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So now that Death From the Skies removed Skyfire from the vast majority of flyers, is ground-based Anti-Air the way to go? Tau, obviously, couldn't care less about airborne Skyfire, but what about other armies? Especially now that FMCs will rule the skies with no good way to combat them in the air.

I know I am looking at possibly retiring my Stormtalons and picking up an Anti-Air Defense Force worth of Stalkers and Hunters. The Stalker has enough shots to make it not terrible against ground targets, and a squad with Ignores Cover will wreck a flyer or two a turn.

Nobody is running Death From The Skies in the same way nobody ran Escalation. Your Stormtalons are fine.

Table this discussion until 8th.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Nobody is running Death From The Skies in the same way nobody ran Escalation. Your Stormtalons are fine.

Yeah, but I don't mind having a contingency plan for if it becomes the norm.

Lets hope it doesn't become the norm. Game is complicated as it stands and GW is trying to turn into Starwars X wing something...

The idea is nice but the amount of time it will take will make the game 2 hours more.

A real damn shame since I love the attack patterns that came out in that book... Stormtalons with 4+ invuls, IWND and Interceptor/ ignores cover / Tank Hunter all sound really good.

Dogfighting can get royally stuffed but I really liked the rest of the book ...

Ground based anti-air isn't any better or worse than it was.

For instance Hydra Flakk Tanks are bad, taking away the Imperial Guards other anti-air assets doesn't make them better. It just makes the Imperial Guard worse.

Now I don't know much about the Space Marine Stalker but from what I have seen it is decent anti-air, it was just never taken because Storm Talons could do its job and more. Since the Storm Talon can't sky fire anymore the Storm Talon isn't as useful, but the Stalker is just as good or bad as it ever was.

What does this mean for people who play DftS?
The most probable out come I think will happen is,
1. Your like SM(assuming the SM fighter is good, I don't know if it is or not) or Eldar and have good fighters you can take, so your fighters provide anti-air but can still contribute against ground targets.

2. Your like SM(assuming the SM fighter is bad) and have decent ground based anti-air so you can use that for your anti-air.

3. Your like nids and chaos deamons and only used FMC anyway so no change.

4. Lastly you could be like IG or Necrons and have no good options for anti-air, so you don't bring any and hope the flyers don't do too much but are otherwise screwed.

The Stalker is very cost-effective flak. However the Stormhawk is no slouch either.

It's a bit of a toss-up. 150 points with change either gets you a battery of two Stalkers or a single Stormhawk with a Skyhammer launcher.

The former are tougher but easier to shoot at. The latter is killier and can potentially blow a flyer to kingdom come before it ever makes it onto the board.

The main thing is that the Stormhawk can still shoot up stuff on the ground (albeit at BS3). Unlike a stormtalon, though, you're paying 10-15 points more and hitting less due to (a) being a fighter and (b) losing strafing run, so it's not as clear cut as it was.

Stalkers still aren't bad because skyfire still lets you shoot at skimmers and jetbikes at full BS (i.e. scatter laser jetbikes), but I think the 'hawk is probably a better use of your points. It's a lot tougher point-for-point than a 'talon as long as you keep your nose pointed the right way, and the fact that the Icarus has interceptor means it's not totally screwed if it gets bounced itself.

Necrons do indeed have a problem with dogfighting. IG could be worse off - once Forgeworld update IA Aeronautica (which they've unofficially said they're doing) as the Lightning and Thunderbolt are decent fighters. Certainly the heresy-era thud is a beast, so I'd hope the 40k one gets some of the same treatment (especially updating skystrike missiles to work like kinetic piercers).

Just a small correction, but Jetbikes can't be shot at full BS unless DFTS changed Skyfire.

Ground-based anti-air is actually pretty good since most GTA's have interceptor on them. Which means you get a chance to shot the plan out of the sky before it can do something in the shooting phase. This is great for everything except bombers. With it being the other player's turn, he will get to bomb you before you get to fire your interceptor. There are alot of good options for AA.Personally I use a Mortius Pattern Contemptor dreadnought with 2 assault cannons. Its 12 str 6 ap 4 shots with skyfire, interceptor, and rending. The Stalker is good options as well. Gives you some tactical flexibility to deal with 2 fliers at once. There is also the Deredeo Pattern dreadnought can be a very good choice as well.

Ork planes are made of paper and would die in numbers for enemy aircraft brought down. Orks can't bring in numbers because their planes cost too many points.

Thankfully our ground based anti air is pretty good. It would take one heck of a good ork plane to make the Traktor Kannon obsolete. 36" range is a bit limiting but it's an area the enemy fighters will try to avoid. S8 AP3 Heavy1 Skyfire Traktor.

Any glancing or penetrating hit on a zooming flyer automatically causes Immobilized in addition to the effects of the glancing or penetrating hit. Against swooping big creatures if they take a wound they suffer a -3 to grounding roll. Up to 5 of them can be in a unit using the grits BS3. Only need the one hit so I find three is fine.

idk about all of you but my land raider excel and deredeo have been enjoying there day in the sun, 4 planes so far have made a trip to the grave, one even became a fiery death coffin

 ionusx wrote:
idk about all of you but my land raider excel and deredeo have been enjoying there day in the sun, 4 planes so far have made a trip to the grave, one even became a fiery death coffin

Oh sure, run your super special exclusive Land Raider in my face! I do want to get one of those, it would open up a lot of options for me.

Skitarii have easily the one of the best AA tanks in the game in the Onager. It ignores cover, interceptor, and skyfire with one of the missiles being AP1. Will reliably shred a plane a turn.

 thekerrick wrote:
Skitarii have easily the one of the best AA tanks in the game in the Onager. It ignores cover, interceptor, and skyfire with one of the missiles being AP1. Will reliably shred a plane a turn.

Yeah, that is pretty harsh. One of the Black Shirts was telling me about the Onager once and I had to talk myself down pretty harshly from buying another IoM army. Stalker tanks can do similar things when in squadrons, but the Onager is a beast all by itself. I am still thinking of replacing my two Stormtalons(in a Raptor Wing) with Stalkers.

The AA Contempor has a lot going for it now as it's one of the few units in the game that can choose to skyfire. With plastic Contemptors there really is no reason for mehreens not to field them, as 12 assault cannon shots hurts *everything*.

malamis wrote:
The AA Contempor has a lot going for it now as it's one of the few units in the game that can choose to skyfire. With plastic Contemptors there really is no reason for mehreens not to field them, as 12 assault cannon shots hurts *everything*.

Yeah, I have half a mind to buy two of them and convert one into an Twin Kheres Assault Cannon Contemptor Mortis. It seems like it would be fairly simple. Just cut one of the Assault Cannon arms off below the...shoulder and glue it on facing the other way. Not entirely sure, but it might necessitate chopping the Power Fist arm apart to get it looking right.

But, knowing my luck, they would release a GW Plastic Contemptor Mortis right after I did this.