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In an effort to make vehicle a bit better, I propose the following change to how vehicle take Hull Points:

Instead of automatically taking an HP for every Glance/Pen, HPs are only taken if a "Damage" result is rolled.
Once a Pen or Glance is caused, roll on the Vehicle damage chart (-2 for Glances, +1 for AP1, no bonus for AP2)
The Chart stays just as it is, however "weapon destroyed" and "immobilized" also cause 1 HP

In this way, the tactic of "chip away it's HPs" is a bit less advantageous and encourages the use of weapons that can actually Penetrate armour.
It also makes vehicle suppression a tactic, since many armies have weapons that just Glance.

Thoughts?

Thanks, because Tyranids with all their AP4 and - weapons really needed the nerf.

Here's a better idea (IMO).

Every vehicle in the game doubles it's hull points.

No more glances, can only take off Hull Points witha penetrating hit. Anything that causes glances (Haywire for instance) just rolls on the damage table instead of stripping hull points.

The explodes result is changed to Major Impact, where you loose and extra 2 HP and only if this reduces the vehicle to 0 does it blow up.

I don't mind that, though if you're doubling hull points, you could just leave glances as they stand, and make any pen remove 2HP. (Then keep the Critical Hit/Major Impact effect, where you lose an additional 1-2HP and go boom if that leaves 0 or less.)

It's a lot harder to glance down a Rhino with 6HP, if you're just hosing it with burst cannons, say - but bring in the cyclic ion blasters, and they'll notice real quick, when each pen takes off two.

8HP Ghost Arks or Land Raiders could be hard to deal with, without that. Also, since you mentioned Tyranids, Haywire is one of their better ways to handle vehicles. Also, Necrons with Gauss (they have a fair shortage of high-S low-AP weapons, actually. The ones they have are nasty, but they don't have very many, and so rely on sanding HP with Gauss.)

 Imateria wrote:
Thanks, because Tyranids with all their AP4 and - weapons really needed the nerf.

Here's a better idea (IMO).

Every vehicle in the game doubles it's hull points.

No more glances, can only take off Hull Points witha penetrating hit. Anything that causes glances (Haywire for instance) just rolls on the damage table instead of stripping hull points.

The explodes result is changed to Major Impact, where you loose and extra 2 HP and only if this reduces the vehicle to 0 does it blow up.

Wow, feedback noted. How about Glances are only -1 to the chart. That way they can still cause HPs on a 5-6.

And FYI, Nids would still benefit by making like every vehicle (and any passengers) snap-fire, since you can guarantee Shaken or stunned results (unlike now)

 Galef wrote:

 Imateria wrote:
Thanks, because Tyranids with all their AP4 and - weapons really needed the nerf.

Here's a better idea (IMO).

Every vehicle in the game doubles it's hull points.

No more glances, can only take off Hull Points witha penetrating hit. Anything that causes glances (Haywire for instance) just rolls on the damage table instead of stripping hull points.

The explodes result is changed to Major Impact, where you loose and extra 2 HP and only if this reduces the vehicle to 0 does it blow up.

Wow, feedback noted. How about Glances are only -1 to the chart. That way they can still cause HPs on a 5-6.

And FYI, Nids would still benefit by making like every vehicle (and any passengers) snap-fire, since you can guarantee Shaken or stunned results (unlike now)

Yes, but how would they do in a Kill Point Game against an AM tank line?

One thing I've noticed is that once you start changing core aspects of the game you really need to change everything because it's impossible to do this in isolation and expect all armies to still work fine. Look at my previous post, I just inadvertadly nerfed Necron really really hard against vehicles.

Yep, which is why we have discussions like this: to work out the kinks. For example, I didn't think about the effects on Nids, or the fact that my change would make Gladius armies god-like.

I guess my main goal was to change the rules as little as possible to slow down the "HP stripping tactics" without invalidating them and to encourage the increase use of stuff like Lascannons, Fire Prisms, Missile Launchers, etc

I think the most effective quick-fix patch would be to double the HP of basically every vehicle (with maybe a select few exceptions) then make pens inflict 2HP. Not *perfect*, but as a quick-and-dirty patch, it's not bad.

Probably makes the Wave Serpent OP, due to its shield, however. It could be one of the exceptions, though it'd make the other tanks on the same hull look mighty weird. Maybe just +1HP for fast skimmers and flyers... (Maybe just +1 for skimmers in general, but OTOH, Venoms and Raiders kinda need some help, and nobody ever tried to say that Land Speeders are too tough. OTOH, 6HP Hammerheads and 8HP Ghost Arks seem a little mean - AV13 is actually fairly tough to punch.)

Double HPs is a bit too much. As you said it makes Wave Serpents ridiculously OP and can you imagine 10+ FREE Rhinos in a Gladius with 6 HPs each!!!

How about +1 HP?

What is the need for a damage table at all unless it is also used for MC and GMC's

Just scrap it.