurt us if you relied on Trueborn in Venom spam.

I dislike spess mureens. They get all the cool new toys, very powerful, damn near everyone has the army so you fight a lot of cookie cutter netlists (in my meta) and their player mentality is fething horrific. With necrons they have a meh save and basically FnP in non decurian so I don't mind them too much

Side note, can you folks give me some reasons why there seems to be a lot of people saying SW are strong and have lots of cheese, my friend plays them and gets STOMPED every game (loses by 5+ every game)

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Side note, can you folks give me some reasons why there seems to be a lot of people saying SW are strong and have lots of cheese, my friend plays them and gets STOMPED every game (loses by 5+ every game)

Believe it or not, there are some people who play counter to meta. Meaning that they take what they like, rather than what would ROFLSTOMP their opponent. For instance, I play the Tau Gundam army. What people tend to forget is the first two words in the title, 'Mobile Suit'. I don't just stay in my deployment zone, and my opponents never seem to have much trouble getting into CC with me. . .

 Sidstyler wrote:
It's been 0 days since our last Tau hate thread.

That's because the Tau are an unsightly abomination and an unspeakably disgusting black mark against 40k that it's not even funny.

Why do people seem to not like the Tau fluff?
I like it, although Tau are my first army (besides dark vengeance when that was first released) and I always liked the fluff.
I also like the Eldar fluff but I don't like the Space Marine fluff and that's the only codexs I own and have armies for.
I like the "for the greater good" part of Tau...I mean they are communists basically and just take over every race hahah the Fsrsight stuff is cool and I like their subraces like Vespids and the Kroot.

Game wise I can see why lots of people hate on them though but I don't play competitively in 40k so no riptides for me lol

Traditio wrote:
That's because the Tau are an unsightly abomination and an unspeakably disgusting black mark against 40k that it's not even funny.

I believe the phrase here is "trying too hard". Commissar, take this Tau traitor away!

 Peregrine wrote:

Traditio wrote:
That's because the Tau are an unsightly abomination and an unspeakably disgusting black mark against 40k that it's not even funny.

I believe the phrase here is "trying too hard". Commissar, take this Tau traitor away!

Much as I dislike what he says, he should still be able to say it. But reasons rather than vitriol would be appreciated.

carldooley wrote:Much as I dislike what he says, he should still be able to say it. But reasons rather than vitriol would be appreciated.

Do I really need to rehash all of the obvious reasons?

Aside from their one-dimensional (and consequently OP) play style on the table?

Aside from the ridiculous, anime-esque appearance of their figurines?

Aside from the communist nature (and communist-glorifying nature) of the fluff?

Feth the tau and feth the horses upon which they rode in.

Traditio wrote:
Aside from the ridiculous, anime-esque appearance of their figurines?

So what? Tau kind of ripped off anime designs, other 40k stuff ripped off other things. It's not like GW really has any original ideas.

Aside from the communist nature (and communist-glorifying nature) of the fluff?

Tau aren't communists*. And even if you believe that they're communists you really have to be missing the point to think that they're glorifying anything. The Tau are the bad guys, just like everyone else in the setting. The only reason they look "good" is that they're pragmatic about killing anyone who stands in their path, instead of mindless rage-beasts like most other 40k factions.

*That honor goes to the IG, who drive around in Soviet APCs, live in Soviet-style gray concrete housing, fight in Soviet-style human wave attacks with their Soviet commissars standing in the back to execute traitors, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 carldooley wrote:
Much as I dislike what he says, he should still be able to say it. But reasons rather than vitriol would be appreciated.

FREE SPEECH IS HERESY. AN OPEN MIND IS AN OPEN DOOR TO THE DEMON AND THE XENOS. COMMISSAR, EXECUTE THIS TRAITOR!

 carldooley wrote:

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Side note, can you folks give me some reasons why there seems to be a lot of people saying SW are strong and have lots of cheese, my friend plays them and gets STOMPED every game (loses by 5+ every game)

Believe it or not, there are some people who play counter to meta. Meaning that they take what they like, rather than what would ROFLSTOMP their opponent. For instance, I play the Tau Gundam army. What people tend to forget is the first two words in the title, 'Mobile Suit'. I don't just stay in my deployment zone, and my opponents never seem to have much trouble getting into CC with me. . .

He plays TWC deathstar and knights so hes not 'nice' he just thinks everything is garbage than he has, and every other army is OP. I'm trying to figure out whats strong so he can actually have a 'good chance'. He focuses on tabling more than getting objectives and puts loads of points into silly things, such as tac squads and absolutely refuses any and all suggestions of getting transports.

It feels like every faction has at least one significant shortcoming that can be rightfully complained about OR is very powerful leaving a fairly large power gap between the weak codices and the strong which also can be rightfully complained about.

When it comes to fluff, I loathe and utterly despise the Ultramarines and Imperial Fists almost as much as I hate the gakky foul fethed racket emitting Canadians known as Rush. Then again, Honsou is my spirit animal and I sexually identify as Alpharius so yeah... That's probably just a genetic predisposition