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So, I was reading Daemonifuge the other day and, without spoiling too much, there's an Inquisitor named Septimus Grinn who goes undercover as a Black Templar to root out a traitor among a group of Black Templar. This seemed confusing to me. Wouldn't they notice very quickly if he was an ordinary human? Or was he a space marine AND an Inquisitor. He fights toe to toe with a Space Marine captain, which lends credence that he's an Astartes as well. Is this possible? When I think about it, it makes a certain amount of sense that the Inquisition would want members who are Astartes, to better keep an eye on the Space Marine Chapters. Of course, lots of Space Marine chapters highly value their independence, but some chapters have a cozy relationship with the Inquisition, and some have beliefs that are a lot more orthodox than others. Of course, this wouldn't grant them all access to all chapters (the Dark Angels and their successors in particular keep secrecy even within their own chapters, and wouldn't share with some strange marine). Still, it seems like a very interesting possibility to me, a marine who is also an Inquisitor.

What do you think?

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Inquisitors are recruited from the black ships, and, although they are not astartes, they are genetically enhanced to a similar strength, and can wear power and terminator armour.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/13 20:59:11


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 JamesY wrote:
Inquisitors are recruited from the black ships, and, although they are not astartes, they are genetically enhanced to a similar strength, and can wear power and terminator armour.

I don't know where you got that, but the Inquisition Codex states that an Inquisitor's Acolytes can come from all woks of life, and an Inquisitor's successor is usually one of his acolytes. Therefore, Inquisitors can easily be Space Marines if the Inquiisitor's mentor managed to get a Space Marine protoge.
   
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 Lord_Inquisitor_Doge wrote:
 JamesY wrote:
Inquisitors are recruited from the black ships, and, although they are not astartes, they are genetically enhanced to a similar strength, and can wear power and terminator armour.

I don't know where you got that, but the Inquisition Codex states that an Inquisitor's Acolytes can come from all woks of life, and an Inquisitor's successor is usually one of his acolytes. Therefore, Inquisitors can easily be Space Marines if the Inquiisitor's mentor managed to get a Space Marine protoge.


This makes sense when you consider that it's actually possible (though it throws the game balance out of wack) in games like Inquisitor and Dark Heresy (though not in 40k on the tabletop) for a Space Marine to fall into an Inquisitor's retinue. This actually sounds like it could make a very interesting story.

As far as Inquisitors being genetically enhanced, I've never heard that before. They have access to all the best toys, but physically, I've never heard of them being modified to anything near the level of a Space Marine.

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The Inquisition does have Space Marines of its own, like the Deathwatch and the Red Hunters, so it is not inconceivable.

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Nottingham

 Lord_Inquisitor_Doge wrote:
 JamesY wrote:
Inquisitors are recruited from the black ships, and, although they are not astartes, they are genetically enhanced to a similar strength, and can wear power and terminator armour.

I don't know where you got that


My mistake, I misremembered a snippet from the militarum tempestus codex that actually says the scions sometimes escort inquisitors to the black ships, not that they both come from there. I don't recall any fluff where an inquisitor had a space marine in his entourage, and it isn't an option in the codex. No reason why you can't make your own idea happen though.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/13 22:16:01


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avoiding the lorax on Crion

A Inquisitor can be augmented and upgraded humans but no way near a space marine as there nigh a different species of human .

Inquisition cannot give a human the same upgrades however hard they tried minus genesees

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 JamesY wrote:
 Lord_Inquisitor_Doge wrote:
 JamesY wrote:
Inquisitors are recruited from the black ships, and, although they are not astartes, they are genetically enhanced to a similar strength, and can wear power and terminator armour.

I don't know where you got that


My mistake, I misremembered a snippet from the militarum tempestus codex that actally says the scions sometimes escort inquisitors to the black ships, not that they both come from there. I don't recall any fluff where an inquisitor had a space marine in his entourage, and it isn't an option in the codex. No reason why you can't make your own idea happen though.


Back when Inquisitor was an actual, supported tabletop game which revolved entirely around playing an Inquisitor and his retinue in a sort of combination RPG-skirmish, they made a Space Marine model and stats, and the backstory for a sample marine character that was running with an Inquisitor's retinue.

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@ jhe90 Of course they could, they could give them the exact same upgrades as astartes if they wanted, including geneseed, and just train them as inquisitors rather than marines. For whatever reason they haven't done that. Perhaps with custodes as well they didn't want to dilute the idea of gene seed to much by having it everywhere.

Just to be clear, I don't mean that they could do it in the fluff as is, I mean that they could have written the fluff differently.

On topic though, they might not be as strong as an astartes, or as tough, but with the enhancements that they do have, and being able to wear power armour means that they would be able to pass for one, and hold there own in a fight (same ws/bs). Might be caught out if they removed their helmet though.


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@fallinq interesting to know, cheers for that

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/13 22:27:28


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Battle Brother Artemis of the Deathwatch, yes. A Blood Angel, I believe.

However, the truth is simply that Daemonifuge is old. It predates the majority of the Marine power creep and fluff.

He was also what these days would be termed a Radical, so he could have been using any number of cheap tricks to achieve his goals.



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Couldn't an inquisitor just request a marine for his or her retinue from the deathwatch? it seems like it wouldn't be common practice, but deathwatch is beholden to the inquisition, so it would make sense that they could occasionally be conscripted into missions for inquisitors, and inquisitors are given a lot of latitude in naming new inquisitors. So if an inquisitor dies on a particularly dangerous mission wouldn't it just be the logical choice to hand the rosarius over to the hulking astartes that has been their personnal bodyguard?
   
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An Inquisitor can walk up to any Chapter, point at a Marine and say "I'll take that one."

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 Psienesis wrote:
An Inquisitor can walk up to any Chapter, point at a Marine and say "I'll take that one."

Theoretically, that is true, but there are so many politics involved in such controversial actions that whether or not the Inquiistor would actually get "that one" is by no means certain.
   
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Maybe he was just huge like Hector Rex. Lol

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 Psienesis wrote:
An Inquisitor can walk up to any Chapter, point at a Marine and say "I'll take that one."
I would like to see an inquisitor try that with the space wolves.

An inquisitor might be able to bully around a second/third founding chapter without political clout but a first founding chapter is a no go.

First founding chapters are damn near immune to inquisitorial sanction.

   
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avoiding the lorax on Crion

godking wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
An Inquisitor can walk up to any Chapter, point at a Marine and say "I'll take that one."
I would like to see an inquisitor try that with the space wolves.

An inquisitor might be able to bully around a second/third founding chapter without political clout but a first founding chapter is a no go.

First founding chapters are damn near immune to inquisitorial sanction.



You better have alot of clout or alot of respect and good relationship with that chapter...
First founding is nigh imune yeah, too old with many many old alliances and long lists of those who owe them debts.

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I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
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 King Pariah wrote:
Maybe he was just huge like Hector Rex. Lol



"In his youth he
[Hector Rex] was subjected to similar genetic enhancement to that of a Space Marine, his physical body growing massively. He now towers over 8' tall, is heavily muscled and is in superb conditioning." Imperial Armour VII page 124

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/14 21:20:27


 
   
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avoiding the lorax on Crion

 Gashrog wrote:
 King Pariah wrote:
Maybe he was just huge like Hector Rex. Lol



"In his youth he
[Hector Rex] was subjected to similar genetic enhancement to that of a Space Marine, his physical body growing massively. He now towers over 8' tall, is heavily muscled and is in superb conditioning." Imperial Armour VII page 124


But I think they have to start young, not after. If he has same near imortality and such though?

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Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I have no clue how Dakka's moderation work. I expect it involves throwing a lot of d100 and looking at many random tables.

FudgeDumper - It could be that you are just so uncomfortable with the idea of your chapters primarch having his way with a docile tyranid spore cyst, that you must deny they have any feelings at all.  
   
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 Psienesis wrote:
An Inquisitor can walk up to any Chapter, point at a Marine and say "I'll take that one."


Unless the Chapter Master disagrees, in which case the Inquisitor can try to pressure through politics but ultimately can't order them to do anything they don't want to.

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 Gashrog wrote:
 King Pariah wrote:
Maybe he was just huge like Hector Rex. Lol



"In his youth he
[Hector Rex] was subjected to similar genetic enhancement to that of a Space Marine, his physical body growing massively. He now towers over 8' tall, is heavily muscled and is in superb conditioning." Imperial Armour VII page 124


Thanks!

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 Ashiraya wrote:
 Psienesis wrote:
An Inquisitor can walk up to any Chapter, point at a Marine and say "I'll take that one."


Unless the Chapter Master disagrees, in which case the Inquisitor can try to pressure through politics but ultimately can't order them to do anything they don't want to.


These are probably my favorite types of discussions on here because the only accurate answer would depend on which inquisitor did the asking and which chapter received the request. The Imperium lacks a real centralized authority structure internally in the upper echelons. Also jurisdiction is hard to regulate in their system and that leaves certain people at certain levels with a lot of flexibility but also a lot of grey area.

If the inquisitor asked he would have to have a good reason other than "Because I want one!"

and if that reason was a good reason, the CM would have to have a better reason than "Feth you!"

It also would come down to who has more resources at their personal disposal, because the authority to make that decision come directly from your ability to impose your will through force, and I would bet 99 times out of 100 the CM is gonna win that argument.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/16 17:48:40


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What the Inquisition can and cannot demand from the Astartes is a fiddly question, and it's at the core of the Blood and Fire novella...

At the very least it seems that by the end of m41 the Inquisition does not, on paper, have carte blanche to boss the space marines around in the same way they can turn every other institution of the Imperium to their whims - but they want to. They attempted to wipe out the Celestial Lions for questioning their authority, but couldn't do so in the way the Inquisition usually would - instead they had to resort to doing it covertly, leaving the message to the other chapters relatively clear: "Behold the ignoble fate of all who commit evil or do something the Inquisition doesn't like."

   
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I think we all know what happens when you ignore the Inquisition. That being said, I think the Inquisition can order the Astartes around willy nilly.

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Gathering the Informations.

Daemonifuge is relatively old and the fluff within shows it.
   
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 Furyou Miko wrote:

However, the truth is simply that Daemonifuge is old. It predates the majority of the Marine power creep and fluff.
When have the Space Marines power creeped? If anything, they've crept a little backwards with the GrimDark+1 twist a few years ago. Daemonifuge was 2002, midway through the game's third edition. Seems like a long time ago now, but it's only halfway in the 40K product timeline. Space Marine Chapters were turning the time on entire planetary campaigns in 1992, lol. There was no creep. It was "Space Marines are roided out sociopaths recruited from warrior cultures and hive gangs" to "Roided out super-soldier sociopaths inducted as child-soldiers", and it took about a year for that fluff to change. By the time second edition rolled around, Space Marines were more or less what they are today. Just three chapters turned the tide in the Second Battle of Armageddon with the Blood Angels singlehandedly slaying nearly half the Ork army, for example, whereas the Third War had something like 20 to grind it to a stalemate.

Daemonifuge's fluff is inconsistent because Daemonifuge is inconsistent. It's basically like the Ian Watson novels. The author just took some basic concepts, and said "Eh, this sounds cool. Let's roll with it."

 Psienesis wrote:
An Inquisitor can walk up to any Chapter, point at a Marine and say "I'll take that one."


This is somewhat overstated. Few Inquisitors would have this kind of authority, and they'd have to be positioned where they could do this, figuratively, metaphorically, or otherwise. Space Marine Chapters are rarely found hanging out at the Space Market waiting for some random Inquisitor to seem them loafing around and deputize them. It's a big galaxy with only a thousand Chapters. Space Marine Chapters tend to roam around looking for fights.

So, while in theory an Inquisitor can demand anything he/she wants, in practice their authority is fairly limited by circumstance much of the time. And one who routinely abuses that authority would likely face sanction from the Inquisition, since Space Marine Chapters are supposed to be out fighting the enemies of the Imperium in a manner befitting their training and force projection, and not merely acting as muscle for Inquisitors.

Marneus Calgar is referred to as "one of the Imperium's greatest tacticians" and he treats the Codex like it's the War Bible. If the Codex is garbage, then how bad is everyone else?

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 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
 Furyou Miko wrote:

However, the truth is simply that Daemonifuge is old. It predates the majority of the Marine power creep and fluff.
When have the Space Marines power creeped? If anything, they've crept a little backwards with the GrimDark+1 twist a few years ago. Daemonifuge was 2002, midway through the game's third edition. Seems like a long time ago now, but it's only halfway in the 40K product timeline. Space Marine Chapters were turning the time on entire planetary campaigns in 1992, lol. There was no creep. It was "Space Marines are roided out sociopaths recruited from warrior cultures and hive gangs" to "Roided out super-soldier sociopaths inducted as child-soldiers", and it took about a year for that fluff to change. By the time second edition rolled around, Space Marines were more or less what they are today. Just three chapters turned the tide in the Second Battle of Armageddon with the Blood Angels singlehandedly slaying nearly half the Ork army, for example, whereas the Third War had something like 20 to grind it to a stalemate.

Daemonifuge's fluff is inconsistent because Daemonifuge is inconsistent. It's basically like the Ian Watson novels. The author just took some basic concepts, and said "Eh, this sounds cool. Let's roll with it."

 Psienesis wrote:
An Inquisitor can walk up to any Chapter, point at a Marine and say "I'll take that one."


This is somewhat overstated. Few Inquisitors would have this kind of authority, and they'd have to be positioned where they could do this, figuratively, metaphorically, or otherwise. Space Marine Chapters are rarely found hanging out at the Space Market waiting for some random Inquisitor to seem them loafing around and deputize them. It's a big galaxy with only a thousand Chapters. Space Marine Chapters tend to roam around looking for fights.

So, while in theory an Inquisitor can demand anything he/she wants, in practice their authority is fairly limited by circumstance much of the time. And one who routinely abuses that authority would likely face sanction from the Inquisition, since Space Marine Chapters are supposed to be out fighting the enemies of the Imperium in a manner befitting their training and force projection, and not merely acting as muscle for Inquisitors.


An Inqusitor's authority extends, ultimatly, as far as he can MAKE it extend.

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 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I think we all know what happens when you ignore the Inquisition. That being said, I think the Inquisition can order the Astartes around willy nilly.


Sometimes inquisitors can just disappear. But if Dark Angels ask you to do something, you should obey. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Crusade_of_the_Ophidium_Gulf

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 Generalstoner wrote:
Artemis was a Mortifactor, not a Blood Angel.


It's funny, because I wanted to say Ultramarine, but I looked at a picture of him and it looked like he was covered in winged bloody teardrops, so I wrote blood angel. XD



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I don't remember that at all from Daemonifugue... did they ever finish the series?

Anyway to answer the question at had my philiosophy is always 'it depends'. The IMperium has a million worlds, 10,000 years of history and all things are possible.

How could an Inquisitor pose as a marine?

1-He's just big. He's a big guy from a big planet, he can't spit acid or eat brains but he's a big guy and he trained to pass himself as a marine for this mission.

2-He's enhanced. The Inquisition has (almost) infinite resources so surely someone, somewhere could find or put together an enhancement program that would turn an ordinary adult human into something close enough to (or better than) a marine.

3-They started young. Some INquisitor somewhere started giving implants to some kids to create super warriors answering only to him. One of them grew up to be an INquisitor himself.

4-He was a marine. It must be very, very rare but I've never heard of a prohibition on Marines being anointed Inquisitors. Perhaps he started out on an Inquisitors retinue, and after decades or centuries realized this was his path and was promoted to Inquisitor.

5-Trickery. The armor was padded, the Inquisitor used polymorphime and other drugs to bulk up, holograms, etc.

 
   
 
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